Hi all. Ok, I know this is small potatoes, but something tonight caused me to start thinking about a larger issue that I grappled with. This particular instance, I think I've got a solid read on. It feels fishy and I can list reasons why. So, *not* paranoia.

But it got me to thinking. So often I find myself wondering whether I'm being paranoid or simply cautious. Or perhaps overly cautious? I wonder if I miss opportunities because I can't really tell the difference and err on the side of assuming if it sounds even so "lofty" as "not crap", it must be out of my league or "something's up", even if I can't produce any evidence. (Yeah, there's probably some self-esteem issues in there too. ) People always say I'm too smart for the jobs I go for. But is it simply lack of self-esteem or is it paranoia/caution run amok? It's probably worth noting that many have expressed incredulity at some of the things I distrust/am paranoid of.*

There was another job-search incident from a couple weeks ago, and even though I don't think I was compromised, it chewed me up half the night (and beyond) worrying over how I "should have seen it" and worrying over every possible implication imaginable, even though there really wasn't much to suggest anything was amiss. This kind of thing really feeds my paranoia to the point I'm afraid to trust or act on much at all. When it doesn't fall into the "if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is" catagory, how do you tell? How do you tell the difference between caution and paranoia?

Is this something others of you worry about, and if so, any advice for being able to distinguish one from the other?

*(please excuse my dangling participle)

[blueoctober]

As far as being too "smart" for a position, I would prefer to look at it as not having a position that engulfs my life. I am happy in my career and though it doesn't flex my brain very often, I enjoy it, and even if I'm not 100% there are parts of my job that I can still do. Most importantly when I'm done work I'm not exhausted and still can have my life outside of work. I have had the other type of career and I'd rather have my life outside of work.

As far as being too cautious, this could be a self esteem issue. It also could be a control issue. Perhaps you aren't stretching yourself out of fear of the unknown? I struggle with trying to control things, and this has held me back in some aspects of my life. Mostly in not being in the moment and enjoying myself completely. My therapist has helped me with that. Do you see a therapist?

Ruminating over what you see as a "Mistake" can be a function of the illness or it can just be a habit. I struggle with this too and it never has a positive outcome. When I start to do this I say "STOP" in my mind to break the cycle.

Hi blueoctober! I should probably elaborate a bit (even though it's a sidebar, as you'll see below). I'm mid/late 40's, and despite many many jobs over the years, have had only one full time job, one job with benefits (same one). I've never had a paid day off. Or even a chair. They've been minimum wage realm, usually hard, physical, on your feet jobs. So, far from high powered, they suck the life out of me not from demands on my life, but from sheer exhaustion and the worry of how I can ever keep this up as I get older. And from the dearth of people to have a half-intelligent conversation with. I cannot really conceive of the term "career", not having done any one type of thing consistently or for more than a short while.

BUT, most importantly, I really regret putting the whole job thing in the post. Since that is something I'm trying to deal with bigtime right now, it got in there, but it's a rabbit trail, and I realize now it obscured the point of my post(!) (That happens a lot for me.) (But got back to it too late to edit out.)

(I have a weird relationship with fear of the unknown. I have a history of making huge, life-altering leaps with nary a clue what is on the other side. Solo adventures, cross country/cross ocean trips, but then afraid to walk outside sometimes. Yeah. Weird. I will be seeing a PHMNP on Tuesday, which is both a relief and a dread. Rumination. Yes. I've tried the STOP thing with occasional success.)

So really, my real question is about distinguishing paranoia from caution. There are instances where paranoia was probably in high gear (like thinking my ex was going to poison me, even though it's totally not his style). Those times, when against all reason, I get a thought and can't let go, sure that it is somehow right (and in that instance, being afraid to eat), and won't even speak it, being so sure that I'm right and can't let them know that I know. But there are many other times when the line is blurrier. When people laugh at the things I'm convinced are suspect, it makes me wonder if I simply don't have a very good set of bearings in this area. Is there some kind of checklist or something that can help me sort it out?

[leah0306]

hi, Innerzone I too feel like im second guessing everything, wondering if im even thinking rationally, I do have self-esttem issues.... but i wonder if im always seeing everything distorted, "thru a looking glass darkly" i wish it was easier, its great your able to work and i wish you all the luck in finding one that is right for you, take care mdf

[PT52]

I totally agree with blueoctober - I used to go only for jobs that I felt fit my intelligence and skills, and ended up stressed and overworked and miserable. I've also accepted jobs that I thought I was being paranoid about and found out my gut feeling was right on. Now I have a low-level job where I can choose if I want to move up the ladder or stay right where I am and I really enjoy being able to leave it at the office when I go home. I balance the mindlessness by creating intellectual challenges in my private life - I take classes, write, play the piano, read a lot. It can be as simple as seeing how many questions I can answer on Jeopardy.

Telling yourself to STOP is a good tool to use. It's a cliche, but it's true that there's no use crying over spilled milk. I know perfectly sane people who do the same thing - they worry so much about losing their job that they don't spend enough time DOING their job and end up getting fired.

So...therapist, definitely. And if you find yourself afraid to try something, ask yourself what's the worst thing that could happen. If it's not going to kill you or cause you to go to jail, or hurt someone else, then give it a go. That way you can learn what situations you should avoid and which ones you're holding back from because of your paranoia. And you certainly won't miss any opportunities if you try most everything.

[blueoctober]

Innerzone; That is more clear. Yes if you are not happy in your job that can suck the life out of you. The making of huge-life altering decisions without putting thought into it may be a function of mania or hypomania. I know I have come up with some doozies, but luckily my hypomania never last very long, so I come to my senses before making the jump. Perhaps a good next step as far as finding a career is seeing a career counselor. You could get some testing on what types of jobs are better suited to you. My brother (who isn't diagnosed, but is quite symptomatic), struggles with the same thing. He is extremely intelligent, but tends to set his expectations very low on what jobs to pursue. Part of it is definitely a self esteem issue; we both had horrific childhoods, but I also think it's a safety mechanism. If he doesn't stretch himself he won't fail, but he too is very burnt out.

As far as thinking others are talking about you etc. to me this may be paranoia. It comes down to who cares? If you don't value their opinion and that's the conclusion I would come to from your line of, "And from the dearth of people to have a half-intelligent conversation with. " then why even think about it. It's human nature to think that people are thinking, talking about oneself etc. etc., but most people are so wrapped up about themselves others don't even come on their radar. I think where the line is drawn between paranoia and just normal insight is when it affects are lives negatively. i.e. if we are using too much energy thinking about such things, if it's affecting our self esteem etc.

I'm not sure what PHMNP is, but for me my therapist has helped me gain perspective when I "know" another person's actions, words etc. were about me. Her line is "you will never know, so don't waste your energy thinking about it".

[BNLsMOM]

I asked my T this question once.

His answer is that something like thinking that your ex is about to poison your food is paranoia. In my case, I feel as if neighbors will laugh at me, or worse see the condition of my house when it is messy and report me to CPS. I will see landscapers outside and think that they are really there to kill/hurt me. I go to stores and think that the security personnel are watching me behind the cameras ad will think that I am stealing and come after me. When I used to work, I would swear I could hear bosses and co workers whispering about me, every time they went into a closed door meeting without me I knew they were discussing when they were going to fire me.

I think what you describe with your relationship with the unknown sounds just like being bipolar to me. Sometimes, you feel grandiose and can do anything, so you do, and other times you are frightened and feeling vulnerable and down. Paranoia can be a big part of bipolar. For me it mostly happens when I am down or mixed.

Hypervigilance, which is not exactly paranoia, often happens for me when I am coming out of a paranoid episode. I feel as if every thing I feel is about to become a symptom and sometimes, I will misinterpret things that people do or say or question if I did the right thing in a situation.

Let me know if this made sense. I feel like it didn't...

Hmmm. Posting is good. Thanks for helping me work out exactly what parts are of concern. It might seem obvious, but I usually have too many thoughts going on to express it well, that is, um, get to the point.

I don't think people are talking about me. (That's good! ). I'm far far far more likely to feel invisible. Which in some sense, is real. But that's a whole 'nother thing.

Was just looking up some definitions of paranoia. While I don't think people are "out to get me", I do often feel that the universe is against me. But NOT because it has any focus on me, just that I don't seem to have the whatever it is that it takes to negotiate the universe very well. Like I missed getting in that line.

Where I seem to get more confused is in definitions like, "Paranoia is an unfounded or exaggerated distrust of others, sometimes reaching delusional proportions. Paranoid individuals constantly suspect the motives of those around them..." (but w/o the "out to get them" part). Yeah, that applies. Now, thinking about it, the above may play into this. Being aware of my lack of skill in "negotiating life", I do distrust others, worrying that I'll be taken advantage of. When I see the energy people put into strategy and planning, I feel like a piece of fluff floating down a river with no idea where I'm going. I've seen those "reality" shows and they completely horrify me. While much of their behavior is despicable (by most everyone's standards), there is a grain of truth in the social manuevering that so many people do do. It is so alien to me, yet I know it very much exists, so yeah, I do distrust people/situations. Heavily. Like I'm totally out of my depth in what are considered pretty normal situations.

I definitely have big issues about fearing information will be used against me. But at least that one has some basis. I learned early to keep my mouth shut and not reveal anything that could be used to hurt me. (Lol, are we starting to see why diagnosis took so long and how much trouble I have being thorough with admitting symptoms? ) The only reason I'm pretty upfront here is the anonymity factor. And even then I can get freaked out sometimes.

Anyway, I'm pretty well starting to see that most of my paranoid thinking isn't clinical per se. So I guess it might be more accurate to say, "Where does caution cross the line into unfounded or exaggerated?" Is there a measuring stick?

(PMHNP is Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner. They can manage/prescribe meds and tend to see you for a more extended time than a P-doc would. Less training, but also less expensive. It's my only real option at this point. But I've heard good things in general about them, so we'll see!)

[sane1logic1]

I'm just an observer of humankind (including myself) so my opinion isn't special, so ...
Your life with a major relationship stress and prolonged work stresses is mega stressful. So, I think you are a big survivor and you need to give yourself all kudos for that.
In stress, the attention does wander somewhat.
I think of thoughts like, 'they are discussing me in that meeting', as like watching a B movie or reading a pulp novel, somehow entertaining at the time, what helped me was to persuade myself that perhaps one percent or ten percent or 100 per cent of the meeting was concerned with normal business (!!!) by a process of probability or logical deduction i.e what they (the people in the meeting) are paid to do.
As for the 'poisoning' thoughts they are probably of the same kind. Only if you were to engage the authorities against the "would be poisoner" would that be paranoia.

It's a question of ownership.

If we describe our daft 'thoughts', others are going to think the worst of them, if they however are just wandering attention, there is no reason to describe them to others (except if that is going to give them a kind laugh not at our expense).

Ask the 'cinema projectionist in your head' not to show those daft reels!
In a typical day the 'projectionist' is checking with me several times a day and saying, 'was that sensible enough yet!!!'

Hoping that reassures you somewhat, but do listen to other opinions.

If an interviewer says you are too smart it means they feel threatened without good cause, they would just prefer a person like themselves.
I found I needed to learn a little more when smartness isn't relevant, but just blending into the scenery. And when to just walk away whatever people were saying.

Carry on surviving!
Best wishes.