[ultramar]

As is typical with Bipolar Disorder, on this forum there is a variety of frequency with which people cycle/go into episodes (depression, hypo/mania, mixed). Of course frequency may vary in a given person as well, depending on different factors, so this is just an approximation.

So this is a poll where you can indicate if you (on average) cycle: daily, 2 times a week, 1 time a week, 1 time a month, every 2 months, every 4 months, every 6 months, twice a year, once a year.

Looking forward to peoples' responses!

[Blue_Bird]

I voted every 6 months, I have normal ups and downs between them but there are two times where I have major episodes that last weeks to months. A horrible manic episode that lasts a few weeks and a deep depressive episode that I can't get out of for months.

[Trippin2.0]

I voted twice month but I'd thought I'd comment that those are (usually) managable cycles. I do however on average also have 2 major depressions a year, hospital grade episodes, although I've only ever agreed to hospitalization once and even then checked myself out after 24hrs.

[Victoria'smom]

I put every 4 mths but that's solely because my episodes last so long. November through mid-December I get depressed, end of December-march I'm bat ***** crazy. In between they aren't that bad more like my most recent flip out but non-violent. Those last a month or 2. I use to cycle a lot harder and faster with a normal in between with out meds.

usually daily- well, i say daily.. those are just manageable highs and lows

i'd say twice a week for really extreme

[A Red Panda]

I put every 2 months...

It's a guess. Sometimes my cycle will last for a few weeks, sometimes it'll last months. Sometimes I go a few weeks between going into a new episode, sometimes I can go months.

I'm not very experienced with tracking my hypomanias officially though. I do know that last year I went in an out of depression multiple times (I don't always go depression-base-hypo.... I often go depression base depression base depression.... Hypomanic episodes are less common for me.)

[HopeForChange]

I picked once per year, though I have schizoaffective disorder, so I do have some lingering delusions between those episodes. When I do have an episode, though, they're pretty rough on me. With my depressions, I can sleep up to 20 hours a day for days on end, and with my manias I totally lose control of myself and become extremely paranoid, grandiose, etc. Luckily the manias usually respond to Seroquel and within about a week on Seroquel, I'm close to my baseline state again. If only I were better at recognizing the manias earlier and starting the Seroquel then, I could probably avoid most of them...hindsight's 20/20, though. Ideally I'd just be able to take Seroquel daily and prevent the manias altogether, but when I was taking it daily, I gained 100lbs and it started to lose effectiveness. Anyway, I'm rambling, but that's how it works for me,

Best,
Hope

I picked once a year because for the last few years I have been stable and only really experienced depression while on these meds, I think it has been 2 episodes of major depression in 3 years. Before that I was always on or off meds so the cycle was hard to monitor. Over the last 5 years or so I have never had more than one hypo a year, lasting from 3 weeks to a couple months, then depression for months (longer and more intense than hypos)

I get so confused, I didnt realise it could cycle so quickly from day to day week to week. The only time I was like that was when I was on high doses of AD and in hopsital, there was no way I could be "free" when I was cycling that fast, getting that high then dropping to suicidal lows. I was told that was caused by medication, I had no idea it could occur 'naturally' too in BP. Now this worries me, can my BP evolve into a super rapid cycling BP?? Or am I pretty safe having the pattern I do, will that not change?

[BipolaRNurse]

I chose every 2 months, simply because I went through so many cycles in the past couple of years and have only found a measure of stability over the past three months. I have one or two nasty depressions a year on average, but they seldom last longer than a few weeks.

Mania and hypomania are more of a problem; my basic personality is sort of over-amped anyway, so it's hard for me to figure out when I'm actually hypomanic. It's only when I'm into manic territory that I think hmmm, maybe I'm a little hypo? and of course by that time I'm driving everyone up the wall because I can't sit still or shut up, or I'm ripping people's heads off and shouting down the hole. THAT happens in the spring and summer months and it tends to last awhile.

[A Red Panda]

Originally Posted by Supanova

I get so confused, I didnt realise it could cycle so quickly from day to day week to week. The only time I was like that was when I was on high doses of AD and in hopsital, there was no way I could be "free" when I was cycling that fast, getting that high then dropping to suicidal lows. I was told that was caused by medication, I had no idea it could occur 'naturally' too in BP. Now this worries me, can my BP evolve into a super rapid cycling BP?? Or am I pretty safe having the pattern I do, will that not change?

Rapid cycling is definied as having 4 or more episodes a year.

I wouldn't worry about your pattern changing. The faster the cycling the rarer it is for BP I think - but on the boards there seems to be a lot more of the really rapid cyclers (probably cause I can imagine it being a lot less predictable!) and there's also a lot of BP comorbid with BPD, which might result in a lot more frequent episode swings.

Thanks. I forgot about the BPD factor, I didnt think the mood swings were the same so didnt count as a bi polar cycle. So when people say that they are swinging daily and weekly they are talking about BPD rather than BP, and those that cycle more slowly are true to BP?

[A Red Panda]

Originally Posted by Supanova

Thanks. I forgot about the BPD factor, I didnt think the mood swings were the same so didnt count as a bi polar cycle. So when people say that they are swinging daily and weekly they are talking about BPD rather than BP, and those that cycle more slowly are true to BP?

That isn't precisely what I'm saying. I don't know who put in those votes and thus I have ZERO idea what they're dealing with! They could very well ONLY be diagnosed with bipolar - it can in fact be the case but it is a lot more rare.

All I am saying is that non-rapid-cycling bipolar has fewer than 4 episodes per year. Rapid cycling has 4 or more.

When you add in BPD, I think you're more likely to be dealing with triggers that could ultimately result in an actual depression or hypomanic state. (I certainly find myself in episodes if I've been getting triggered enough). Those episodes may last a shorter time due to a consistent exposure to various triggers, but they would still be a bipolar episode if it persists. BPD episodes tend to last less than a day, so annnnny cycling that takes more than a day truly would not be BPD.

I could have sworn I wrote a reply to this yesterday, but it's not here. I said every 4 months because that is probably what I have averaged over the last few years. But this time I've gone almost 6 months and am hoping that may be a sign things are improving. I know I have progressed through therapy which has helped immensely.

Not sure I answered correctly at all...I put 6 months. I have mania trying to burst through for about 6 months then the depression kicks in for about 6 months...just started my depressive phase a couple of weeks ago

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

That isn't precisely what I'm saying. I don't know who put in those votes and thus I have ZERO idea what they're dealing with! They could very well ONLY be diagnosed with bipolar - it can in fact be the case but it is a lot more rare.

All I am saying is that non-rapid-cycling bipolar has fewer than 4 episodes per year. Rapid cycling has 4 or more.

When you add in BPD, I think you're more likely to be dealing with triggers that could ultimately result in an actual depression or hypomanic state. (I certainly find myself in episodes if I've been getting triggered enough). Those episodes may last a shorter time due to a consistent exposure to various triggers, but they would still be a bipolar episode if it persists. BPD episodes tend to last less than a day, so annnnny cycling that takes more than a day truly would not be BPD.

Rapid cycling is '4 or more' but I don't think the 'more' extends to daily/weekly, I don't think that's the intention of that parameter from what I have read. Maybe 5, 6, 7 episodes, that sort of thing. I think daily, weekly, even monthly, is very uncommon for bipolar -unless your meds are really out of whack. I think if one is cycling daily, weekly, etc. it's something else going on (perhaps in addition to bipolar or because someone is not yet able to distinguish bipolar episodes from other moods). This kind of frequency I think is generally due to triggers (non-bipolar, maybe BPD), screwed up meds (i.e. AD's w/o mood stabilizers), or not being able to distinguish, as I say.

'Rapid cycling' is not daily, weekly, etc. It would be a rare form of bipolar or something else (see above).

I think if you have BPD in addition to bipolar, *some* of what may seem like bipolar episodes, are triggered mood swings, thus the frequency, whereas the co-morbid bipolar would constitute longer and far less frequent types of moods (re 'episodes').

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

That isn't precisely what I'm saying. I don't know who put in those votes and thus I have ZERO idea what they're dealing with! They could very well ONLY be diagnosed with bipolar - it can in fact be the case but it is a lot more rare.

All I am saying is that non-rapid-cycling bipolar has fewer than 4 episodes per year. Rapid cycling has 4 or more.

When you add in BPD, I think you're more likely to be dealing with triggers that could ultimately result in an actual depression or hypomanic state. (I certainly find myself in episodes if I've been getting triggered enough). Those episodes may last a shorter time due to a consistent exposure to various triggers, but they would still be a bipolar episode if it persists. BPD episodes tend to last less than a day, so annnnny cycling that takes more than a day truly would not be BPD.

My understanding is that BPD moods can definitely last for more than a day. You can have a pervasive depression (even though triggers may lead to momentary other moods, i.e. irritability, but depression still underlying and long-lasting). Euphoria, I would think, could last for some time, especially in the context of a new relationship when you might be idealizing someone.

So I think (though multiple daily triggers could bring someone up and down) underlying BPD moods can last for some time, especially depression. And bipolar moods lasting for only a week --it happens, of course, just not very common.

[Trippin2.0]

Uhm I'd just like to butt in here again. I cycled weekly for 2 years while medicated. I was on a MS an AP and an AD the whole time. So while it may not be the norm, ultra rapid cycling or even ultradian cycling is not only caused by BPD or incorrect meds, it does happen of its own volition and I find it quite invalidating for folks who've never experienced it to basically say "its not real" and I imagine the members struggling with it currently may feel so too. This every other week gig I have now is a sweet deal to me, still faster than usual, but slower than it was, and in no way mixed up with bpd or whatnot. My bp runs on a schedule, while bpd awaits a button pusher...

Ok I've said my piece

[ultramar]

But then how do you explain, from what I have seen, that most people with ultradian-rapid cycling have co-morbid BPD? There has to be some reason for that?

[Victoria'smom]

I think most of us would be classified as rapid cyclers.

[Trippin2.0]

I'm not trying to explain, never claimed to, I'm not a Dr am I? All I asked was that us with comorbid BPD not all be thrown under one blanket and have the Ultradian cycling explained away as if its some mythological creature.

I can't speak for everyone and won't presume to, I said MY cycling the way I(!) reported on this thread was pure BP and that I'm sure others like me may feel invalidated.

Also, who's to say BPD doesn't play a role in the way BP cycles manifest? What if the cycling is still "pure" but somehow BPD puts us on an Ultradian scale?...

Anyway its nearly 4am and I should atleast pretend to do that sleep thingy. All I meant to say was don't assume and generalize, just because you haven't experienced it doesn't make it any less real.

Studies report its rare, but they don't cover all people, we don't all fit into lovely neat cookie cutter molds do we?

I'm not supposed to have mixed episodes or psychosis either, but go figure.

Night ya'll

[cool09]

I have no idea how to answer that. Most of the time I never know how I'm going to feel 10 minutes from now. And I base my life around that which is impossible. I did have some kind of positive experience (ie even moods) with tegretol (July-Aug) and even after I stopped it (lots of annoying side effects plus incredible tiredness) I continue to feel decent improvement (which surprises me) with decreased racing thoughts and putting thoughts together (especially social situations).

I'm glad college days are over for me because they were a complete *****. Don't know how I survived.

[A Red Panda]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Also, who's to say BPD doesn't play a role in the way BP cycles manifest? What if the cycling is still "pure" but somehow BPD puts us on an Ultradian scale?...

That's so what I was trying to get at!

Bipolar can be ultraradian without comorbid BPD.
Bipolar can be ultraradian with comorbid BPD.

Bipolar episodes can in fact be triggered - it might not happen as quickly. I certainly know that if I spend a few weeks feeling overwhelmed/busy/stressed out that I'm going to either end up in a depression or a hypomanic episode. Same with I've even read a lot on here how people can induce their own manias by pulling all-nighters.

BPD happens to result in triggers probably having a bigger effect, and quicker. So what might take weeks to trigger me into an episode might only take a day or part of the day to trigger someone with comorbid BPD into an actual bipolar depression/mania.

I think ultraradian cycling without BPD is probably the most rare, but it's certainly out there. And until the docs figure out a sure-fire test to go "yep, you've got bipolar!" then there's absolutely nothing to prove it one way or another!

[FireBird]

Mine varies each year. Most of the year was actually a psychotic break (9 months) with some depression but the depression continues but the psychosis is mostly over. I did have a break from the depression when I had a manic episode in the hospital. Only 1 manic episode that lasted around a week, and depression for most of the year. Some years I have more than 4 episodes of mania and depression but mainly depression. Some years I have more psychosis than mood symptoms (I am actually schizoaffective disorder bipolar type rather than bipolar disorder). My psychosis was the most severe this year and getting worse each and every year. But even though my stress gets worse every year, my worst depression was several years ago where it physically slowed me down to near catatonia for months. I was able to move and talk but no feelings, walked so slowly that most people can't walk that slow (unless they are ancient and using a walker), crying all the time, being confused most of the time and other symptoms.

[~Christina]

I am not sure exactly how often I cycle. Reason being My pain is a huge issue and it effects my Bipolar . Then top it off with unrelenting Insomnia well how could I possible answer your poll ?

Bipolar is such a unique thing. I honestly don't give a damn about DSM guidelines .. They are not " real time" They are used as a tool for a doctor to submit a bill to insurance companies for payment. Even most Doctors roll there eyes about the damn waste of time "guidelines"

I know you bring up how rare it is for people to rapid cycle and ultra cycle etc .. But your only taking in to consideration what a " study" says .. Not what the real world numbers could be, there are more people not treated for Bipolar than that are. I went 30+ plus years before I was actually given a diagnosis .. My mood were ridiculous but not reported so I seriously have doubts about just how accurate these "studies" really are

I'm sure there are many people that do fit into a perfect slot .. But most don't so who really gives a damn ? and If you do .. Please explain to me what the big deal or hyper interest is about it? Of course only if you want to share.

I mean no offense with my reply I am just curious.

[medicalfox]

I put every two months although I'm not sure the exact occurrence for each episode since they seem to last for quite some time.