[hamster-bamster]

I am on it and for the most part happy, except that it dulls me sexually and it does not prevent elevation altogether - I still use Zyprexa prn. The latter part is ok by me - I can use some goal-directed drivenness, extra sensory sensitivity, and basically enjoy getting things done. But I would like to have unaffected sexuality. So I am looking into Tegretol/Trileptal. They were originally developed for seizure disorders.

lithium is used a bit outside of BP, but for the most part it is a bp drug and it started off as such.

I have scrolled through thread titles, seeing drug names I don't recognize, but - just scanning posts - they appear to be new AP's.

are there still no new drugs that have been developed specifically for the manic depressive illness? None at all? Everything is a seizure or schizo drug later approved for bp by the FDA (or similar authorities outside of US)? Plus anxiolytics and AD's.

Why is manic depression such an elusive subject that nobody even tries to come up with a decent drug to treat it?

[Trippin2.0]

Yes Lithium is, and I have no clue why there aren't any new BP drugs yet. Its part of what makes me never want to restart the Medi Go-Round... Maybe I'm just too much of a skeptic or maybe just too careful with what goes inside my body

Yeah Im interested to know more about why Lithium is so popular and not some of the newer meds. My pdoc said it was the most effective in stabilising moods. I dont care, Im not going on it. I have been stable in the past on Lamictal, Seroquel and Zeldox/Geodon. (I only stopped lamictal because of the cost, Seroquel because of the dumbarseness and weightgain, and I am still on Zeldox and dont intend to change)

[hamster-bamster]

Zeldox/Geodon rendered me asexual. And, not that I knew it then but now that I am off it, suppressed creativity. Lithium, compared to Geodon, is a little lamb - it only dulls me a bit. Dulls sexually and dulls emotionally, but a bit. Everybody responds differently, but for me, I'd rather stay away from regular use of antipsychotics. Prn is ok for me, but not on a daily basis.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Supanova

Yeah Im interested to know more about why Lithium is so popular and not some of the newer meds. My pdoc said it was the most effective in stabilising moods. I dont care, Im not going on it. I have been stable in the past on Lamictal, Seroquel and Zeldox/Geodon. (I only stopped lamictal because of the cost, Seroquel because of the dumbarseness and weightgain, and I am still on Zeldox and dont intend to change)

Between Zeldox and Lamictal, the latter is far more benign. And generic Lamotrigine is far cheaper than generic Zeldox, no?

Nope, not here, Lamictal is much more expensive than Zeldox. I can get Zeldox on the PBS ($5.90) but not Lamictal. I've found the zeldox more effective for my depressions than lamictal ever was. Lamictal was ok as long as I had a higher dose antidepressant and longer acting stimulant with it. I do intend to come off Zeldox when I can but Im not at that stage yet.

My creativity is gone with any meds, and my sex life was great (although the new OCD drug has lowered the drive a little), I dont have a sedative or weight affect with Zeldox like I did with Seroquel. Lamictal made me a little slow, not as slow as seroquel. I know the meds I have been on have probably damaged my brain, I didnt know any better at the time. I only seem to get noticeable cognitive effects on higher doses of Zeldox but I lower the dose whenever I can.

I've had very minimal side effects from Zeldox, it is the drug that changed my life, so I am forever thankful for it. I wish I didnt need to be on something so strong but without it I end up in hospital. The goal is med free in a few years but I still need work to get there.

[venusss]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Yes Lithium is, and I have no clue why there aren't any new BP drugs yet. Its part of what makes me never want to restart the Medi Go-Round... Maybe I'm just too much of a skeptic or maybe just too careful with what goes inside my body

why make new drugs when you can off label APs?

which work like some eastern european medicines (still sick, but so high you don't care... or on case of APs, zonked out enough not to get in trouble... and hard to get in trouble when you sleep 15 hours a day and spend the rest eating everything that doesn't ran away or is not locked).

[Trippin2.0]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

why make new drugs when you can off label APs?

which work like some eastern european medicines (still sick, but so high you don't care... or on case of APs, zonked out enough not to get in trouble... and hard to get in trouble when you sleep 15 hours a day and spend the rest eating everything that doesn't ran away or is not locked).

I hear ya

There isn't a "need" for it is there?
Tranqing us works, so why not use whatever is already available to knock you out cold.

Speaking of which, OMG!!!!

So I've been "seeing" my old pdoc just so he can get me in with a T... Last week I was super exhausted because my sleep has been really shyt the last 4 weeks, so out of desperation I thought I'm going to knock myself out with one of his pills.

I took 1 pill venus, 1mg of Risperdal and I was out cold for 16hrs. Gosh imagine if I had to go to work???

Hated, HATED that foggy groggy feeling, I think its known as an AP hangover(?) So I will not do that again. No way.

Idk how I used these pills before? Oh wait I dooo, I drank energy drinks in order to keep my job.

I'm glad people find them helpful, but its definitly not for me, not this daily med management stuff anyway.

Ooh ooh, sorry to derail hammy, but I tried pdoc's klonopins 1 evening when I was alone and in a very unsafe state of mind... That actually impressed me. I'm not ashamed to say.

I'm considering using it as a prn for severe episodes. But now I have to make up shyt for my appointment because he obviously told me to use it daily. Guess I can just go with the generic "my anxiety has subsided and I haven't had a panic attack since the last time we spoke" reply...

He doesn't need a more detailed account of my experience with klonopin, he likes throwing meds at us. He just wants to know if it works, and while Idk the answer to if it works daily, I do think that I'd like to keep them in my RX just in case, because they calmed me down nicely and allowed me to sleep, so seems pretty useful to have in an emergency...

[Nightside of Eden]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

why make new drugs when you can off label APs?

which work like some eastern european medicines (still sick, but so high you don't care... or on case of APs, zonked out enough not to get in trouble... and hard to get in trouble when you sleep 15 hours a day and spend the rest eating everything that doesn't ran away or is not locked).

I'm on an AAP (Zyprexa) for my bipolar and don't feel like this at all. I still sleep 7 hours a night and am no hungrier than usual. I'm just less depressed and moody.

From my own research and talking to my doctor, I gather no one knows exactly why and how Lithium or Depakote work to stabilize moods, which is probably why it's so hard for them to develop new mood stabilizers. Though Lamictal is new-ish and helps a lot of people.

[venusss]

Eden, you know I exaggerate often At least I didn't bring in nukes, cold war, libya and intifada this time.

From my own research and talking to my doctor, I gather no one knows exactly why and how Lithium or Depakote work to stabilize moods, which is probably why it's so hard for them to develop new mood stabilizers. Though Lamictal is new-ish and helps a lot of people.

I wish more people admitted "we don't know". I want to burn **** intifada style (here I go) each time I hear people "my doctor told me I have chemical imbalance".

[HALLIEBETH87]

It *is* strange how anticonvulsants and drugs for schizophrenia for bp is it?

[vjdragonfly]

Don't know too much about a lot of the medicines out there. I was on Lithium for quite some time and I was still having issues, plus i have chronic back pain and all you can take with Lithium is Tylenol . After a while they added Lamictal and it helped a lot so they dropped the Lithium and I am still doing good. I notice a lot of ppl have issues with taking there meds, for me, it has brought me to a place that I am well and feel life is worth living again.

[Nightside of Eden]

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

I wish more people admitted "we don't know". I want to burn **** intifada style (here I go) each time I hear people "my doctor told me I have chemical imbalance".

This is one thing I like about my doctor--he regularly admits he really doesn't know how different things work. I assume I have a chemical imbalance because drugs mostly correct my problems, but it's true that we don't know the mechanism behind this. I've always personally believed that there may be multiple different causes for what we call "bipolar disorder". We still are forced to diagnose by symptoms alone, which is notoriously inaccurate for pinpointing other problems in medicine. I hope research will someday actually identify the cause or causes of bipolar disorder and then maybe there can be truly valid and logical treatments. For now we're all shooting in the dark to some degree.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Supanova

Nope, not here, Lamictal is much more expensive than Zeldox. I can get Zeldox on the PBS ($5.90) but not Lamictal. I've found the zeldox more effective for my depressions than lamictal ever was. Lamictal was ok as long as I had a higher dose antidepressant and longer acting stimulant with it. I do intend to come off Zeldox when I can but Im not at that stage yet.

My creativity is gone with any meds, and my sex life was great (although the new OCD drug has lowered the drive a little), I dont have a sedative or weight affect with Zeldox like I did with Seroquel. Lamictal made me a little slow, not as slow as seroquel. I know the meds I have been on have probably damaged my brain, I didnt know any better at the time. I only seem to get noticeable cognitive effects on higher doses of Zeldox but I lower the dose whenever I can.

I've had very minimal side effects from Zeldox, it is the drug that changed my life, so I am forever thankful for it. I wish I didnt need to be on something so strong but without it I end up in hospital. The goal is med free in a few years but I still need work to get there.

In the states, generic Zeldox retailed for more than 600 dollars in 2012. Lamotrigine - probably 35 bucks.

For me, there is a tremendous difference between being on heavyhitter AP's and being just on Lithium with Zyprexa prn, infrequently. I have creativity, passion, zest for life, a heightened sense of art appreciation and especially the awe of painters who know their way with color, and just overall heightened sensory awareness. And I can have orgasms, but they are a little dull. The world around me is vibrant, colorful, aesthetically and sensually pleasing, and creativity-inspiring. So, that on a medium dose of Lithium, but off Lithium it was even more so. In other words, Lithium produces, in me, some incremental changes. It does not take away the excitement and it does not make me-not-me - e.g. when I was young before all meds, I loved art, so it is a good sign for me that now I can go "wow!" when I see an amazing still life or urban landscape.

I was on heavy doses of Seroquel, Risperdal, and Zeldox/Geodon in the past, and remembering how the world was around me - well, I was going through the motions and the sun was shining, but not for me, and there was no creativity. I stopped antipsychotics when year 2013 started. Then, from end of Feb through late September 2013, I was off Lithium as well. I wrote a whole lot in 2013, and, being curious, I recently went through the files to determine when I first started writing (several people looked at the writing and said it was good, including a person whose adult child is a novelist). Well... I started writing in Jan. To me - again, in my case and of course everybody reacts differently - it proved the point that Lithium is not messing up my brain terribly to the point of making me not-me, but rather causes some adjustments, without eradicating my personality. Some of these adjustments are welcome - I don't need hospitalizations for mania, I am more organized so I hope to actually write books rather than continue generate ideas non-stop while being too sped up to develop them. Oh, and in Dec of 2012 when i was already tapering off Geodon, I started learning to make jewelry, remembering a class I took in 2006, before antipsychotics. So the timeline shows the connection between creativity suppression by antipsychotics IN ME. Also, until the fall of 2012, I was a victim of mental abuse (it took me a very long time to realize it, which, I am sure, caused frustration to people who were on here in 2011 and 2012 and plainly saw the situation for what it was, but could not get through to me). I am sure that freeing myself from that enabled me to get creative as well, but still the timeline is very clear - antipsychotics, in me, do really severe things to the brain, but Lithium doesn't. Maybe Tegretol, not being an AP, won't, either. Before trying it, though, I will ask for a lower dose of Lithium (now 900 mg).

I have a friend, Max, who tried to talk me out of taking AP's. He is a mathematician, but well read in the area of psychiatry and psychology. He was saying that for a bipolar person, it is ok to take Lithium, and Lithium does not change how the brain works in MAJOR ways, whereas AP's do. I do not have psychosis, but per the test Max applies, even having psychosis is not justification per se. "If you hear MALEVOLENT voices, then you need to take AP's, and you do not hear any voices. " I didn't listen to Max, convinced (gaslighted) by now ex husband that I was completely insane and in need of strong medications, the stronger the better.

Kay Jamison, who is bipolar and on Lithium alone, writes good books, so that is a datapoint for me that it can be done. Quite possibly there are painters, sculptors, and writers who take AP's, but due to stigma, not talk about it. I don't discount this possibility, but again, the only public example I know and trust is Kay Jamison, and she is an excellent writer. In the past, I wondered if anybody, like Jamison, manages bipolar on Lithium alone, and per the responses, for most people the answer was "no". At that time the possibility of being off AP's (I mean, here and elsewhere, off maintenance AP's and not PR) seemed like impossible but desirable future, but now I am living it and it is not bad at all, but I want even better.

Interestingly enough,

http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...-schizophrenia,

Makes exactly the same point my friend Max made in 2009, in that not all psychosis should be medicated. It depends on individual circumstances.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by HALLIEBETH87

It *is* strange how anticonvulsants and drugs for schizophrenia for bp is it?

It is strange. But Venus is right in that off-labeling and eventually getting approval is way more lucrative than starting from scratch to develop something new. My question is why even in a research setting, in academia, nobody asked themselves this question.

To put a positive spin on it, I am glad to have such an enigmatic condition that nobody has a clue

[venusss]

You came a long way, Hamster. It's inspirational seeing you to find yourself despite all the odds.

Originally Posted by VenusHalley

why make new drugs when you can off label APs?

which work like some eastern european medicines (still sick, but so high you don't care... or on case of APs, zonked out enough not to get in trouble... and hard to get in trouble when you sleep 15 hours a day and spend the rest eating everything that doesn't ran away or is not locked).

My pdoc switched me over to latuda because geodon made me too drowsy. Latuda works beautifully for me with no side effects.

[Cocosurviving]

My body does well on Lithium and in fact most have it. I was tapered off it and had an episode two weeks later. I resulted in me being hospitalized. I had to get back on Lithium. I began a Risperdal (AP) as a second mood stabilizer and ended up learn it had a side effect of decreased sex drive which was great. I was working my bf over. LOL. I then had to start a third mood stabilizer, Lamectal. Unfortunately I have severe bipolar 1 with extreme mania. My symptoms still break through a bit a have to try hard to contain myself. But Lithium has REALLY helped me a great deal. I would be a felon if I was not on Lithium that or dead.

Sent from The Land of Golden Sunshine using Tapatalk

[TheHuffnpuff]

Hello I'm new here, thought I'd share my limited experiences with meds. I was on Sodium Valproate at first, I was stable on it but felt like it impaired my cognitive function. I really struggled in conversations, I couldn't think of anything to say. I'm on 2.5mg Zyprexa now and don't feel too bad cognitively, I'm just very lazy, putting on weight, and really struggle getting out of bed in the mornings. I can stop taking them altogether for a few days and feel great, and then start taking them again and feel lethargic again. I take them to keep my wife happy, she thinks if I miss one pill I'll become instantly insane. I don't tell her when I stop.