not to sound stupid, but I prolly will anyways... but anyways...

is it not normal to have sui. plan. just knowing how you would do it if it ever came to that?

like one that you carry around with you in the back of your head? that's relatively normal, right?

I suspect the vast majority of the world doesn't even have suicide really enter their thinking, so no, it probably isn't "normal".

kk.........

[~Christina]

I have sui thoughts daily . Im sure there are vast amounts of people that wont admit it,

[usbusi]

I've got one in the back of my head, but I have never started the plan in motion, and I don't guess I ever will, so I'm guessing it's probably a part of suicidal ideation, but the question is a tricky one -- (so ask your psychiatrist.) Here is a good page of info: http://www.dbsalliance.org/pdfs/suicidefinalweb04.pdf .

I need to figure out life outside of his office cuz my wife is always there and that is not acceptable.

[unaluna]

Thanks for asking this question. I have never checked in, although I came close once about ten years ago, when I broke down crying from exhaustion at work. They were actively trying to break me, and they succeeded. The next week, they finally allowed me to go on vacation. But I was already done for.

[EverythingNothing]

It's not the state of mind to be in, that's for sure. Sure, I've come into contact with these thoughts on many occasions, but it's never something I'd act on. From experience, I know that when these thoughts come into play, it's time for a change.

[faerie_moon_x]

I used to have a plan like that. The plan had a "cataclysmic trigger" type of thing. Event A had to happen for it to be put in motion. It's faded out now that I've overcome my suicidal thinking quite a bit. But, it's still in there and I remember it, but I no longer feel I might need it, even if that event happens.

I assume the same will be for you as you move toward wellness.

[Br0k3nW1ng3d]

Originally Posted by landskaperdan

not to sound stupid, but I prolly will anyways... but anyways...

is it not normal to have sui. plan. just knowing how you would do it if it ever came to that?

Sadly I have carried one in the back of my head since I was a teen. It only surfaces when I really need to get more help than I am admitting to myself. Though I will have those random , "the world/my spouse/my family would be better off without me" thoughts from time to time.. It comes down to how I use self talk to get myself away from it becoming more serious and detailed.

I dont think its normal for society to have them in the back of their heads all the time.. I think it is normal for Bipolar II since the depressions can be so much thicker.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

I suspect the vast majority of the world doesn't even have suicide really enter their thinking, so no, it probably isn't "normal".

According to my GP as of 2006, no, loads of people have fleeting suicide ideation and it is normal. MI differs in the matter of degree, so it is a continuous function rather than discreet (discreet would be Normal - none, Mentally ill - a lot).

I do not know whether she said it to support me though, or was making an evidence-based comment. But usually she is pretty evidence-based. Just not sure about that specific one.

Found some stats:

Prevalence estimates of suicidal thoughts and behaviors varied by sociodemographic factors, region, and state. During 2008-2009, an estimated 8.3 million (annual average) adults aged ≥18 years in the United States (3.7% of the adult U.S. population) reported having suicidal thoughts in the past year. The prevalence of having suicidal thoughts ranged from 2.1% in Georgia to 6.8% in Utah. An estimated 2.2 million (annual average) adults in the United States (1.0% of the adult U.S. population) reported having made suicide plans in the past year. The prevalence of reports of suicide planning ranged from 0.1% in Georgia to 2.8% in Rhode Island. An estimated 1 million (annual average) adults in the United States (0.5% of the U.S. adult population) reported making a suicide attempt in the past year. The prevalence of reports of suicide attempts ranged from 0.1% in Delaware and Georgia to 1.5% in Rhode Island. The prevalence of suicidal thoughts, suicide planning, and suicide attempts was significantly higher among young adults aged 18-29 years than it was among adults aged ≥30 years. The prevalence of suicidal thoughts was significantly higher among females than it was among males, but there was no statistically significant difference for suicide planning or suicide attempts.

Not a very large percentage. I wouldn't call 1% indicative of normal.

[hamster-bamster]

It could be one of two things: 1) she was just trying to be supportive 2) the stats are of REPORTED suicidal ideation and people might have a tendency to grossly underreport it. Plus, the 1% you are taking about is for planning, "An estimated 2.2 million (annual average) adults in the United States (1.0% of the adult U.S. population) reported having made suicide plans in the past year. " and she talked to me about fleeting ideation. There is an order of magnitude difference between ideation and planning. There is also a discreet difference in treatment - people with plans go inpatient and people with ideation stay home, by and large. Finally, even those who plan suicide underreport it, especially those who have serious plans.

[Anika.]

How do they even come up with stats for suicidal thinking or ideas? How in the world would they know what percent is thinking about what at any given time? I can inderstand stats that would come in from hospitals or whatever. But thought stats? Seems way to indeterminable. I can't understand how that works.

I wouldn't call it normal per say, but then what is. but not rare either.

This was a NIH study, so I suspect their stats are pretty accurate; this wasn't an informal poll. Regardless, the OP was inquiring about plans, which is why I quoted the 1% figure. Either way, still a statistically small number.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by farmergirl

This was a NIH study, so I suspect their stats are pretty accurate; this wasn't an informal poll. Regardless, the OP was inquiring about plans, which is why I quoted the 1% figure. Either way, still a statistically small number.

That is true, Dan was talking about plans. Did not notice at first. I do not think you need serious polling to determine that it is not normal to have serious plans. The species would have not survived and reproduced otherwise. 1% seems intuitively correct for plans (as opposed to thoughts).

[Secretum]

I think that it is "normal" to have a plan in the back of your head if you have felt suicidal before, which most bipolar people have. So, I think it's normal for a bipolar person.

I'm doing really well right now, no suicidality or other depressive symptoms, but I still know what I would do if I needed to end my life, because I have made these plans before. It's the simple result of having a memory.

[Doxie mom]

I think going over ways you could kill yourself and picking a way is not abnormal if it is kind of lime a fantasy. I think if you decide you are going to do it and have a definite plan that is when you need to reach out for help. I think if you have constant thoughts about killing yourself that is also an issue that needs to be addressed. Does not mean you are abnormal you just need help to get through it.

[wildchild r]

I've been having some.this past week,but always my.thoughts go Quickly to.the.people who love ME AND need me.I just cant be that selfis

Originally Posted by landskaperdan

...is it not normal to have sui. plan. just knowing how you would do it if it ever came to that?
(and added from next post...)like one that you carry around with you in the back of your head? that's relatively normal, right?

Relatively normal or not, I related to what you are saying right away. Read the rest of the thread, to find Secretum pretty well expressed what I think too.

Originally Posted by Secretum

I think that it is "normal" to have a plan in the back of your head if you have felt suicidal before, which most bipolar people have. So, I think it's normal for a bipolar person.
I'm doing really well right now, no suicidality or other depressive symptoms, but I still know what I would do if I needed to end my life, because I have made these plans before. It's the simple result of having a memory.

I'd only diverge from this in thinking that simply (sorry for poor word choice) having felt suicidal might not generate this. Maybe this is my view because of comparing suicidality from 2 different depressions (not that there's just been 2(!!!)), one of which I carry with me and the other which I do not. Both times involved feeling suicidal. Both times had a "how". The one I carry with me is ...different. I think it comes down to specificity. It took more than just feeling suicidal, even with a how.

Anyhow. Back to the one I actually do carry. I can say that when I came up with it, I was definitely a danger to myself. The sheer amount of research and calculation as well as procurement is testament to that. At that time, the criteria of "having a plan" as being ER Time applied for sure (not that I went). BUT, since that time, I do not personally, consider that the criteria FOR MYSELF. However, I do have criteria lines. I experience the knowledge on 4 levels. First level doesn't even phase me. Second level has a fairly wide span, but I've ridden this planet in its circling of the sun enough times to be aware of how I do and do not react within it, and act accordingly. The third is quite dangerous, the fourth is a definite emergency.

Maybe instead of calling it "normal", we could call it "not terribly unusual" (for our subgroup, not people in general). Or maybe it is terribly unusual. (?) I'm not saying it's a good thing, but neither am I going to pretend it isn't my reality. All I know is that it doesn't bother me. I'd go further than that but, nah...

Long and short: Know thyself. Different things are problematic for different people for different reasons. If it bothers you, or you think it probably should be bothering you, it is something worth looking into.