Manic depression issue...(may trigger)

im not sure what forum this goes in, more than likely depression but i will post it here for now...

i read an article yesterday about a charity organisation looking to legalise suicide as it were for people who suffer manic depression. basically they want the law here in the UK to change to allow sufferers of manic depression to decide whether they want to take their own life.

i have mixed feelings about this to be honest. it got me thinking after i read the article. i remember when i was at my worse depression state, i nearly commited suicide but at the very last second decided not to. i really did want to die, so badly. but im glad i didnt. im glad i worked through it and got to where i am today. im not sure what the law will actually be, and how serious it has to be before they are allowed to commit suicide. but i know that to die was all i wanted, but it was the wrong thing to do. all i keep thinking is that people in a depressive state who want to take their own lives could be making a mistake. i know that if i had taken my life back then i would have missed out on so much and now, im glad i didnt. but these people who take their life wont have that second chance at life, it all seems too final really. to think of the pain they leave their loved ones etc. it just doesnt seem right some how.

but on the other hand i agree with it. i agree that if somebody who has been working for years to beat serious depression but cant go on anymore, the only option left for them is to end it all. i think thats fair enough. and it is their choice afterall. after many years of pain and depression suicide may be the only answer.

but i still dont agree with it. like i said, i dont know the law and what the limits are etc. all i know is that an organisation is lobbying to allow suicide to be made legal.

i thought i would come on here and ask for your opinions on the matter. i have set up a poll to see who agrees with the idea and who doesnt.

im sorry if this has triggered anything for people, i know its a tough topic, but i think this new law is significant and needs to be discussed.

feel free to comment on the issue. have you ever been in that situation and realised that its best to carry on, and am now leading a happy life. do you think people should have that choice? do you think the limit should be really strict or that anyone who is suffering from depression should be allowed?

there is room for so much to talk about in this. so feel free to raise a topic connected to this for discussion.

simon

I may be causing even more triggers here......so read with care......

I guess I have a strange way of thinking about suicide. Why should it be only made legal for sufferers of manic depression....how about people with cancer or a terminal illness?.....how about people with depression or any other mental illness that can bring a person to that point of thinking (not just manic depression).

Then I have some questions about different aspects of suicide. What about passive suicide such as:
1) If I am dealing with anorexia, I want to loose weight because I feel that I am fat no matter how thin I get. I can end up dying from that illness. When I was feeling suicidal & dealing with massive weight loss, I realized that if I died from anorexia, my family wouldn't have to deal with the stigma of suicide....it would have been the anorexia that killed me.

2) Then you can look at a person with an illness (something obvious such as cancer) & chooses to ignore it, or doesn't realize they have it, or even ignores it out of ignorance (I know that was my Mothers case) By ignoring it until it is too late, they can end up dying. Is that considered suicide if they ignore it if they want to die?

Of course, the real question about the law comes down to the basics. How can they enforce the law.....if a person successfully commits suicide, they are dead.....they can't be put in jail.....they can't be fined......what exactly does the law do to a person who commits suicide? Or is the law right now only for those who try to commit suicide but aren't successfull?

I know in California, it is illegal to commit suicide. The only thing they do here if they catch you before you die, is to put you into the hospital on a 72 hour hold. If you are talking about suicide, Dr's can have you put on a 72 hour hold & take you to a psych hospital. I also know that the law here states that if your are harmfull to yourself or others, you can be put on a 5150 (72 hour hold) & taken to a treatment place. That was how the sheriffs handled the guy who followed me home for over 40 miles late at night. Luckily we didn't go home & went to a place where we could get law enforcement help.

I am curious about what the UK law does now for people who successfully commit suicide? How can they inforce a law on someone who isn't alive? I think that the law is only useful for people who unsuccessfully attempt the suicide. What they do in the UK now with people who just attempt suicide?

Suicide is much more complicated that limiting it to be ok for manic depression & not for anything else.

Personally I think that EVERY person who attempts suicide for whatever reason & whether they are caught or not......NEEDS PROFESSIONAL HELP!!!! I know because I was dealing with anxiety & just plain old depression & very suicidal for years. I was almost successful several times (landing in ICU in a coma & on a breathing machine because I couldn't breath on my own). I needed help even though I wasn't open to it at the time. I was determined that suicide was my only answer.

Like you, I am so thankful that I wasn't successful. I have still gone through some horrible things in my life after I got through the suicidal feelings. My life still isn't what I would call great. However the love I am experiencing with my eskies & my horses, especially my filly that my mare had just 2 years ago, is something that I never could have dreamed of in my greatest dreams.

I no longer have my career that used to be my complete identity, but the love I have with my eskies & horses is more wonderful than anything I could have ever thought could have happened in my life. From them, I have learned what real love is.

I am now able to look at things much more positively than I did before. I am hoping that I will be able to take the horrible trauma I went through when my mother was dying of cancer & I caught the home care RN in the fraud & identity theft & she called the police to accuse me of abusing of my Mother & make something good out of it. I can't stop the flashbacks or nightmares.....or even the feelings of depersonalization that continue to haunt me but hopefully I will be able to take all the information I have & show the hospital the mistakes they made & hopefully get the information out to the public so they can be more aware that things like that can actually happen.

If I had been successful with any one of my suicide attempts, I wouldn't have been there for my Mother (no matter how much anger I still have toward her). I also wouldn't be able to enjoy the farm I am planning on buying with the sale of my Mothers home. I will be able to have all my horses & dogs around me without having to continue boarding my horses. I will be able to settle down & focus on training my filly & continue my dressage training & showing. I have learned how to truely enjoy my life & realize that I am me & not just what my career was.

Having the ability to sit back & enjoy my life that is around me is something I couldn't do if I had been successful with any of my suicides, but the suicide attempts are what taught me to be able to enjoy the life that I have & not be trapped in the superficial life I had. I have found in my life there is always the good & bad in everything.

Sorry for my long winded discussion on the topic but it is rather complicated,
Debbie

I agree that bipolar people should not be able to make a decison regarding suicide. I had my first attempt at 15 (I'm now 52) & agree with Debbie that I would have missed so much--having kids & enjoying some of the good times of life. My mother had numerous attempts (was bipolar, also) & finally succeeded when I was 15. It is hard to say, but I was relieved that she was finally out of pain. She suffered horribly, but with today's drugs, who knows? She maybe could have been helped. I do think people with a terminal physical illness (such as cancer or ALS) should be able to determine when to end their lives. I don't think we should make them suffer. I wouldn't want to.

But, all said & done, my husband had to take me to the ER a month ago because of an overdose. Bipolar is the pits.--Suzy

You both make valid points... this would not be the first time it was said a bipolar cannot rely on his/her own judgement....

but what do you do when you reach 40 and see you have wasted a lot of time and don't want to waste any more?

Who's to say it wouldn't be for the best then?

you are all raising valid points.

it is such a tricky law to bring in, because each case is too individual, one cannot be compared to another, nor to a set of guidelines.

i know that if somebody was suicidal and did want to take their own life, whether it is legal or not wont stop them. but if they were suffering from manic depression and realised it is legal, could it push someone to do it do you think?

the results of my poll are interesting, out of 17 who voted, 11 say no to the law, whilst 4 of you say yes, with only 2 who are unsure. it is quite varied, i must admit, i expected the results to be marginally different, so i am surprised to see a large majority of voters dont want this law.

thank you to eskielover, suzy5654, and to you rebound for all of your comments. i find this subject very interesting and hold it close to my heart as i was there myself one day. i would like to hear more peoples opinion on this matter so please feel free to give your opinions on this subject, they are more than welcome.

thank you.

simon

I have always felt it's up to the person and should be allowed to make this their choice,but after seeing and feeling what one feels like when "unstable" (non medicated or refusing to follow a program) taking one's life under that sort of wicked influence, in my heart is not right.
I say this cause even with myself,(I had been at that point 2000)looking back,not DXed and treated would be making a wrong or very extreme choice. After treatment and continued meds for stabilization, I look at my world/life differently,appreciating the simplest things,losing a loved one besides stabilization,made life mean so much more than before. Looking back,I'm glad I sought help,called my T,he called my pdoc (he had hooked me up with) and volunteerily signed myself in for a 10 day stint in a local general hospital's psych ward,evaluated,proper DX and then the right meds and dosages to help stabilize me.
Terminally ill, physically suffering as well as the anguish should have the option. This wish,they usually lose as they near the end. My dad for so long wanted to die,but as his condition deteriorated(still haunts my dreams,breaks my heart)he didn't want to die,he was already missing us, and his heart was breaking,having to know it was almost over.
Part of me says yes and part of me says no for those not physically suffering. This is such a grey area,so direct,firm answers to this question is more complicated than "yes" or "no".
Just so we do not forget in the future,let's continue to respect the guidelines here on the "S" topic, I think this thread did just that,it was a good discussion, and no "S" threats existed or things of that nature, in this thread
I do think this was a great post,and again can be a grey area,but the different opinions have been most interesting.
It's great to see everyone was able to have this discussion and while keeping things in a mature manner.
Thanks, everyone.

I guess I might think that a law giving permission to a specific mental illness isn't a good idea because some people might think because a law says it is ok, then it would be ok....& if the law making it illegal can stop even one person from being successful when they are just trying it, then if might be good.

I know for me, there was a law against suicide here in California, & it didn't even have any effect on my attempts. This is based on the fact that people who are serious about suicide will attempt it no matter what law exists.

The answer to rebound about being 40 & thinking that there have been waisted years, you have to realize that as long as you are living, there is always going to be the possibility of finding something that will finally help you.....if is isn't a new med, it might just be a change in the way of thinking about life.

For me, I was 40 when the anxiety & depression hit. I had a wonderful aerospace engineering career for 15 years. That ended.....I was 40 & ended up having nothing that I had worked so hard to achieve in my life. I have to admit, suicide thoughts were filling my mind along with the attempts. Meds didn't help, I felt that there was nothing left for me....I was an aerospace engineer along with my husband, making a very high yearly salary....could have almost anything we wanted & that was all over....& I no longer had my identity. Having something & loosing it & knowing that you can never get it back no matter how intelligent I was, is a horrible hopeless feeling. For me, it took a change in thinking that got me out of the suicidal issues even though I am still haunted by the depression & symptoms from things I have since gone thought. I realize that I couldn't depend on meds to make my life better because I couldn't take any of the meds without horrible side effects. Somehow, there was a change in my thinking process over the years when I wasn't successful.....looking back, there were many reasons why I was never successful & am thankful for the fact that my thinking at the time wasn't successful no matter how bad the things I have gone through since then.

Debbie