[nagasaki]

I was diagnosed a few months back an I am current going for CBT. But i realised something. What's the point? Why should I conform to this so others will feel better. actually whats the whole point of going on?

When one can't function "normally" in society, what is the point of going on? I feel like cattle feeding the rich pharmaceutical companies, or just maintaining my life so that other people can have a peace of mind and eliminate any guilt they have that they did the best they could. So why sacrifice people like us so others can feel better?

I really think that it doesn't sense to continue going on in life, because realistically there is no point. We all create our own reality to what we want to believe. and i can't un-believe what i know, that is there is no point to the whole thing except to progress the exceptional few and to continue on the human race. The rest of us are just food.

There is no point.

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by nagasaki

There is no point.

It could just as well be that there is, only from where you are right now, you're having a lot of trouble seeing it.

[hamster-bamster]

I do not think that CBT is going to do you any good. CBT is about rationalizing, and you are already rationalizing too much, in your own way. What medications have you been put on? And what is the exact dx - bipolar or schizoaffective?

[nagasaki]

So far it's bipolar 2. I am not keen in taking the meds hence their recommendation for me to go through CBT.

I'm still having problems accepting it. If CBT doesn't work, do meds really work? I'm really concerned as i have read that its not too good, and in some cases it does help. Is it worth it if i am of no harm to people?

[Anika.]

Well to progress and preserve our genes, yup. I agree. But that is ok, it is what it is. Richard Dawkins talks about why do we ask what the purpose is when it is inappropriate to ask. One of his examples was that it is appropriate to ask when we are asking the purpose of something designed in a factory or by a human, because it was designed with a purpose in mind. But when we ask what is the purpose when talking about other things like rocks and air, that it is inappropriate ( not a correct question ) The universe, stars.. Maybe there is no purpose, no specific goal.

I don't think making your human experience more comfortable or enjoyable is about other people. Then again I no longer take the meds either. Because I did not find they helped me, rather hindered, I am only speaking for myself here. But could the point be to better your own experience here? Being born in a human body, mind.. human consciousness is quite something, it's a random chance. I feel kind of lucky to have it. Which is where I find my point. Also what we know, is only what we think, what do we really know? I don't know that it actually matters so much tho, just like passing on our genes, does it matter to me if they are mine.. no. But I do think that while I am here might as well use this experience to the fullest that I can. Why? Cause I can, I don't think there needs to be a purpose to it. I think we have a hard time with that concept. I'm ok with it, but still ok with going on too.

I don't believe people are functioning normally in life, we are all functioning differently, even "normal". I know lots of "normal" people, they are all different than each other. They function different, operate different. I dunno, maybe it's just how I see it. Normal, I don't think exists, I think we just perceive others to be so.

[nagasaki]

Thank you for your insight into this.

Like you said, there are two sides to this which i agree with. but in the end, there is still no point.

If there is no point, why should i be concerned about others then? and also if there is no point, there should be no problem in how i want to my life to go. ending it prematurely or not.

I just feel that getting diagnosed with BP is not only confusing and hard for me to understand, what makes it worse is that others do not seem to get it. They keep thinking that i can snap out of it. everyone does. That in fact i am ok and that i am probably just weak now and running away.

No one bothers to try and understand, its like such a taboo for them.

I really think i am being very self destructive and i have started alienating everyone in my life. I'm really tired of it all. i can't seem to control my emotions or thoughts. I can't work or perform anything, because of this one thought. "whats the point".

I am glad you found something to drive you. I have nothing yet everything.

Someone else with more potential will really be able to succeed in the position i am in. Sometimes i feel i am just taking up resources.

If meds can help i would. hopefully it will kill this part of my brain for me. i really don't know what else to do.

[nagasaki]

Hamster.

How do i not rationalize? I can't stop my mind from thinking.

[Anika.]

Hey Nagasaki, I thought you might enjoy this if you have not seen it, it's interesting.. It's called the purpose of the purpose

He has a lot of very interesting talks. Quite enjoyable if you are interested in these sorts of things. CBT can help a lot. It helped me quite a bit... and I did some through group therapy, and a lot on my own. Mindfulness is also a very helpful tool. Jon Kabot Zinn has some great videos on youtube to learn from.

It can get better, I was dx'd with Bipolar 1 which I thought was a bit of a death sentence at first, but it has gotten a lot better after I found the right things for me. That takes time to figure out, what will work for you and what will not. We are all a bit individual in this aspect.

[Anika.]

Hmm well, because humans have the capacity to create goals, create points, and purposes ( neo purposes ). We have the ability to think about thoughts, AND we have the unique ability to think about others feelings and thoughts as well, which lends to empathy, compassion.

I understand why the why or what is troubling, I have often found myself in the same thoughts. There is also the idea that the less religious we become, the more moral we also become. Now that is not a usual concept or idea. Statistics do support this idea tho. But why? Why do we care, why do we have morals, or more morals with out religion? Tho there are some good explanations for this. Maybe we are moral beings after all. We have also evolved beyond pure natural selection I think.

Tho this topic will get you confused and fast, asking what the purpose is, or the point? And accepting evolution doesn't really go hand in hand to smoothly with these questions right? Because they stem from two different ideas.

There is tho always room to change our perceptions. What happens if you try to drop the what is the point, and just focus on what I am now, where I am now, just now.

The dx is still newish to you, and to them. But really people will think what they think, but what you think is what matters and will make the difference to you. If it makes it worse that others do not seem to understand, then there must be a reason why it matters, must be some point in that to you. So maybe there is some point in there after all, or you might not care at all ? It might not have any effect then.

We are very complicated creatures in a complicated environment, given simple explanations. That is how I feel about it.

I don't think you are wasting resources. It could be that if you were not using them, no one would, or they would be wasted for something we don't need, quite possibly you will use them and contribute to something that is needed and you might not realize it, or maybe later you will.

Sorry just trying to help, but I really understand your thoughts about this. Mindfulness can help you to stop some of that over thinking and rationalizing. Should be called something else since mindfulness is quite misleading, the purpose of it is not to fill the mind.

[venusss]

You don't need to be something for other people. In fact one of the top five regrets before dying is not allowing yourself to be you. Another is wishing you did express your true feelings.

So... maybe us people who do feel depressed and unbelievably sad during the life... have advantage of being able to change this when we still have time. We are maybe just more aware then others and have chance with some work and adjustments to find a life for ourselves (often it's a necesity).

[nagasaki]

that was an excellent video Anika and thanks. Got my noggin moving a little.

i still don't fully understand what you mean by mindfulness though.

What they think shouldn't matter, you're right. but under my circumstances i stand to lose a lot more if i do not comply.

I'm really just feeling lousy, and thank you for your replies, its helped me cheer up a bit. In my crazy rage i broke up with my girlfriend. But i still think its for the better. after all i would be a greater burden to her, and i don't think she is taking it well.

I'll hold on a bit longer, hopefully CBT works for me too.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by nagasaki

Hamster.

How do i not rationalize? I can't stop my mind from thinking.

Well CBT people will tell you that you can choose what to think about - is that right? Is that what you are taught?