I've never felt such a sudden swing before... it's always been more gradual... either that or I'm just more aware, but still!

[faerie_moon_x]

I have this question myself. Being that it is a chronic illness, it is very possible that it's also a progressive one. Which means, earlier diagnosis and proper treatment can be extremely important. But, no one really agrees on this as far as I know. But, I think it does personally. My functioning has decreased exponentially just in the past five years alone.

[spoiltmom]

I honestly hope not but I'm afraid it probably will.

I believe the answer to that is yes and no.

No, if you take care of yourself, make changes in your diet that are helpful and take the least amount of psychotropic medications to remain stable, all the while keeping a close watch on your moods as you are doing now. You will actually mellow with age.

Yes, if you fail to take medications of any type and abuse your body chemically. The brain can rely only on what it gets for food and other
things: rest, exercise, pharmaceutical grade vitamins and minerals--omit
those and you might be on a track for deepening the illness both in
depressive and manic states.

You'll be sooooo--ooooo much better if you become pro-active in your
care, learning what your body needs in the way of vitamin support
to offset the drain that meds cause. (It's a drain on minerals, vitamins,
enzymes and in addition leaves an acid residue--ash--when digested.)
You will need to offset that by supplementing the things lost to keep
good health.

[hamster-bamster]

Mine has become better in terms of mood stability (to the point of normal) but worse in terms of sleep. I need a little help for sleep. Not full scale sleep medicines such as Ambien, but a little muscle relaxant or a little marijuana or a combination of the two, both in very low doses. And in the past, including in my 30s, I was able to sleep without drugs. It definitely feels abnormal that such a basic bodily function as sleep needs a little help... But I have accepted that things are the way they are and thankful that I do not need, as I said, full scale sleep medicines that can cause dependency/addiction or stop working over time.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by landskaperdan

I've never felt such a sudden swing before... it's always been more gradual... either that or I'm just more aware, but still!

You might very well be more aware, Dan!

They say that if you try to analyze how you walk, how you put one foot in front of the other, you would soon fall.

[usbusi]

The general idea on this out there seems to be it gets worse if it isn't treated.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by usbusi

The general idea on this out there seems to be it gets worse if it isn't treated.

Yes. It is attributed to the phenomenon of kindling: one episode ignites the next in the brain and the more untreated episodes you have, the more frequently they would appear.

"Results:  Response rates for the mania and maintenance studies ranged from 52–69% and 10–50%, respectively, for individuals with 1–5 previous episodes, and from 29–59% and 11–40% for individuals with >5 previous episodes. These rates were significantly higher for the 1–5 group on most measures of response with up to a twofold increase in the chance of responding for those with fewer previous episodes. For the depression studies, response rates were significantly higher for the 1–5 group for two measures only. In the maintenance studies, the chance of relapse to either mania or depression was reduced by 40–60% for those who had experienced 1–5 episodes or 6–10 episodes compared to the >10 episode group, respectively. This trend was statistically significant only for relapse into mania for the 1–5 episode group (p = 0.005).

Conclusion:  Those individuals at the earliest stages of illness consistently had a more favourable response to treatment. This is consistent with the staging model and underscores the need to support a policy of early intervention."

From http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...A748B61.d01t02

But it does not mean that it is impossible later - it just has less of a chance.

Note: this is from an industry-sponsored study.

[Anika.]

It has gotten better for me too, unmedicated mind you. Kindling is a theory, not a fact. And while it does look good on paper, it doesn't seem to take any other factors into account besides medication but there are so many othet factors.

I am pretty sypmtomless now, I still have a ton of stress that can make me dip here and there but I wouldn't call it depression, and I have learned how to bounce back quite quickly, seems pretty normal to me anyways.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Anika.

It has gotten better for me too, unmedicated mind you. Kindling is a theory, not a fact. And while it does look good on paper, it doesn't seem to take any other factors into account besides medication but there are so many othet factors.

I am pretty sypmtomless now, I still have a ton of stress that can make me dip here and there but I wouldn't call it depression, and I have learned how to bounce back quite quickly, seems pretty normal to me anyways.

Yes, you have excellent results, Anika.

[Yoda]

My bipolar certainly got worse when I became perimenopausal. It was rough for awhile but with a new set of meds and the passing of time I now have few symptoms on an average day.

[Gaijin]

My BP II has gotten worse with age. I don't know if it makes a difference, but I didn't get any treatment until my late 40s.

[hamster-bamster]

Anika,

Yes, the industry has an interest in promoting medicating versus wait and see in young patients, so more independent studies would be welcome to determine if kindling exists.

I thimk it can also depend on the level of stress but I do not know which way it goes. Say, an empty nester. Children are grown so there iis less stress. But there is also much less social interaction. Do those factors balance each other out or does one prevail?

[BipolaRNurse]

I think it's gotten worse for me as I've aged, although that could be because I'm actually aware of it now instead of blundering around blindly like I did for most of my life. Until 3-4 years ago, I was able to fake "normality" most of the time, and I had long periods of what I now know are stable moods. It's what they call "presenting well," and I can still do it to some extent. But things started going downhill right around the time my youngest child graduated from high school, then followed some extremely stressful times when I was between jobs, recuperating from knee surgery, dealing with a body that's falling apart, etc.

Then last winter, I think something crossed over in me and ignited a raging mixed episode that I couldn't ignore or try to bluff my way through. I got into trouble at another online forum that I'd been on for over ten years and moderated for six, flipped a screaming fit at work, and was so strung out that I told my primary doc that if he didn't give me something to mellow me out, I'd probably wind up in the newspaper (to say nothing of jail) for killing something or someone.

The past year has been a real struggle, and there have been many times I've wanted to give up because I knew I was losing the fight with my illness. I still don't know if it'll ever be under complete control, or if I'll just keep having mood episodes forever, even though their effects are less harsh now because of the medications I'm on. All of which makes me wish someone had caught on to this and diagnosed me properly when I was younger.

But, I'm healthy now, so I'll be grateful for any period of stability I get to experience and do what I need to in order to prolong it.

[uknowhatimean]

I agree that it gets better if you take care of yourself. I have been dealing with this for over 30 years and the last few years have to be some of the best that I ever had. With age comes wisdom-it's true-even though you never have told me that and made me listen in my 20s. Sleeping right, eating as healthy as I can, not smoking and exercise, have made an enormous difference. We are not statistics, but rather individuals with a common problem, and get defy the "experts" and studies that put us in categories.

[Victoria'smom]

My psychosis is getting more frequent and angry instead of euphoric.

[cocoabeans]

I don't know if I can comment on the "with age" part because I'm only in my late 20s but this started when I was a teenager and I can tell you it's gotten much better since my early 20s but, I've also learned fancy doo dads like meditation, mindfulness and that confidence thing that I didn't have during my teens.

[Eliza Jane]

For me, I think it has gotten worse and I have been stabilized on meds most of the time for the past 10 yrs. When I started meds, they felt optional. I was anxious and depressed, but I had been managing without meds. Then I fell into a horrible depression, played with different med combos for a while and (after a long time) found a great combo for me. Then I tried to stop just one key med (Abilify) and I completely deteriorated within weeks in spite of being in a good place in life otherwise.

Some people who are skeptical of meds will say it was the meds that made me worse or dependent on them. I don't really believe that. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter either way. For me to have a good quality of life I need a little medication. I'm okay with that because I have learned what I am like without it!

Best,
EJ

[Trippin2.0]

For me it's definitly gotten better.
I was a mess as a teenager, I was mess after dx, just as I was a mess medicated...

And by mess I mean, my episodes were severe, dangerous and more frequent than I care to admit, I didn't know if I was coming or going, felt like a fricken human yo-yo thinking something was bound to snap inside my head at anytime, bcoz that shyt is just too crazy!!!...

28 now, so much more self-aware, I have aquired good coping mechanisms, great source of support online here with you guys, and the knowledge that I just need to get through the now, has helped me immensely. Taking responsiblity for my wellbeing, including cleansing myself of toxic relationships, all the while staying true to who I am has been the cornerstone of my current state of wellbeing.

My cycles are less prominant these days, it's like I only have remnants of mood cycles, not full blown ones any longer, and haven't had an actual episode since, lord knows when... Think March 2012??? Yes that anehodonia spell I experienced, that was it.

So for me, time, knowledge, wisdom, has made my bp experience easier to contend with, and that is without psychmeds...

Looking after yourself is imperative, problem is, there is no cookie cutter version of looking after yourself, and this is where the medical model fails alot of us, so we have to blaze our own trail to wellness.

I don't buy the kindling theory, simply because "they' also say that untreated Schizophrenia causes brain atrophy when I know my aunt suffered brain atrophy from psychmeds, AP's if I'm not mistaken.... Also, to make my point, all those shrunken brains of the people dxd SCZ, they were patients no? So how do we know it wasnt the meds? And how many unmedicated SCZ patients did they manage to find to compare them to?.... Just some food for thought

ETA: Ooops, didn't mean to write a novel

i don't really have an anser for you... i'm 25 now, and it's all worse then it was when i first was diagnosed, but hey.. that's not really saying anything.

it could very well be the fact i'm not coping, not my age

[venusss]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Mine has become better in terms of mood stability (to the point of normal) but worse in terms of sleep. I need a little help for sleep. Not full scale sleep medicines such as Ambien, but a little muscle relaxant or a little marijuana or a combination of the two, both in very low doses. And in the past, including in my 30s, I was able to sleep without drugs. It definitely feels abnormal that such a basic bodily function as sleep needs a little help... But I have accepted that things are the way they are and thankful that I do not need, as I said, full scale sleep medicines that can cause dependency/addiction or stop working over time.

in your case, I think, letting go abusive duraki in your life played a huge role in getting better emotionally.

I don't buy the kindling theory, simply because "they' also say that untreated Schizophrenia causes brain atrophy when I know my aunt suffered brain atrophy from psychmeds, AP's if I'm not mistaken.... Also, to make my point, all those shrunken brains of the people dxd SCZ, they were patients no? So how do we know it wasnt the meds? And how many unmedicated SCZ patients did they manage to find to compare them to?.... Just some food for thought

Yeah, that's what makes me wonder. I mean... I don't let psych doctor near me Nobody scans my brain regularly.
How do they know about me and others how are out of the system and how we are doing?

I say it depends. IN theories of conflict... there is a theory called "path dependency" which says, that sometimes making a decision determines and limits your options for the next step... so maybe the "kindling" theory in some is what it is... basically screwing your life and having no way out. No brain chemistry, no "progressive illness", but getting tangled in your mess. It happens.

[hamster-bamster]

So based on the answers, it can get better or worse and there does not seem to be much of a pattern.

[hamster-bamster]

[QUOTE=VenusHalley;2833404]in your case, I think, letting go abusive duraki in your life played a huge role in getting better emotionally.

Actually, I got better earlier than that. Not by a huge number of months, but earlier. And that I need so little medicine for sleep is thanks to him - both Elavil that I use now and marijuana that I used with success but stopped using due to cost/absence of dreams, Elavil and marijuana both in very low amounts, were his ideas. So have to give credit where credit is due. Sleep well - feel well when awake. So that is positive credit. He gets a negative credit for my having taken antipsychotics for so long with their horrible sexual side effects. He convinced me that I had schizophrenia and I convinced a reluctant p-doc, in 2009, to prescribe an AP. Because AP's are also used for pure BP (not schizoaffective but just bp), subsequent doctors have just switched AP's but have never questioned that I need AP's. Until I questioned it and went off and yesterday my p-doc agreed. I do not question BP, I have had the typical spending sprees that simply cry BP and I take Lithium for that and I did not buy a single piece of **** during my trip and I like that, but I do not need AP's (neuroleptics). That reluctant doctor who initially prescribed Risperdal thought that I was just bp and thus Lithium would be enough. I think now she was right. Yesterday the p-doc said that he, too, wondered about the mention of schizophrenia in my old chart because it did not compute in his mind.

I am really mad at ex when I think that from 2009 to 2012 I took AP's for no good reason. Thankful for the sleep medicine but angry due to the AP's.