[Nammu]

I've really confused about whether or not am truly bipolar. I was dx PTSD, DID, not sure if that was with anxiety or if the anxiety is part of the PTSD, but I had major depression. I've had episodes of depression since I was 9, at least 9 was the first time I thought about killing myself. I was acting strange enough that my parents took my to the clinic but since no one asked me any thing I did not get dx back then(the 60's) flash-forward I'm 27, or 28 and they tell me I have all of the abouve and give me anti-depressive meds. Because I was very underweight they decided to go with the older tricyclic in the hopes I would gain weight, and benzos. I became psychotic and o/d on all my meds. They give me anti psychotics and different tricyclic, I get manic and they try again, I get a seizors disorder from the od and they tell me I'm bipolar and add lithium. I try again. This routine pretty much takes my life away for 7-10 years and I finally leave the state and stop all medication.

I'm still getting therapy but I refuse to take any anti depressants. About three years ago despite the fact my Psych Advance Directive states NO antidepressants a intern thats subbing prescribes a antidepressant(yes I know-I should have been watching and looking up what I was being given) I became manic and the first time in 12 years or so I end up in the hospital.

I say I have major depression with medicine induced mania, the Dr's keep saying I have bipolar?

In all that time off medicine or only on benzos and propranal I was never manic except the time I was on an antidepressant. Has anyone had any experience with this or run across anyone else who has had a problem with this? I don't ever want to end up like I did for that period I time when I was doped up on psych meds with no life, just in and out of hospitals. Somebody told me it doesn't matter, but my fear is Dr's who think bi polars have to be medicated and I've been doing good except for two bouts with depression. I don't understand how becoming manic from a pill proves I'm bipolar?

Oh, yes, Sidestepper, and welcome to the forum.

Some people are antidepressant intolerant--some are resistant to chemicals, period.

You may definitely be thrown into mania by a medication, even a small dosage if you are sensitive to it. You're fortunate that you are alert to this and will inform doctors that you cannot take certain medications.

How's your diet? Do you indulge in sodas, chocolate, tea (some of which have caffeine), use alcohol, or eat a lot foods that react with acid residue in digestion? If so, make some changes in your diet. You might help the depression by doing so.

Take care.

[Moose72]

Going manic on an antidepressant happened to me a few times. Its a sign of bipolar and that you don't just have depression.

[cocoabeans]

I went manic on antidepressants but, that isn't why I was diagnosed bipolar, in fact, the psychiatrist who did the most recent diagnosis (yea, I've been diagnosed multiple times with this, long story) made a point to ensure that I had had manic episodes without antidepressants.

So what if doctors think people with the bipolar diagnosis must take medication? Unless you've done something that removes your rights, you have rights to refuse meds and you can even drop those doctors and start fresh with new ones who don't know your history (though could very well lead to the same conclusion but, still...you are not required to take drugs).

[Nammu]

Originally Posted by genetic

Oh, yes, Sidestepper, and welcome to the forum.

Some people are antidepressant intolerant--some are resistant to chemicals, period.

You may definitely be thrown into mania by a medication, even a small dosage if you are sensitive to it. You're fortunate that you are alert to this and will inform doctors that you cannot take certain medications.

How's your diet? Do you indulge in sodas, chocolate, tea (some of which have caffeine), use alcohol, or eat a lot foods that react with acid residue in digestion? If so, make some changes in your diet. You might help the depression by doing so.

Take care.

Nope-I don't drink soda unless I'm very dehydrated and ill. I read a book years ago-before I was dx, called sugar blues. Cut sugar out of my diet and my mood was much better, thats what I'm trying hard to do again now. No sugar, no refined foods, thinking about nixing wheat too. Red meat has been gone for years. I've never been able to tolerate alcohol. I don't like feeling the buzz, I rarely ever finish a drink, currently can't drink with the meds I'm on, no lost. If I could afford to I would buy organic everything, fish too.

Smart girl, Sidestepper,

You've done many good things for yourself.

Removing grain could be very helpful, particularly if you are sensitive to gliadin in wheat.

Take care.

Sorry to be totally lazy and just copy an earlier post I made, but this issue comes up a fair bit and... why re-invent the wheel, right?

This is covered in the DSM-IV. Med-induced do NOT count towards dx. That doesn't necessarily mean that one doesn't meet enough other criteria, simply that that type of thing doesn't count.

Criteria for Manic Episode (DSM-IV, p. 332)
E. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other
treatments) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).

Note: Manic-like episodes that are clearly caused by somatic antidepressant treatment (e.g., medication, electroconvulsive therapy,
light therapy) should not count toward a diagnosis of Bipolar I Disorder.

************
Criteria for Hypomanic Episode (DSM-IV, p. 338)
F. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication, or other
treatment) or a general medical condition (e.g., hyperthyroidism).

Note: Hypomanic-like episodes that are clearly caused by somatic antidepressant treatment (e.g., medication, electroconvulsive
therapy, light therapy) should not count toward a diagnosis of Bipolar II Disorder.

*********
Same disqualifier in depression:
Criteria for Major Depressive Episode (DSM-IV, p. 327)

D. The symptoms are not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general
medical condition (e.g., hypothyroidism).

E. The symptoms are not better accounted for by bereavement, i.e., after the loss of a loved one, the symptoms persist for longer
than 2 months or are characterized by marked functional impairment, morbid preoccupation with worthlessness, suicidal ideation,
psychotic symptoms, or psychomotor retardation.

*************
*************
(P.S. Yes, I know that it can be an indicator, and that "direct" and "clearly" might be tricky to determine, but still very much think it is useful, if not incumbent, to go to the official resource on the matter.)

Hope that helps, sidestepper!

[Blue Poppy]

Hi Sidestepper,

I have asked myself the question you have posed many times. I was hypomanic for about four months last year. It started from a combination of effexor and wellbutrin. When I cut the dosage and weaned off of these meds, the hypomania left. So, it really makes me wonder if my diagnosis is correct.
I do recall, well before my diagnosis, periods of great interest and productivity in the midst of depression. I just remember thinking that the depression was finally lifting and I was getting better, only to have it return.
Nonetheless, I am not sure if it really matters as I think my treatment would be the same regardless............. mood stabilizers due to the multiple episodes of depression that I have had.
I have been in the medical field for quite some time and I have seen human error or many occasions, so I do think it is always good to question things.......

[Nammu]

(((Innerzone)))

That does help a lot. Thank you. I've taken the tests and if I eliminate the years I was drugged by the friendly Pdoc's then they all say no mania. But in my T's chart is a workbook I did years a go I describe what it is like being manic and how much I like it (I mean yeah, before it gets out of hand it's great for a depressive-I liked myself!) They say thats proof, but I was on antidepressants and it goes round and round.

I kind of feel like I need to start over someplace where there are no records of me. But where ever you go now they will just get the records from one office to another. What I need is someone with listening skills and on SSDI insurance in my state I'm not sure I'm going to find that. I'm pushing the issue right now because I called for a mental heath deputy to come and help me last Thursday, instead, 3 policemen showed up with misinformation and they did not get the memo from my T that I did NOT require a hospital. I needed resources, so I could get to my appointments. Before I told them what happened the guy was set before I open my mouth-he had already made up his mind. I was on a hold and in the hospital, the doctor there is franticly shuffling my papers trying to find psych meds. I'm on propraninal for anxiety and topermax for the depression which isn't doing much. He wanted to put me on lithium and lamictal, and is mumbling about not letting me out until I ....(whats the the word shrink speak for cooperate)

I got him to agree if my T called I could leave--he thinks he has it covered because no way can I call--I'm deaf and they have no phones for me to use(ADA violation). I had one of the other patients call my T and explain that they had not listened to her, I'm in the hospital and they are going to keep me unless she calls. She calls on Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning a really mad Pdoc let me out. As long as my dx is down as bipolar in this state I won't feel safe. They're number 50 so they can't get any worse. I've already reported the hospital for ADA violations and DR has taken the case. Being poor and MI in a red southern state can be hazardous to your health. Man I need sleep!

[Victoria'smom]

There are pdoc's out there that will listen. I'd start from scratch. I want as little medication as possible that makes me functional. My pdoc has been very careful to only put me on medication that I agree to. It doesn't help if you are not willing to take it. I'd really as your T what she would do in your situation. I ask my pdoc that all the time. You could also have bp II which predominantly depression. Best idea is to start from scratch.

[faerie_moon_x]

It is very common actually for people to be diagnosed with major depression and then go manic, which is how they discover that it is bipolar and not depression. The reason is that usually in mania/hypomania people don't seek help because they feel good, especially if they've been depressed for a while. We recently had a patient who had a depressed psychotic episode and went to the hospital. They put him on antidepressants and four days later he was in our office over the moon with happiness and full of plans, ideas, full of energy and elation. All I could think was "oh no... ." We had to inform his psychologist.

I was depressed through my childhood and teen years far more than when I was happy, so at 18/19 when I went manic with psychosis I thought I was "cured" or had overcome depression. I had no idea I was having a major psychotic episode that lasted about five years. So, of course I didn't seek help at that time although I really needed it, because I felt happy and good. (And at the same time although everyone around me was well aware of my delusions and hallucinations, no one did anything.)