[venusss]

Yeah, another of "those" threads. Philosophizing, challenging the mainstream, anarchist thinking ahead. If you for some reason find these unsupportive, dangerous and quesitonable, exist now.

May you find comfort in kitties too.........

Maybe you heard of the Icarus project, which is one of the too few project that promote mad pride, informed choice, empowerment and the like when it comes to mental health.

The mainstream model is lacking. I said that many times, will not repeat it. Yes, I know psychiatry saved lifes and can make one's life better. But wrecked others.... so not give them free pass. After all under Mussolini trains ran on time and Gaddafi made Libya thrive economically. Not saying Psychiatry is evil per se, but take profit driven industry, add incompetent people working for it and throw vulnerable people in it.... and you have mess in making.

I for myself don't consider my issues "illness". Obstacle? Sure. Is it dangerous at times? Hell yeah. But I see positives to it. And it is who I am.... maybe my spontageity is partly driven by manias, maybe my creative insights is driven by both depressed and manic phases... who knows. But if it is so... why would I want a "cure"? Sure there are times when I am asking deities to please just give me time to breathe... but retrospectivelly it often makes sense.

I have always excited healers and shamans. I believe I am giften in this way too, just learning to work with it.... not to get overwhelmed by all the energies and visions and whatnot. It can get intense.... but it seems to gotten better with time. I still wanna live in the world and be part of it.

Maybe we all are different for reason.... it's just about finding out place in the world. I wish more people were understanding of this. Or maybe (and I plead guilty on this account) if we all weren't creating some artificial and shared "normal" and were more ourselves.... we could breathe freer.

Your thoughts? Ideas, experiences, whatnot?

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

Yeah, another of "those" threads. Philosophizing, challenging the mainstream, anarchist thinking ahead. If you for some reason find these unsupportive, dangerous and quesitonable, exist now.

May you find comfort in kitties too.........

Maybe you heard of the Icarus project, which is one of the too few project that promote mad pride, informed choice, empowerment and the like when it comes to mental health.

The mainstream model is lacking. I said that many times, will not repeat it. Yes, I know psychiatry saved lifes and can make one's life better. But wrecked others.... so not give them free pass. After all under Mussolini trains ran on time and Gaddafi made Libya thrive economically. Not saying Psychiatry is evil per se, but take profit driven industry, add incompetent people working for it and throw vulnerable people in it.... and you have mess in making.

I for myself don't consider my issues "illness". Obstacle? Sure. Is it dangerous at times? Hell yeah. But I see positives to it. And it is who I am.... maybe my spontageity is partly driven by manias, maybe my creative insights is driven by both depressed and manic phases... who knows. But if it is so... why would I want a "cure"? Sure there are times when I am asking deities to please just give me time to breathe... but retrospectivelly it often makes sense.

I have always excited healers and shamans. I believe I am giften in this way too, just learning to work with it.... not to get overwhelmed by all the energies and visions and whatnot. It can get intense.... but it seems to gotten better with time. I still wanna live in the world and be part of it.

Maybe we all are different for reason.... it's just about finding out place in the world. I wish more people were understanding of this. Or maybe (and I plead guilty on this account) if we all weren't creating some artificial and shared "normal" and were more ourselves.... we could breathe freer.

Your thoughts? Ideas, experiences, whatnot?

how soothing !

and I really mean that....

awesome baby!

[lad007]

I tried to squash the person that is me to create an artificial normal as you put it and it is much more freeing to be who I am. I am more sensitive than most but do see it as a gift as it allows me to feel compassion. We should try to embrace the fact that we are different and often more insightful and feel very deeply, that is also a gift.
Thank you for your post.

[Lauru]

I appreciate your point of view. For me, I have needed medications and therapy to be who I really am. When I am depressed or manic I feel terrible and do things to hurt myself. That is not me. My meds helped me find myself. On the other hand, meds can be a really bad thing when you are on the wrong ones, or are on too little or too much. There are times I truly feel like a guinea pig. But the professionals I work with are truly exceptional in that they are real people and treat me with respect and admiration. So while I completely appreciate your views, they just don't hold true for me. But best of luck to you. I wish you only the best

it's time I put in some encouragement.....

I like the polar bears

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

...mad pride...

... Not saying Psychiatry is evil per se, but take profit driven industry, add incompetent people working for it and throw vulnerable people in it.... and you have mess in making.
Maybe we all are different for reason.... it's just about finding out place in the world. I wish more people were understanding of this. Or maybe (and I plead guilty on this account) if we all weren't creating some artificial and shared "normal" and were more ourselves.... we could breathe freer.

Your thoughts? Ideas, experiences, whatnot?

I'm sure you know we often are on different planes in many regards (which, hey, that's what makes the world go 'round as they say, right? ), but I think it's as good a time as any to mention that I'm totally cool with that (in case I've left you with the wrong impression, because I probably have). I am a HUGE believer in people being self-determinate. To the point of having extremely unpopular views on some things related to that. Corallary to that, I do not believe in pushing an agenda or unbiddedly telling people what they should do -- which many people found disconcerting in my parenting(!) I can listen and share my experience, but ultimately, it's his life. But wow, have I digressed. Onto the thoughts!

"Mad pride". I like this. Our brains are wired the way they are wired, so why should we be ashamed of it? (I certainly don't run around telling people I've got BP, because, yes, people can be very judgemental and ignorant. But INSIDE? It is what it is. Huge pain, but I've also had benefits of this wiring which have provided the only real satisfactions I have of myself. So pride. Why not?)

On the second, personally, I think ANY time people are involved, it is a mess in the making(!) Imperfection is the nature of existance. There are no exceptions. Living the realities of this is as exasperating to me as to anyone, but realizing this has come to help me be more understanding and accepting and let go of all sorts of unrealistic expectations. It's simply how the varied aspects of human nature play out for better or worse. Took awhile, lol, but it has saved me a lot of grief. Everyone (and definitely any group endeavor/institution) is flawed. In individuals, I often find this endearing. Far more relatable, that's for sure(!) For instance, how people often view celebrities (of any sort) and are disappointed and even damning when something comes to knowledge that is less than the unrealistic expectations/paragon status people put on them. My primary "idol" was not perfect for sure. To me, the good and the bad are hopelessly endearing, because they are deeply relatable to me. This may seem to have strayed a bit, but it's all part of the same mindset to me.

"Creating artificial "normal""... I can be guilty of this, but more often than not, I'm not. (After people get to know me a bit usually.) Mostly because being "normal" is not my nature. I don't even realize I'm doing it because it has always been my nature. Sometimes it amuses people (or frightens them -- I do try to avoid that), but nearly always perplexes them. "Where's she gone now? What is she on about?". The blank look, the avoidance (unpredictability unsettles them), has definitely caused pain, but I do remember a point where I had tried to fit in too much, and was miserable. It led to a conscious moment of thinking, "Yes, a lot of people have rejected me over the years because they think I'm weird, but it's who I am, and if my company is ever enjoyed it is when I'm being goofy, so I might as well just be myself. I'm odd, that's ok, and anyone who doesn't like that can just f*** off!" Works for me as well as anything else ever has.

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by Innerzone

"Creating artificial "normal""... I can be guilty of this, but more often than not, I'm not. (After people get to know me a bit usually.) Mostly because being "normal" is not my nature. I don't even realize I'm doing it because it has always been my nature. Sometimes it amuses people (or frightens them -- I do try to avoid that), but nearly always perplexes them. "Where's she gone now? What is she on about?". The blank look, the avoidance (unpredictability unsettles them), has definitely caused pain, but I do remember a point where I had tried to fit in too much, and was miserable. It led to a conscious moment of thinking, "Yes, a lot of people have rejected me over the years because they think I'm weird, but it's who I am, and if my company is ever enjoyed it is when I'm being goofy, so I might as well just be myself. I'm odd, that's ok, and anyone who doesn't like that can just f*** off!" Works for me as well as anything else ever has.

Wow, you're singing my song!

I generally take the pragmatic view that anyone who doesn't want to be around me as I am probably isn't worth my time. I can't act "normal" if I try because I never have been! I was always encouraged to be my own person, even if that's a bit off-center (and then some...) I get the impression that my friends appreciate this about me - it's an endearing quality, I guess.

I don't know how to pretend to be normal. Who is it that you would be emulating? None of the " normals" that I know are really that similar, no one seems similar enough to me to categorize them into a group. What qualities equal normal? This is really confusing to me. And the more I think about it the more confusing it becomes.

I don't walk around and tell everyone what I am thinking, and feeling. And I can only imagine most other people do the same. So how do we know who or what normal is? I don't really think such a thing exists.

I've yet to meet someone yet who has ever said " yes I think and feel like I "fit right in".

When I was a kid and I was experiencing psychosis, I thought that it was something everyone had and just didn't talk about it. Of course I didn't know then that it was called psychosis. I thought tho, it must be normal.

Do we really know anyone who is "normal"? I don't, so I am very curious if others do?

[AniManiac]

Originally Posted by Anika

Do we really know anyone who is "normal"? I don't, so I am very curious if others do?

I think when people say "normal" they really mean "average."

I know some average folks. I don't know if I'd call them normal.

Haha Ani, I consider myself to be average. Oh dear. My bf does have a hard time relating to me and talking about my experiences with me as it scares him. Maybe I am fooling myself into thinking my experience is average.

[unaluna]

Well, it's like the joke:
He: Would you sleep with someone for a million dollars?
Me: yeah, sure!
He: Would you sleep with me for $100?
Me: I'm not a prostitute!
He: We've already established that you ARE, we're just settling on a price.

The point being: a LOT of things you take for granted today are not "natural" - refrigeration isn't natural; automated transportation isn't natural; heating and air conditioning isn't natural; running water and electricity and cooking gas aren't natural; blood pressure medicine isn't natural; surgery isn't natural; etc etc etc.

I LIKE being able to sleep at night, and not having voices going constantly in my head during the day, and not being weighed down with dread. I'm still me, I'm still plenty weird, I am not hearing any complaints that I am too effing normal from anyone! Ahem!

ps I meant that was WITH meds? where are these magic meds that DO make people normal and unweird or whatever, that people are so against? I would love to try those! sigh!

[Lauru]

I prefer the term unweird or typical to normal. There is no normal. Normal is merely a mathematical concept. Some people are weird, wome are unweird or typcial. But I must say, I much prefer the company of people deemed weird by the masses.

But what is weird? What is typical? I am soley asking for my own benefit. I have definitely been called weird by some, and deemed normal by some.

[venusss]

weird is what makes people suprised and makes them wonder? Typical is probably... expected and predictable.

dunno.

Originally Posted by Anika

...Do we really know anyone who is "normal"? I don't, so I am very curious if others do?

Good question of course! I agree with the others about it being a concept of falling within norms, ie. mathematical concept, which is, of course, the bell curve. But working in the kitchen today, I was thinking about this. Here's another take: I don't think about normal in terms of defining normal. (Wha? ) For me it's been more a experience of reaction. When one gets the puzzled look, wrinkled brow, the tilted head, etc (not to mention outright "you are sooo weird!") that people tend to do when they think something is bizarre... and it happens a LOT, in every sort of circumstance? Yeah. And this may seem a strange thing to mention, and I hope no one takes offense... but I'm inclined to not include high school (or, yikes, jr. high) in this. To be positively blunt, too many at that age are far too quick to don the dismissive face, or the judgemental, catty comment or whatever --almost as a tool of survival and worse, takes place in a nearly self-contained claustrophobic environment. It's for most people the most cliquey and catty time of life to endure, wouldn't you say? Because of this, one would get a skewed perception. Soooo many people feel weird at that time, but it's the phase and the environment and reflects far less reality than it feels at the time.

Originally Posted by Lauru

... I much prefer the company of people deemed weird by the masses.

Me too.

[RapidFlyer]

As I read this thread through, I realized that recently I have been trying too hard to fake "normalcy". I am going through rapid fire drug changes and coping with helping out friends and having to function in the real world.

Rather than being myself and running with that, which is ever so much easier, even when it does get the strange and odd looks I am exhausting myself. There is no fitting in anyway.

I needed this reminder.

Thanks everybody.

[Tosspot]

Anika you're probably just an average bipolar!

[Trippin2.0]

I've given up on trying to be normal, or how I like to call it APPROPRIATE. There are times when i'm overwhelmed with emotion, ( I spent 2 Fridays crying my eyes out at work) and you know what? Screw what my colleagues thought/think. I needed an emotional release, and no, I didn't tell them about my dx. I used to give the fake "I'm fine" to friends and wear tons of makeup to reinforce my mask. NO MORE, If anybody asks I give an honest "pretty fudged up today" but when i get an uncomfortable response i add "d0n't worry you're not expected to fix it". So yeah, to some extent, I'm embracing my madness.

[Trippin2.0]

I've given up on trying to be normal, or how I like to call it APPROPRIATE. I feel that as long as I'm not harming anybody, who gives a fudge how I act. There are times when i'm overwhelmed with emotion, ( I spent 2 Fridays crying my eyes out at work) and you know what? Screw what my colleagues thought/think. I needed an emotional release, and no, I didn't tell them about my dx. I used to give the fake "I'm fine" to friends and wear tons of makeup to reinforce my mask. NO MORE, If anybody asks I give an honest "pretty fudged up today" but when i get an uncomfortable response i add "d0n't worry you're not expected to fix it". So yeah, to some extent, I'm embracing my madness.

[Lauru]

Originally Posted by Anika

But what is weird? What is typical? I am soley asking for my own benefit. I have definitely been called weird by some, and deemed normal by some.

I guess I was just trying to make light of it all, because really, when it comes right down to it, we are who we are inside. Sometimes others we let see our insides, sometimes we don't. No one is weird or typical, or atypical. We are all unique and different and it is a wonderful, beautiful thing. And you my dear Anika, are wonderful and beautiful!

[BlueInanna]

Venus said:
I for myself don't consider my issues "illness". Obstacle? Sure. Is it dangerous at times? Hell yeah. But I see positives to it. And it is who I am.... maybe my spontageity is partly driven by manias, maybe my creative insights is driven by both depressed and manic phases... who knows. But if it is so... why would I want a "cure"? Sure there are times when I am asking deities to please just give me time to breathe... but retrospectivelly it often makes sense.

I have always excited healers and shamans. I believe I am giften in this way too, just learning to work with it.... not to get overwhelmed by all the energies and visions and whatnot. It can get intense.... but it seems to gotten better with time. I still wanna live in the world and be part of it.

Maybe we all are different for reason.... it's just about finding out place in the world. I wish more people were understanding of this. Or maybe (and I plead guilty on this account) if we all weren't creating some artificial and shared "normal" and were more ourselves.... we could breathe freer.

Hi Venus,
Since I was raised in a home of undiagnosed bipolars, it is sortof normal for me. My parents encouraged my creativity. But of course at times we all walked on egg shells so as to not set dad off into a bad mood. I didnt know that most families were more "stable". I still dont know and no desire to compare how enriched or bland others' lives may be.

Now that i know we have this "thing" bipolar.... I view it as a thing like part of my personality, not a disease or an illness, my choice to view it as such. Yes, it really can be dangerous when we get depressed or manic, I know all too well from tragedies in my family.

I think that the mood swings and extremes can be explained by brain chemistry. But I also believe that we are more sensitive to energies and to the unseen. I began working with meditation and energy work in my 20's, to help me deal with my anxiety about the energies i could feel, visions, etc. Still baby steps and a work in progress.

But yes, i believe we could be here for a reason, for times of change. And our paths are all very different and i dont expect any to be very easy. For me the biggest challenge is keeping a schedule cuz i will throw myself off balance when i don't sleep regularaly. My mind is on superbuzz right now, but i know my physical body needs to sleep or i'll get myself sick, won't make it to work etc. I did take the sleeping pill tonight (5 - 6 hrs ago) cuz I could feel the insomnia coming on... but it hasnt worked yet ughh. i will try meditation and see if i can relax and get some sleep, there's still a few hours until dawn.

Thanks for the topic, please post more. I find it very interesting.

[Trippin2.0]

I don't consider myself ill at all... I'm just wired a bit differently, and therefore have to be more aware of my emotional state... And I agree with BI, great topic Venus, keep it up.

[theGirlNextDorm]

This is certainly an interesting, and I think valid in some ways, proposition. However, as a person with bipolar 1 (full-blown mania), I would definitely not enjoy living off of my lithium pills. When I was manic, I was delusional. I believed all kinds of things which I now know were not really, truly happening. I fell in love with a much-older friend of mine, more so than I've ever been with anyone (with humiliating consequences). I posted super-creative stuff on Facebook constantly and wrote a lot of poetry. I bought too much music on iTunes. Was all of this bad? No, but for the most part, it was not conducive to the life that I enjoy leading. A life full of poetry and music and romantic interests, but in some form of control. I believe God lets things happen for a reason, and while I often wish I had never gone through bipolar (especially the depression), I feel I have learned so many valuable lessons. Still, like I said, I personally could not function in a rational, stable way with the help my psychiatrist has given me through lithium. I'm still me, just happier.