[NinjaSidekick]

Any tips? What works for you? I've been sort of self-medicating to get through the rough days (like right now)...just coming off of a classic episode of mania with about $3k less in my bank account and lots of new friends that will probably not like me after they meet "the other half"
It was a fun ride, I wish it could have lasted forever. I feel like it's not fair...it's not fair to the people in my life that I've gotten close to and that fell in love with my personality while I was manic. How can I expect them to also like me when I'm not manic? How will I ever find a career that will suit both sides of me? I'm so frustrated with this half. I feel like it's going to ruin everything that was great.
Anyone else feel like this?

[spiritual_emergency]

Hello NinjaSidekick,
I'm only aware of a handful of people who have been diagnosed as bipolar and are not currently medicated. One is Steve Morgan. He did take medications for three years but eventually withdrew and is using a combination of different approaches to deal with any problems he encounters. Here's the link to my earlier post: http://forums.psychcentral.com/showt...t=Steve+Morgan

Two other individuals I'm aware of include Sean and Jane. Both those individuals have blogs, videos and books that might provide you with more information. In addition, you can also check out this blog, by Giani Kali.

One small word of caution: I'm more familiar with the experiences of those who have experienced psychosis but I would imagine the issue of non-medication would be handled in a similar fashion. The goal of any treatment -- regardless of what that treatment is -- is to improve or restore function. Occasionally, I encounter people who equate non-medication with recovery but unless you are functioning well without meds, it can't be called recovery.

For that reason, I would urge you to pay attention to your functioning levels. There are a variety of tools that can assist people in recovery and this includes meds.

Best of luck.

~ Namaste

[NinjaSidekick]

I was on medication before but for years they could never find anything that worked well for me and it got really frustrating. I don't have insurance now and don't make enough money to afford the lengthy process that it becomes finding something that works anyhow...plus, I really enjoy the highs. I'd really miss them a lot. I look forward to them even though I have no attention span and I spend a lot and that sometimes causes problems. I take a lot of risks but I usually end up being responsible enough about it. I cry myself to sleep at night for a week after it ends because I feel like I'm losing myself and I know it'll be a while before she returns...the lows are what really get me. The irritability is nearly unbearable. My productivity is non-existant. I've taken anger management classes before but I'm in so much of a fog when I'm down that I can't even process and identify the feeling before I act on it. It's really debilitating...
Thank you for the links to those resources, I'll definitely take a look at them as soon as I get a chance.

[spiritual_emergency]

Here's something else I came across in my recent wanderings NinjaSidekick. It sounds as if this woman is using nutritional supplements as a means of management. I don't know if it might be another option you or others could consider; it certainly will be one I'm willing to look at on behalf of my own child.

I have a long established history of Bipolar Disorder (type 1). I also have a plethora of funny (and not so funny) stories that all end in psychiatric hospitalization. If you add up all of the time I've spent in a psychiatric hospital for manic episodes, it adds up to just over a year.

At any rate, in March of 2003, I was delighted with the news that I was pregnant with my first baby. Problem was, there aren't any medications that my doctor was aware of that do not cause birth defects. My only options were to not take any medication or to not have the baby. The latter option was not acceptable to me.

Having said all of the above, I heard about Margot Kidder's success with orthomolecular medicine and then discovered Truehope.com while doing a little online research on orthomolecular medicine. I was nervous about taking only vitamins to treat my bipolar disorder so I started seeing a marriage and family therapist (MFCC) because they are trained to recognize a manic epsode (hypomania) before I went completely manic and out of control. If they recommended that I seek hospitalization or traditional medicine, I would do whatever was necessary to keep my baby healthy.

I've been on the EMPower + vitamins since March of 2003. Since then, I've had two beautiful and healthy little boys, no post partum depression, no depression, no manic episodes, and no medications or blood tests to determine whether or not the drugs I was taking had destroyed my liver.

I'd be curious to hear other's experience with complementary medicine.

Source: Bipolar Disorder and Complimentary Medicine

Note, I went to the truehope website and was pleased to see some evidence there suggesting that the product named above really does help people. Apparently, the company had to prove as much to the government to be able to sell their product in stores and they were able to produce results that demonstrated an improvement -- they say, up to 80%. I haven't heard of this product before, nor tried it but I'm surely not alone in my desire for something that can help my child without the potential risks of the medication.

The website can be found here: truehope.com

[mschu528]

Yea, I've tried going without medication every manic episode, only to end up with severe psychotic symptoms and forced by my family to go back to the psychiatrist for another medication. I certainly won't say it can't work, but thus far it hasn't for me. And I'm the one with the R.D. Laing quote as my signature - isn't that a bit ironic?

[spiritual_emergency]

mschu528: Yea, I've tried going without medication every manic episode, only to end up with severe psychotic symptoms and forced by my family to go back to the psychiatrist for another medication. I certainly won't say it can't work, but thus far it hasn't for me. And I'm the one with the R.D. Laing quote as my signature - isn't that a bit ironic?

Yes, and I'm the one who managed to recover from an "extreme state" without meds and apparently, can sometimes be helpful to other people who have undergone similar experiences. I just can't seem to help my own child. More irony.

I certainly do have a lot more to learn about mania. In some ways, I think it's far more destructive than psychosis. In my own case, I went into a room and locked the door behind me. It wasn't deliberate but I ended up creating a container as a result. In my child's case however, they want to go out into the world and interact with it -- it becomes very difficult to contain the experience as a result. When people talk about creating a mania plan (i.e. locking up their credit cards, reducing socialization), this appears to be a means of attempting to contain the experience and thus, limit its potential to be damaging. I would imagine that anyone who is attempting to learn how to manage mania without medication may need to create some strong containers. It might be easier to pass through that state with less damage in an isolated cabin in the woods than, say, a highrise in a city.

Insofar as med use goes, I've always said meds are a tool. Right now, my child is using them and identifies them as helpful but they don't want to be dependant upon them forever either. I also believe people do have a right to know about, explore and try alternatives to medications if they want to try. Perhaps for some, that will produce their cure. For others, it might allow them to reduce their meds and that's not such a bad thing either. There's also the reality that many people face wherein they can't afford the medication. I'm not sure about mood stabilizers although I know some of the antipsychotics can be outrageously expensive. So... people look to alternatives both out of hope and reality.

In the examples I linked above, Steve Morgan has identified Jungian psychology as helpful to him (I find mania itself seems to correspond with a state of shadow possession); Jane made use of Eastern forms of self-exploration; Sean was so disgusted and traumatized by his first hospitalization experience, he walked away and never went back, and; Gianni Kali undiagnosed herself after taking medications for years. A great deal of her blogging efforts have detailed her slow attempts to withdraw from psychotropic medications she felt had become more life-draining than sustaining. It has been a very slow process for her.

All four of them seem to have found stability without medication, maybe even full recovery. I've seen and read similar stories in relation to schizophrenia and the temptation is always to say, "Maybe those people who recover (don't need meds) were never really sick to begin with, maybe they were misdiagnosed." I would imagine there will be a similar temptation in regard to bipolar disorder. However there does seem to be an abundance of evidence that tells us that many people make full recoveries but that doesn't mean doing nothing at all -- they simply find different forms of treatment/therapies that work for them. There is no guarantee the same will work for everyone else.

As for nutritional therapies, it's new to me but it looks like it might be worth exploring. Maybe it will help, maybe it won't. We won't know until we try. I don't know if this is something we'd want to try right away but if we do, I'll let others know how its going.

~ Namaste

[xflygirl]

Originally Posted by NinjaSidekick

I feel like it's not fair...it's not fair to the people in my life that I've gotten close to and that fell in love with my personality while I was manic. How can I expect them to also like me when I'm not manic?

My husband is in the hospital for the first time to deal with his bipolar. I believe we met and were married so quickly because he was manic at the time. One month after the wedding, the honeymoon was definitely over!! The man I married was upbeat and fun and love, love, LOVED me to the point of almost smothering. Personally, I loved the attention and didn't feel smothered. I couldn't understand his sudden withdrawal from me. We sought counseling that wasn't successful in diagnosing him and didn't do much but allow him to ***** about his ex-wife.
I finally convinced him that I wasn't going to let him push me away. Basically, feed me all your worst crap and I may just ask for seconds.

We recently found out that my Multiple Sclerosis has progressed and it may get bad enough that I could lose my mobility. I have to begin a tougher med next month. His attitude was that we'll deal with it and if he has to install ramps in the house for a power chair- so be it.
How could I ever leave my husband because he is sick? He did nothing to bring this on himself just as I did nothing to get MS.

You'll find the right person for you if you're honest with yourself and them. It does happen!

I've avoided posting to this thread. While I understand spiritual_emergency regarding people having alternatives wither for philosophical or financial reasons, well, how could I disagree? It's the nature of free will. And maybe it does help some people. And maybe they never actually had the disorder in question/were misdiagnosed. It's hard to say.

It's also important to remember, especially as having bipolar, that we have a big tendency to think we are ok, and don't need this anymore when things are going well. And there usually *are* times when things are going well. And in that time, we doubt our diagnosis, (maybe even go off meds, how common is this, yes?) I can't help but wonder if some of these people who feel they are "cured" are just actually in a remission phase? Sometimes they last for years, after all.

That said, one of my biggest skeptic points are testimonials from a site selling something. Surely they will only put good things on their site, right?

When you say "manic" (as opposed to hypomanic), I assume you have BP I. (Yes?) Whether it is I, II or NOS, the consequences can be very serious, you know? All of this isn't necessarily to discourage you, but to advise serious caution.

(For the record, my personal experience...Went to P-doc. When she recommended meds, I didn't want to. Heck, I was hypomanic, and what better time to be in denial, eh? So, when I refused, she advised supplements to at least try. I dutifully went right out, got them and took them religiously. Well, you guessed it -- then came the crash. I realized I really *did* need meds and that the supplements weren't working for me at all in regard to mood. At that point it was a real scramble to get my head somewhere reasonable and keep me from offing myself. Granted, this is only my experience, but you can see why it worries me. I was finally compelled to write simply out of concern for your wellbeing. Maybe it will work. Then more power to you. Just approach with caution, be safe and don't be stubborn if it isn't working. Act before you get in too deep, ok?)

Wishing only the best for you, keep us posted, ok?

[spiritual_emergency]

Innerzone: That said, one of my biggest skeptic points are testimonials from a site selling something. Surely they will only put good things on their site, right?

I just wanted to clarify, the testimonial was posted at a bipolar support forum. The poster didn't provide a link to the site that sells the supplements, they only mentioned it by name. I'm the one who ran that through a search engine, located the company's website and linked it in the post above.

It's always possible that the individual who provided the testimony was an agent of the supplement site but it's also possible that they are someone who genuinely suffered with bipolar disorder and found an effective means of managing it without the use of traditional medications. I frequently recommend the work of Jungian, John Weir Perry, to those who have experienced psychosis/a schizophrenic episode because I found it to be helpful but I'm certainly not getting any kickbacks from the publisher if someone buys his books or goes to see a Jungian analyst in their home town. It's also apparent to me that not everyone benefits from a Jungian approach.

At any rate, people can explore the links above and make their own decisions. Ideally, they should make those decisions in conjunction with their support teams (Professionals; Family and Friends; Peers, and; Mentors). Family, friends and peers in particular are often well-placed to provide valuable feedback in regard to daily functioning. In all cases, I would emphasize that the goal of any treatment is to improve or restore function -- if that's not happening, that particular treatment cannot be said to be effective for that individual even if it works well for someone else.

Thanks for clarifying, spiritual_emergency.

Originally Posted by spiritual_emergency

At any rate, people can explore the links above and make their own decisions. Ideally, they should make those decisions in conjunction with their support teams (Professionals; Family and Friends; Peers, and; Mentors). Family, friends and peers in particular are often well-placed to provide valuable feedback in regard to daily functioning. In all cases, I would emphasize that the goal of any treatment is to improve or restore function -- if that's not happening, that particular treatment cannot be said to be effective for that individual even if it works well for someone else.

Totally agree.

[beautifulmadness]

I have been on psych meds since I was 29 ( i am now 48) and have been on just about every one of them out there. I used to quit my meds on a regular basis only to end up in the hospital far worse than I was before stopping. I tried to self medicate and it didn't work either. My brother who is also Bipolar refused meds for the past probably 8 years as he didn't want to lose his "creative side". He is now back on meds and seeing a therapist and is so much better. I will gladly take my 3 med cocktail til the day I die .. I like being in control of my life and actually living instead of existing.
((((hugs))))
~beautiful madness~

[BNLsMOM]

I suffered for years without knowing I had bipolar. I only ever get hypomanic, but I have left so many jobs, I can't remember them all. I kept moving from home to home, got divorced, had no money and struggled for many years, ruining my self esteem. Once I finally got some help, I have hope that I can still live a productive life after a recovery period and a good medication combo. I know it will take a while, but for the first time I have hope and an explanation for my past behavior.

[leah0306]

Originally Posted by NinjaSidekick

Any tips? What works for you? I've been sort of self-medicating to get through the rough days (like right now)...just coming off of a classic episode of mania with about $3k less in my bank account and lots of new friends that will probably not like me after they meet "the other half"
It was a fun ride, I wish it could have lasted forever. I feel like it's not fair...it's not fair to the people in my life that I've gotten close to and that fell in love with my personality while I was manic. How can I expect them to also like me when I'm not manic? How will I ever find a career that will suit both sides of me? I'm so frustrated with this half. I feel like it's going to ruin everything that was great.
Anyone else feel like this?

IM CURRENTLY BEEN OFF MEDS SINCE FEB. AND DO FEEL INSAND AT TIMES, UNFORTUNATLY, FOR ME I DO THINK I DO A BIT BETTER WITH MEDS. i TOO WENT WITHOUT FOR FINANCIAL REASONS, SHAME MENTAL HEALTH CARES SO FAR DOWN THE LIST ON REFORM FOR US. BEST WISHES, TAKE CARE

[romanjames2004]

living wiht bipolar while not being medicated is very frustrating. I don't take any medications only becasue I am afraid i won't be in control of myself and being in control is like my thing. I was origanly diagnosed with Major Depression but only becasue I only told my doc half the truth. Iwas diagnosed when i was still a minor so I had no say in what medications I took and my mom didnt think I should be on any psych drugs becasue my dad abused them. So I have coped as best as I can with therapy , my own thoughts, exercise (is the second best) and music / dancing 9best). i feel that this site is also a grat resource. I have noticed that by just spending 15 minutes on here is a grat experiance. I still have spending problems and aall that but I cope the best way i can. If you ever need t talk just message me.

I hope everything goes well for you.

Roman

Originally Posted by NinjaSidekick

Any tips? What works for you? I've been sort of self-medicating to get through the rough days (like right now)...just coming off of a classic episode of mania with about $3k less in my bank account and lots of new friends that will probably not like me after they meet "the other half"
It was a fun ride, I wish it could have lasted forever. I feel like it's not fair...it's not fair to the people in my life that I've gotten close to and that fell in love with my personality while I was manic. How can I expect them to also like me when I'm not manic? How will I ever find a career that will suit both sides of me? I'm so frustrated with this half. I feel like it's going to ruin everything that was great.
Anyone else feel like this?

I have a business w my wife where in I work alone for myself and therefore can not be fired. Meds (13 of them) did not work for me so gave up on them. Meds help many of us. Best I think combined w GOOD Pdoc. Might help you? I hesitate to give advise as other mental things make me a poor reporter... anyway been off meds 10 or 20 yrs and just tough'n it out through lows which seem permament and sailing through highs on short short cycles. Hope you'rs are at least more predictable. still new to this place and so far see it as an oasis

Interesting thread. Thanks for asking the question. Im really keen on if it is possible to survive without meds, I have been on them for 10 years now and I really worry about long term effects. I think I am just at the beginning of my journey to accepting that this is part of me, and how I can effectively handle it.