[crab76]

I saw two Pdoc's in the past year. First one said possibly Bipolar II. I didn't believe him because I have nvr experienced mania or hypomania.

The 2nd Pdoc said BPD. Which I have that for sure. No doubts there as I fit 8 out of 9 criteria.

But part of me still believes I may be BP II. How to I figure this out? Is there testing you can go through?

I've read back through the archives about Hypomania. Some ppl say it's just a really good mood. I have periods of that for sure. I have major mood shifts sometimes day to day. I'll feel normal, happy, energetic, wanting to do things. Then the next day I'll fall into a black whole and not want to see or talk to anyone or go anywhere. I have been like this my whole life.

It seems like most people just know it's Bipolar. But I feel I fall in a grey area. Does anyone else relate? Why haven't these Dr's done tests on me? If there are any tests. How did you all get your diagnosis? Just through talking in therapy?

One more thing... I have been on SSRI's in the past and I didn't go into a manic state. Does everyone go manic on SSRI's if your bipolar?

[Miss Laura]

Hey Crab76,

There is no test for you to do personally.... it is all to do with your experiences. Example you can go to your doctor and tell them about your depression or mania and they can take it from there which would of happened if you have been possibly diagnosised with either BP or BPD.

I got my diagnosis via my GP's and Psychiatrist from what I had told them and from their observations.

I was on Anti-Depressants until I got the diagnosis and I was manic only a few times on them. When I was on AD's I was in sheer depression though

[lad007]

It's pretty common to have different diagnoses either over the years, or from different docs.
But does it really matter if they call it a or b? Should we just focus on living the life we want within our limitations, and not let it define us? They have to call it something but none of us fit into little boxes, I have BPII but also can have symptoms that fit into some of the other diagnoses, so instead of wondering and worrying, I just try to adapt and focus on symptom and life management.

[expressiveone]

I have can be down in the dumps upon waking, 2 hours later be on top of the world and 2 hours later be depressed and laying in bed staring at the wall so I definitely can relate with you....however I would have to say that it is hard for doctors to pin point exactly which "type" of bipolar disorder you have, especially since this is a progressive disorder(so I have read). For me it has been much easier just being okay with dx "bipolar affective disorder" and focusing on getting the right meds adjustment and balancing my life so I can thrive. I think we all are changing and evolving so it is just easier to explain my symptoms and let the dr take it from there ya know? Although, I can understand why you would want to have a specific diagnosis just so you "know" what is going on. Also, I think it depends on the person whether you swing into mania after taking a SSRI. I know I did when I first started on Effexor(although at the time I didn't know I was manic...I just thought I was feeling ALOT better...haha!) My pdoc added risperdal to the effexor and that worked for a while and now I am off the risperdal and taking lamictal along with effexor and feeling a little bit better (but it varies day to day). I may have to add on AAP, time will tell for me( I have a tendency toward mixed states).

Well the treatment for bipolar vs BPD is different tho is it not? That's what I would be concerned with. Just making sure that your symptoms are being treated and releived. I really wish there was a blood test or such that would make things alot easier.

I've been dx with bipolar 1 for 16 years and then this year they were questioning if it was possibly schizoaffective. Maybe it is or maybe it's just a massive progression of my illness. They settled on bipolar 1 with psychosis NOS for now. That's fine with me. The same drugs are used either way. As long as my symptoms are being controlled.

So just focus on your symptoms. If you want a clearer picture you could start keeping a mood chart to track them. This would give you and your pdoc a better picture. Your pdoc can also supply you with the charts.

[Secretum]

It seems like most people just know it's Bipolar

It may seem that way, but that's not the way it actually is. Some people here still haven't accepted the dx fully-I still question it at times, despite the fact that 3 pdocs all agree that I have bp II. A lot of people take years to fully accept that they have bp (or any mental illness), to the point where their treatment is delayed. Many people on this board were misdiagnosed and misdiagnosed before someone finally discovered that they had bipolar ...so as confident as we may seem with our diagnoses, none of us just 100% knew we were bipolar as soon as we started having symptoms.

It can be really hard to distinguish bipolar from BPD. I don't know (and would love to know, so if anyone has this information, tell me) if BPD mood swings can cause euphoria, or if BPD mood shifts are just between depression, irritability, and anxiety. if BPD can include brief periods of high mood, then maybe you only have BPD. If BPD doesn't include periods of elevated mood, or if your highs are a lot more intense than the average borderline's highs, then perhaps you should continue to explore bipolar a little more. My hypomanic mood is a bit above simple happiness; I feel elated, like my entire body is charged with this wonderful energy. I doubt that a normal person could feel that good without drugs. And my hypomanias are relatively mild! So someone who describes hypomania as just "normal" or "happy" may either have been misdiagnosed, or not have a full grasp on what normal happiness feels like because his/her mood has been very dysregulated for a very long time.

Dr. Phelps is a psychiatrist who specializes in bipolar II, and his wonderful website helped me to start to accept my diagnosis. He has even written an article on the differences between BPD and bipolar: http://www.psycheducation.org/depression/borderline.htm

There are several scientifically validated bipolar quizzes out there, but many (most notoriously the Mood Disorders Questionnaire, which pdocs often use in assessment) will give someone with BPD a positive screen because of shared symptoms, like impulsivity and mood swings.

I hope something here helps. Good luck sorting this all out; it's a difficult process!

[faerie_moon_x]

Originally Posted by crab76

I saw two Pdoc's in the past year. First one said possibly Bipolar II. I didn't believe him because I have nvr experienced mania or hypomania.

The 2nd Pdoc said BPD. Which I have that for sure. No doubts there as I fit 8 out of 9 criteria.

But part of me still believes I may be BP II. How to I figure this out? Is there testing you can go through?

I've read back through the archives about Hypomania. Some ppl say it's just a really good mood. I have periods of that for sure. I have major mood shifts sometimes day to day. I'll feel normal, happy, energetic, wanting to do things. Then the next day I'll fall into a black whole and not want to see or talk to anyone or go anywhere. I have been like this my whole life.

It seems like most people just know it's Bipolar. But I feel I fall in a grey area. Does anyone else relate? Why haven't these Dr's done tests on me? If there are any tests. How did you all get your diagnosis? Just through talking in therapy?

One more thing... I have been on SSRI's in the past and I didn't go into a manic state. Does everyone go manic on SSRI's if your bipolar?

When I was first diagnosed I told my pdoc I don't remember any specific mania, but I do remember times when I was really off the wall hyper. I guess it's that whole "Life of the party" thing, when I was in my late teens. I mean, I thought I was the life of the party, but really I was that extremely hyper girl bouncing off all the walls. And it wouldn't end when the party ended, then I would crash days later. She said that was probably mania, but can't say for sure. Then she said to have a bipolar dx you only need to have had one episode of mania ever, even if you never have another one, which I thought was odd.

Bipolar is actually a physical illness causes by biochemical imbalances in the brain and nervous system. Sadly, although science knows this, they don't have any testing for it yet. Like diabetes is a biochemical imbalance of the digestive system, and they have physical tests for it with blood and urine. But so far that's not so for bipolar, depression, and schizophrenia. But they are working on it. But because of it, bipolar does respond to meds, although everyone responds differently to different meds.

Borderline Personality Disorder is a personality disorder, but there is talk that it may have genetic features as well. No meds but therapy helps. There is no cure for either bipolar or BPD. And bipolar and BPD mimic each other. Actually a lot of things do mimic bipolar, including ADD, which is what can make it so hard to diagnose.

Best thing is to keep a mood tracker and watch out for triggers. Learning to observe yourself and getting the observation of others on your behavior is really helpful.

[crab76]

Thanks for all the responses. It's all very helpful.

I guess I just need to address my symptoms. I feel MUCH better with barely any mood swings, irritabiliy or anger on my Abilify. So some of my symptoms are helped greatly on this med. I'm trying to wean off it due to weight gain though. My new Dr wants me to consider prozac. So I guess if I go that route I'll know pretty quick if I need a mood stablizer or not. I think I will.

It's upsetting because I had bad reaction to lamictal & triliptal. So that's why I have taken Abilify. But it makes me gain weight. UGH I can't win.

I just wish I would know for sure. I have had moods when I'm super hyper and happy. But I like it when I feel that way so I can't tell if it's hypomania. I hate when I feel agitated, anxiety and angry... or depressed, sad, isolating & crying. So the happy moods are a blessing to me.

I have another new Dr I'm seeing now because I moved. I am going to work with her alot to try to figure this out. I hope to get stabilized so I can be more productive in my life and enjoy it. I feel like I'm wasting my life away unhappy, confused, empty and lost. It's a sad existence.

[Dave255]

Brain scans can clearly show a difference between moods a person is experiencing.



http://www.auuuu.com/health/medicine/mentalillness/

I don't know if this has been proven in large studies. Even if it has theirs still a problem.

If a person isn't manic/hypomanic state it wouldn't show up in a brain scan.

[faerie_moon_x]

I know certain brain scans can show something for psychosis too in people with schizophrenia. Maybe someday MRI will be cheaper and we can go in and have a scan if we're feeling off.

[ultraviolet way]

one thing that sticks out to me, crab, is - denial of diagnosis..this actually IS a symptom of bipolar! even if you come to accept the diagnosis, you're probably going to doubt it again. and again. and again. at least that's my experience.

with that said, i agree with other posts, your focus is best placed on your well-being and what that means for you as an individual. it is important to have an accurate diagnosis so there can be an accurate treatment plan. however, it's a bit like hitting a moving target. we are fluid and so are the disorders that affect us.

there are tests (written) for scaling your depression and mood(hamilton rating scale for example). you must be honest when completing them as the results are 100% dependent on your feedback. also, (good) docs are analyzing your non-verbal communication as well during an appt or session...appearance, mannerisms (eye contact, etc) so it is important to have a good relationship with someone you can trust. they will see your moods often when you can't.

i've learned that extreme irritabilty is the leader of my mood states to be wary of. i usually slip into a hypomanic, mixed or depressive mood if irritability is too strong if i am not prepared.

i do a lot of reading to help supplement my thoughts about what docs tell me as my trust level is almost always nil. right now i am reading "welcome to the jungle-everything you ever wanted to know about bipolar but were too freaked out to ask" hilary smith. sometimes i can relate to what i read and sometimes not at all.

my experience (so far) is that my bipolar is more like a spectrum. sometimes i fit into the criteria, sometimes i fit multiple criteria and sometimes i'm just fine. my point is, bipolar to me is ever changing and i constantly learn about it. i refused my diagnosis for years. i have recently gotten my depression under better control (therapy, TMS) and see the world through brand new eyes and am learning about the mood disorder. i absolutely believe i have one.

most importantly, always remember that moods change. they pass. it is often so hard to believe that when you are stuck in one, especially depression.

good luck!

[crab76]

Originally Posted by ultraviolet way

one thing that sticks out to me, crab, is - denial of diagnosis..this actually IS a symptom of bipolar! even if you come to accept the diagnosis, you're probably going to doubt it again. and again. and again. at least that's my experience.

with that said, i agree with other posts, your focus is best placed on your well-being and what that means for you as an individual. it is important to have an accurate diagnosis so there can be an accurate treatment plan. however, it's a bit like hitting a moving target. we are fluid and so are the disorders that affect us.

there are tests (written) for scaling your depression and mood(hamilton rating scale for example). you must be honest when completing them as the results are 100% dependent on your feedback. also, (good) docs are analyzing your non-verbal communication as well during an appt or session...appearance, mannerisms (eye contact, etc) so it is important to have a good relationship with someone you can trust. they will see your moods often when you can't.

i've learned that extreme irritabilty is the leader of my mood states to be wary of. i usually slip into a hypomanic, mixed or depressive mood if irritability is too strong if i am not prepared.

i do a lot of reading to help supplement my thoughts about what docs tell me as my trust level is almost always nil. right now i am reading "welcome to the jungle-everything you ever wanted to know about bipolar but were too freaked out to ask" hilary smith. sometimes i can relate to what i read and sometimes not at all.

my experience (so far) is that my bipolar is more like a spectrum. sometimes i fit into the criteria, sometimes i fit multiple criteria and sometimes i'm just fine. my point is, bipolar to me is ever changing and i constantly learn about it. i refused my diagnosis for years. i have recently gotten my depression under better control (therapy, TMS) and see the world through brand new eyes and am learning about the mood disorder. i absolutely believe i have one.

most importantly, always remember that moods change. they pass. it is often so hard to believe that when you are stuck in one, especially depression.

good luck!

This is very helpful.
I do need to start watching my moods. I get very irritable sometimes where I feel a rush inside me of anger over little things. It's hard being a girl because I always was so quick to blame alot of my mood swings on PMS. But it's much more than that. I realize that now. It's gotten much worse as I age. I'm 35 now. Suffered my whole life.... always thought I was just super sensitive & moody.

Also.... I'm a cancer (hence my Crab username) and cancer's are known for being moody. hahaha! I always thought I was just very true to my sign. lol! I laugh because it's obviously much deeper than a stupid astrological sign.

Thanks again for all your comments. I appreciate it. No one else understands. I think my family & friends are in more denial than I am. They all think that with therapy I can get off these meds. But If this is more than just BPD then I have to accept meds as part of my life.

[crab76]

Just an update on this. My New PDoc has confirmed my diagnosis of BPD & Depression. She does NOT think I'm bipolar.

Part of me is very happy because... with the BPD, hopefully one day (if I can get out of this depression) I will be able to come off meds and manage with therapy.

But is it weird that another part of me was thinking that if I had a Bipolar DX it would make some sense out of all my mood swings. Like it's not my fault... just a chemical in my brain making it all happen. I guess that's why I always 2nd guess the Bipolar Dx. I'm looking for something for a cause.

With BPD Dx it's basically all ME and my messed up thinking that's causing all my anguish! UGH! I'm in no way wishing I had the bipolar dx.... but I just don't understand how I'm doing this all to myself.

Anyways.... I just wanted to thank everyone here. This thread really helped me alot to understand what hypomania really is.

Be Well! ;-)))

[ultraviolet way]

there can be a very fine line of distinction. and you don't want to take unnecessary meds!

has anyone recommended a therpay for you called dialectical behavior therapy (DBT)? it has (and continues to) helped save my life. marsha linehan created it for BPD as she herself has, for people who were not getting relief from anything else. look it up if you haven't heard of it. it can be very effective if you commit to it.

good luck!

[crab76]

Originally Posted by ultraviolet way

there can be a very fine line of distinction. and you don't want to take unnecessary meds!

has anyone recommended a therpay for you called dialectical behavior therapy (DBT)? it has (and continues to) helped save my life. marsha linehan created it for BPD as she herself has, for people who were not getting relief from anything else. look it up if you haven't heard of it. it can be very effective if you commit to it.

good luck!

Yes... I was in DBT for a cpl months. But I moved so I had to find a new Dr. Problem is this new Pdoc I just saw doesn't do DBT so I think I should find someone else. Guess I should have asked that before going for two appts.

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by crab76

Just an update on this. My New PDoc has confirmed my diagnosis of BPD & Depression. She does NOT think I'm bipolar.

Part of me is very happy because... with the BPD, hopefully one day (if I can get out of this depression) I will be able to come off meds and manage with therapy.

But is it weird that another part of me was thinking that if I had a Bipolar DX it would make some sense out of all my mood swings. Like it's not my fault... just a chemical in my brain making it all happen. I guess that's why I always 2nd guess the Bipolar Dx. I'm looking for something for a cause.

With BPD Dx it's basically all ME and my messed up thinking that's causing all my anguish! UGH! I'm in no way wishing I had the bipolar dx.... but I just don't understand how I'm doing this all to myself.

Anyways.... I just wanted to thank everyone here. This thread really helped me alot to understand what hypomania really is.

Be Well! ;-)))

I know how that feels - my last pdoc jumped to the BPD conclusion (which was later reversed, I've been re-dx'd as bipolar several times...) and I kinda had a similar reaction.

But that's great about the better prognosis! You can probably find a different therapist than your current pdoc for DBT without stopping going to your pdoc. Unless you're getting both meds management and therapy from the pdoc? In any case, good luck!

[venusss]

one thing that sticks out to me, crab, is - denial of diagnosis..this actually IS a symptom of bipolar! even if you come to accept the diagnosis, you're probably going to doubt it again. and again. and again. at least that's my experience.

so when you are diagnosed, even falsely, you cannot be undiagnosed, because doubting it is a denial? That sounds bit scary.

glad you got it sorted out crab.... and your fault or not, you have to live with it.... so isn't it better to be in power of your life without having to count on substances? (not saying with BP you are powerless, but you get what I mean).