how bad is life for the 'normal' person

Dan, by "normal", do you mean a mentally well person or a person without any mental or physical diseases?

Unfortunately, that's the other part of life. This is what I have learned, Dan.

"No one cares enough about anyone else to take responsability for them." and the people who do take on teh responsability of others become very angry and resentful towards them. i'm not talking kids. I'm talking adults who have to take care of other adults because that adult refuses.

It's not healthy for anyone. And it's not normal.

I learned this, because when I was in some serious **** no one did a damn thing for me. No one cared. Not even my own dad. I have learned that if I don't fight for myself no one else will. It sucks, but it's life. And it's our society.

a person with no physical or mental ailments. preferrably mentally well, but with no ailments... why wouldn't they be?

I just wanted to say that having a physical ailment really affects the quality of life. Take my ex with debilitating pain and no mental illness - I would not want to trade places with him; he is very stoic about the pain and I would have been at the end of my rope with it. I also would not want to be asthmatic; back when I still got upper respiratory infections I would get into almost a state of panic when I could not breathe through the nose - I would be frightened as hell if I had asthma. I prefer bipolar. I would not want to be morbidly obese - I'd rather be bipolar. Same with diabetes, lupus, RA, MS, cancer, TB, and what not. I'd rather be bipolar. I know it is easy for me to say this because I have found medications and wellness strategies that work very well - my bp is well managed - but I still want to say this. I'd rather be bipolar.

Well, Hamster, I haven't found wellness or medicines to help me, but I would also rather have bipolar than those other things.

I wouldn't want any physical ailments either. My wife's mom has lupus and my wife has fibromyalgia.

Hmm well I have asthma, and what they now suspect is lupus, and celiac. I don't honestly know, but I think I would pick bipolar over serious physical illness in my case. I have a lot harder time managing physical illness.

I agree with a good bit of what others have said, to an extent. And I've had some physical condtions (Sleep Apnea/Anemia), that have been awful. But, if I wasn't mentally ill, I don't know it would have been as hard.

My mother is diabetic, has regular, hard-to-treat physical problems, yet I've never seen her fall into a depression or even get angry. My grandfather (her father) had severe chronic illnesses from the time I was born until he died (I was 16). He did get down and often wondered, "Why me?" But ultimately his disposition was amazingly positive and good humored. Common factor between the two of them? No mental illness.

Obviously I'm not trying to speak for others. But for me, being mentally ill on its own makes EVERYthing worse, no matter what it is.

But, in reading your posts, Dan, what kept popping up in my mind is, there is an underlying component--I believe--to what you and I and many feel in regards to wondering if "normal" is better. And that is that mental illness continues to carry a tremendous stigma. People understand and sympathize with physical illness much much more; they can SEE it... they can see someone with cancer, having seizures, having multiple sclerosis. They can't see our mental illness.

I know of many ppl--myself included--that have essentially been vilified merely because they can't see our maladies....."gotta see it to believe it."

In that way, I can see why you would want to feel normal in the traditional sense. Hell, I often feel that way. I'm not like others here: I can't say I would choose Bipolar over something else. People with diabetes can drive themselves anywhere they want. Even those w/migraines--w/proper treatment--can have normal, everyday jobs. Those with allergies don't have raging moods over the course of days, or hours. Bipolar ppl lose their jobs with ease, become homeless, spend $1000's of dollars, lose friends and family, endure debilitating anxiety/suicidal feelings and hallucinations. I don't hear a lot of physically ill ppl dealing with that stuff often.

Just the way I feel.

I think the reason I would pick Bipolar over serious physical illness is because I don't to die early. Mostly that. And I don't enjoy the limitations that come with pain. I am a pretty active person and the pain, and other ailments make that really hard sometimes.

But it also makes dealing with the mental illness not so great, it does bring the moods out.

I can really understand what you said about the stigma Livethroughthis. That's very true about sympathy and empathy. In my case that hasn't been so, I think because I have been struggling with physical illness for so long, and come up empty handed or miss dx all over the place, my family is just kinda used to it, and I dunno they are not the sympathetic anyways.

And that leads to the other part for me, I never had much for family, or friends, so I can't say I have experienced that loss because of Bipolar, I don't spend thousands, but I don't have it to spend, I have lost the ability to work, which has been huge, but could have been for physical reasons as well. And I cannot drive because I have tunnel vision, .. the rest of it, yup, yup , yup. Tho I have seen my bf have pretty bad anxiety and depression brought on by physical illness.

After you made this post it made me think about my choice more, and why. Thanks for posting that cause a lot of it probably rings true for many. In my case, well My health is a mess, and I feel like I have gained more control over Bipolar over the years. But I am scared to die and leave my children behind, that is my biggest deciding factor.

I think the way you feel makes perfect sense. My bf tho he is pretty ill, would not trade for bipolar either. We have talked about that.

Dan, I struggle with trying to be super normal or "perfectionist" all the time. We look like we have everything and that couldn't be further from the truth. I feel everyone's that way. I've watched "normal" people crash and burn.

Life is about only taking as many stresses as one can, no matter what their limitations are. BP means I can't handle as much as others so I don't, I can't. No one expects me to do things I can't with my CP. So **** them if they want me to do more than I can with BP. I think understanding that "normal" is a range and we can just get as close to it as possible may take a bit of the pressure off you.

a couple years ago (maybe 2008/2009) i had a conversation with someone who told me they could never think about life with a mental illness.. they've never experienced, and they never want to- which got me to write a poem about how diffrent life may be for someone " normal"- i don't have it on me, but could probably find it if i saved it somewhere.. i'm not sure.

but i don't think life is as difficult for the normal person- a lot of normal people tend to enjoy life more, and have a lot more going for them

as a side note: i've been MI since about 9 too, and if i had a choice.. i wouldn't have it any other way.... while i hate it- the ups and downs, the voices, etc etc... you know how it goes, if it was all taken away from me.. i wouldn't know how to live- and where to start. well, i don't now.. but what i'm trying to say is that the mental illness makes me who i am in a way

I'd say the vast majority of people I know would fall into the "normal" category--meaning no mental illness or serious physical illness. It isn't that their lives are without problems; it is that their perception of events isn't screwed up by irrational thinking or dysregulated emotional states that are generally what make life such a struggle for those with MI. They are able to pull support from others, from their spirituality, from within themselves to make it through some truly horrible life circumstances without completely losing it.

I have some dear "normal" friends who have gone through absolute hell in the last two years. They've lost both parents; one family member was struck by a car and had to have his leg amputated; another had very premature twins, one which died within hours of birth, the other in the NICU for months, all this after several years of serious infertility battles and complications; their husband died in his sleep from a sudden, massive heart attack. I don't know any single family that has suffered so much stress and grief all within such a short period of time recently. But, they have managed through all of this with great strength, resilience, faith, and support from family and friends. Did they go through times of anxiety and depression? Of course, but they reached into their own resources and found ways to cope healthily and manage through it all. They are finally coming out on the other side (we hope no more tragedy hits this family).

Healthy individuals are able to manage crises that do arise in healthy ways, get through them in time, and move forward. Those of us dealing with MI tend to get bogged down in the symptoms of our illness that make coping seem so impossible.

Yes, I agree that even non MI or those with a physical ailment still have a hard, long road to travel. But wouldn't there be a large population of people that do not have such hard roads to travel? I guess it's those people that my envy is based on. but come to think of it, everyone around me has had sucky things pile up on them. Hmmmm... I really haven't lost a child to illness like one couple I know. I haven't been uprooted from state to state like other friends I know. I know another couple that the wife is under such stress from her job that it makes her physically sick. Hmmmm.... maybe i'm the one with the easy life. never considered that. It is possible that people around me have always been a little protective and had given me the chance to not drown.

I wonder if I do the same for them? Now I feel totally selfish!

Actually, depression is a common co-morbid diagnosis with major chronic illness. I work in a diabetes education center and about 85% of our patients are also diagnosed with depresion. About 2% of them are bipolar. We've seen one man who had schizophrenia and diabetes.

We even have a really basic "test" on our new patient information sheet designed to spot depression so that if people answer yes to the questions we alert their PCP, that's how common it is, and we try not to let people fall through the cracks.

I think bp is better than major depression because you get the highs which, unless they are dysphoric, can be quite fun. I would take bp over some very serious debilitating anxiety I keep reading about in the Anxiety forum - think people not living the house at all or being abnormally socially shy - I would not want that at all. I would take bp over plain schizophrenia (not schizoaffective) because I like not hearing voices and, again, there is the fun component. I like food so I would not want to be anorexic. I did purge a couple of times when I was young and I am very glad I got over it by myself without treatment - I would not want to go back; purging is a horrible thing. So I would take bp over bulimia. So as you see, even as MI goes, BP wins on many grounds.

My post regarding chronic illnesses and little to no MI was more of a generality. I'm fully aware ppl w/such illnesses do develop depression, etc. i've seen it happen.

My views are from my own experiences, many years, just as everyone else's.

I had an awful mixed episode yesterday and some of today, complete with severe anxiety. I thought to myself, "I would never pick this. The highs are never worth it. I would rather have the rest of my family's constitution anyday."

I think life is easier for norms. quality of life can e very difficult to judge if you give it some thought.

I have been diagnosed with Bipolar and Fibro in the last 3 years .. I am just learning to navigate both.

My life has never been easy. If given a chance to choose between the two .. I would keep Bipolar, Chronic non stop pain is terrible.