[bpfarmerswife]

I'm still trying to come to grips with husband of 21 yrs having an affair. Here's the shortened version of what all has happened:
Caught husband with a prepaid cell phone. He kept telling me "it wasn't him" and that he could never have done this to our family. There was no sex, but was kissing involved. They talked and texted for first month, second month would meet and speak at Walgreens, Walmart, road at bank. Then SHE asked to meet at public park. This is where SHE asked him to kiss her. (he stands outside of her car) Then third month SHE asks if theres a more private place they could meet. So they start mtg for her lunch hr a couple days a week and sit in her car. SHE ADMITTED TO GETTING A PHONE FIRST, ASKING TO MEET, ASKING FOR KISS

He started taking diet pills and pdoc said that caused stimulant induced mania. We knew NOTHING about bipolar until the affair and we went to therapist because he attempted suicide and was cutting really bad. Tdoc brought up bipolar so we said yes in the family (Uncle was diagnosed manic depressive yrs ago and other Uncle committed suicide-he was hospitalized for depression prior to death) Pdoc then diagnosed husband with bipolar and manic episode.

During episode, he DID NOT think he was in an affair. Felt he was doing NOTHING wrong that it was ok to be doing. He thought of her as just a friend, not girlfriend, lover , etc. Says he feels nothing from it. No emotions, has very little memory of it, no feelings

Symptoms we now look back and see:

****THIS WAS ALL BEFORE WE KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT BIPOLAR

Dieting to extreme (lost weight really fast)

Excessive alcohol drinking

Exercising beyond normal capabilities

Grandiose thoughts (felt could ride bike unrealistic distance)

Playing music really loud

Buying music

Acting like teenager again (reverting back to youth?)

Inflated self esteem (thought everyone should notice weight loss)

Moody and very irritable

Did not take criticism well at all from me or his mother

Did not sleep well and was taking Benadryl to try to sleep


Does all this sound familiar to first manic episode and WAS IT POSSIBLE FOR HIM NOT TO KNOW HE WAS DOING THIS???? He said it felt like some sort of "force" was pushing him. This is all so way out of character for him. He is very remorseful and is doing better now. The psychiatrist prescribed him Seroquel and Depakote and diagnosed him as Bipolar II but because of full blown mania episode he said he was Bipolar I.

[Standup2me]

I am not too sure if I would say that he did not know what he was doing.
It is really more of a I am doing this but it is okay because I rule supreme, so nothing I do is wrong.
I am not saying having a God complex, I guess that I am trying to say that actions are all okay because they are mine and this is what I want here and now.

Am I making sense?

If there was no assumption of wrong doing on his part... I'd have to ask why he continued to use a prepaid cellphone.

[Speaking as someone who has been repeatedly diagnosed BP]

[wildflowerchild25]

I can't speak for your husband but speaking as someone who has experienced hypomania I can say that I absolutely knew what I was doing all the time. The question was whether I cares or not that it was wrong. I agree with the above poster - I would feel that I could not be touched and could do whatever I wanted because I was so awesome and no one else mattered. The only exception is when I became psychotic from my mania and believed someone was implanting thoughts in my head that I had to obey. That time I felt I had no control over my actions.

I have not cheated or even come close or even talked to another man in that capacity but when I am hypo I am MUCH more social.

So he may really have not realized what he was doing was cheating. Or thought that it wouldn't matter. But having bipolar is not an excuse for poor behavior. As long as he is accepting treatment for his condition it should not happen again. Work with him on identifying episodes so they can be caught before they get out of control. That way you can try to avoid another instance of cheating.

[Noodles_320]

From a male perspective I was married for 20 years and never once cheated on my wife. Did I have opportunity? Yes. Did I think about it? Yes. Any man who says they have never thought about it is not telling the truth.

You say you have been married for 21 years and this is the first episode? I just find that very interesting that this would be the first episode of mania. Never heard of anyone going that long without a manic episode.

Not sure of his age but is it possible that a combination of mid life crisis and a manic episode that just made this situation much more elevated?

From my experience being bipolar alone would not put you in a situation where you did not know what you were doing.

The alcohol is a no no....a normal person drinking can make bad decisions. Someone with BP and in a manic episode drinking tend to make horrible decisions.

I wish you all the best.

...also, thinking about it for a while:
I would seek out a second opinion.

If this was the first hypo/manic episode he has ever experienced to this degree at least, it sounds like it was induced by medication/stimulants.

In that case? It is difficult to discern whether he is actually bipolar or not. When you get down to the specifier- I, II, NOS... if the determination of BPI has been made on the occurrence of this episode? There is very little that you describe that actually would SOLIDLY put the episode into clear mania territory, as opposed to hypomania.

yeah, he was acting out of character, drinking excessively, all the things you listed.

But he wasn't CLEARLY acting so out of character that people around him noticed that something was drastically wrong until he started on the downswing [it sounds like]. That is- you don't mention psychosis, life endangering risks, hospitalization, trouble with the law.

I would seek out a second diagnosis to get some clarification on this- I'm kind of confused how he was diagnosed BPII but then BPI because of this episode if he has never before been dx'd BP.

If this was a case of substance-induced elevated mood, it seems like jumping the gun to prescribed an antipsychotic and a mood stabilizer... I had the impression from your description he wasn't even experiencing psychosis.
I'm not saying the DX is WRONG, but it's a good idea to double check

[r010159]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

...also, thinking about it for a while:
I would seek out a second opinion.

If this was the first hypo/manic episode he has ever experienced to this degree at least, it sounds like it was induced by medication/stimulants.

In that case? It is difficult to discern whether he is actually bipolar or not. When you get down to the specifier- I, II, NOS... if the determination of BPI has been made on the occurrence of this episode? There is very little that you describe that actually would SOLIDLY put the episode into clear mania territory, as opposed to hypomania.

yeah, he was acting out of character, drinking excessively, all the things you listed.

But he wasn't CLEARLY acting so out of character that people around him noticed that something was drastically wrong until he started on the downswing [it sounds like]. That is- you don't mention psychosis, life endangering risks, hospitalization, trouble with the law.

I would seek out a second diagnosis to get some clarification on this- I'm kind of confused how he was diagnosed BPII but then BPI because of this episode if he has never before been dx'd BP.

If this was a case of substance-induced elevated mood, it seems like jumping the gun to prescribed an antipsychotic and a mood stabilizer... I had the impression from your description he wasn't even experiencing psychosis.
I'm not saying the DX is WRONG, but it's a good idea to double check

I second this opinion! Very measured and reasonable. There is allot to gain (an accurate diagnosis) and nothing to lose (except perhaps some money for the appointment). JosieTheGirl has voiced some valid concerns that IMO need to be addressed.

[bpfarmerswife]

Thank you all for the good information. It helps to get input from others that's why I posted was to get help. All the things I listed I am told are classic symptoms of bipolar and all were happening at the time he was going through the episode. Yes myself and others around him noticed he was acting different but we contributed it to the fact that he was trying to diet and lose weight. There is bipolar in the family but WE NEVER KNEW TO LOOK FOR IT IN HIM. Being unmedicated and undiagnosed, we had no clue to watch for any of the symptoms during the episode. We know now to watch for all the signs. The psychiatrist has told us from our information giving on his history that he has had bipolar for years and having hypomanias all along and yes the stimulant brought out a severe manic episode. Therefore the dr said he would have been diagnosed as Bipolar II in past but because his episode was mania he gave him diagnosis of Bipolar I. His bipolar twisted the facts around in his head and convinced him it was ok to be seeing her even though he knew to hide the phone and keep it secret from me. I even confronted him half way thru the affair and he denied doing anything wrong. (typical bipolar to lie to keep doing the pleasurable activity) Dr said he thought from husband's recount of event that he possibly actually lost touch with reality and he was living out the fantasy his mind had created. Also I gave a shortened version but here is some more of the story. He's having these crazy images go thru his head.

Here are some examples of the flight of ideas he's been having:

-saw our dead dog with crepe paper coming out of nose and ears
-saw a man walk into our bedroom and go to husband's night stand
-saw all kinds of numbers and letters in equations, zooming across really fast, the sigma sign in lots of them
-saw an antique movie like would play with the reel jumping, scratched screen etc. all in black and white except for a red antique car in the movie
-saw black spiders everywhere, walls ceiling floor thousands and thousands of spiders
-saw blue lots of blue
-saw blue again with a very bright light then a scaly serpentine creature came out of nowhere and it was very bright too
-saw some kind of spatula, spoon and fork all plastic made together where the fork slid out from the spoon somehow
-saw a demon flying in the sky and it swooped down on him and they slid all the way down a driveway with dirt rooting up until they came to a stop with demon sitting on top of him
-asked me what was a "chick boom" I told him I didn't know why, he didn't see anyone but heard someone say it--no one there
-saw a person's head, not body just the head figurine
-saw a wall with all sorts of designs and emblems and a dial to turn in the middle of wall

There are many more but these are just a few. Have you experienced any of this? Dr said it is different from racing thoughts that these are flight of ideas. This all sounds very psychotic to me. I've never experienced this. And when this all first happened and I caught him and the guilt set in (took him several months for fog to lift -still is coming around to old self) he was very suicidal and went to a GP and this doc told him it wasn't normal to think about suicide and hubby told him yeah everybody thinks about it. Dr said no I don't! I have to say I don't think about suicide nor have I ever cut myself. He has scars really bad on wrists, forearm and ankles(he started cutting there to hide so people would quit asking what happened). Something is definitely going on and it's more than just having a "normal affair".

[r010159]

I think I have experience with this "flight of ideas". It seemed real to me. But there was always a part of me that understood it to be not really happening. IMO I think it is psychotic if he is certain that these things were actually happening in real life.

FWIW

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

If there was no assumption of wrong doing on his part... I'd have to ask why he continued to use a prepaid cellphone.

[Speaking as someone who has been repeatedly diagnosed BP]

Good catch, Josie.

I have not taken diet pills, but I did take a supplement to increase cognitive abilities last year. After a few weeks I was hospitalized for not sleeping at all. I bet my supplement can be considered a stimulant, too.

My point is that most importantly, he should not take his weight loss supplements again. Does he realize that?

Unfortunately it sounds very familiar to me, a lot of similarities in symptoms...this happened to me when I was 43, I was diagnosed that year. None of my behaviors were 'normal' for me, it all came out of the blue. What is hard to understand is impairment in judgement that occurs. Something in me was telling me it was 'ok' even though I knew it wasn't. How could it possibly be ok to leave my teenage sons alone with their dad to pursue my 'true love' when I had basically lived for my sons all their lives? I'd been a stay at home mom. When I finally came down from the mania I realized all those thoughts were false, the depression that followed was pretty horrible, guilt and lots of time and effort to repair us all. I honestly can't explain that 'thing' that tells you its ok to do what you are doing when what you are doing isn't ok. Mania and depression are both powerful forces that make the person believe the lies the mind comes up with.

[bpfarmerswife]

Originally Posted by emomom

Unfortunately it sounds very familiar to me, a lot of similarities in symptoms...this happened to me when I was 43, I was diagnosed that year. None of my behaviors were 'normal' for me, it all came out of the blue. What is hard to understand is impairment in judgement that occurs. Something in me was telling me it was 'ok' even though I knew it wasn't. How could it possibly be ok to leave my teenage sons alone with their dad to pursue my 'true love' when I had basically lived for my sons all their lives? I'd been a stay at home mom. When I finally came down from the mania I realized all those thoughts were false, the depression that followed was pretty horrible, guilt and lots of time and effort to repair us all. I honestly can't explain that 'thing' that tells you its ok to do what you are doing when what you are doing isn't ok. Mania and depression are both powerful forces that make the person believe the lies the mind comes up with.

He was 43 also last yr when he got diagnosed. This was his first episode that we have caught. Psychiatrist said he's been having hypo's all along and yes we can look back and see that now. He had to have known what he was doing was wrong but yet his mind convinced him it was ok to be doing this. Pdoc said it was the bipolar at work (warping the truth to keep doing the pleasurable activity). He is so baffled at how he could do something that he would NEVER do in a normal state of mind. He has never wanted to have an affair (and yes I truly believe him when he says this). He keeps telling me over and over that HE did not want to do this. The psychiatrist told me he would put his own hand on the Bible and swear that my husband is telling the truth in that. It still hurts just the same. Thanks for your reply, it helps to hear from someone that has experienced a similar situation.

[outlaw sammy]

[quote=bpfarmerswife;3660832]I'm still trying to come to grips with husband of 21 yrs having an affair. Here's the shortened version of what all has happened:

NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF INSANITY! To ask if "knew" what he was doing during a manic episode - is like asking an epileptic if they "knew" what they were doing during a seizure. Your husband really means what he telling you about being sorry and out-of-control - but that's your "normal" husband speaking. The maniac does as he pleases because there are no rules, restrictions, consequences, inhibitions, reservations, et cetera. Only the delusional world of the maniac exists - trust me because I've been there countless times - and not by choice.

Remember your husband has a devastating illness. He needs your understanding.

[r010159]

Originally Posted by emomom

[part of post deleted]

I honestly can't explain that 'thing' that tells you its ok to do what you are doing when what you are doing isn't ok. Mania and depression are both powerful forces that make the person believe the lies the mind comes up with.

This is so true! I sometimes forget this myself.

Originally Posted by outlaw sammy

NOT GUILTY BY REASON OF INSANITY! To ask if "knew" what he was doing during a manic episode - is like asking an epileptic if they "knew" what they were doing during a seizure. Your husband really means what he telling you about being sorry and out-of-control - but that's your "normal" husband speaking.

I obviously don't speak for everyone diagnosed with both- but I really have to disagree on this one.

At some level and for at least some point of time, you understand what you are doing is wrong. At a certain point you may cease to have that insight. Again, by all the logic presented, the new phone [and therefore need for secrecy] makes little sense. So I have to suggest there was some knowledge of wrongdoing here- even if he feels very very guilty.

How to deal with these events, how to process them? It's not up to anyone but the OP and the spouse.
However, I would suggest not eschewing any responsibility from here forward in any way on anyone's part.

You both know what you are dealing with now. [Whether it is a diagnosed mood disorder, a hypersensitivity to stimulants... or the infamous "Door Number Three"]
Fool me once... right?

Obviously we have to take resonsibility for our actions, beg forgiveness, do the hard work to repair the relationships, and be vigilant of our moods to try and make sure we dont ever go too far up or down. Its a never ending process.

I do want to make clear there are and have been marital issues that weren't dealt with until my breakdown occurred. It wasn't just me. While I love my husband it's still a process.

[r010159]

Originally Posted by JosieTheGirl

I obviously don't speak for everyone diagnosed with both- but I really have to disagree on this one.

At some level and for at least some point of time, you understand what you are doing is wrong. At a certain point you may cease to have that insight. Again, by all the logic presented, the new phone [and therefore need for secrecy] makes little sense. So I have to suggest there was some knowledge of wrongdoing here- even if he feels very very guilty.

How to deal with these events, how to process them? It's not up to anyone but the OP and the spouse.
However, I would suggest not eschewing any responsibility from here forward in any way on anyone's part.

You both know what you are dealing with now. [Whether it is a diagnosed mood disorder, a hypersensitivity to stimulants... or the infamous "Door Number Three"]
Fool me once... right?

It seems that when I do something risky or senseless, I am living in the moment, with no thought of the consequences, none what-so-ever. So what I do can have a very different significance from what it were to have when I am in my "right mind".

[ConnectTheDots]

There is really no way to explain away or understand why your husband did what he did. Each of us is different, those of us dealing with bipolar don't fully understand those without it, either. I think a better question for you is why you want to know. What is it that you need to know to make sense out of what you need to do, how you need to react to it for yourself. Can he really believe what he is saying? Yes. I was diagnosed when I became so disconnected from reality that I couldn't tell if I was awake or asleep. Literally. So, this isn't about him. This is about you. I wish you the best of luck. This isn't an easy thing to work through. I know I work very hard every day to keep my life together for the people who love me. They will never understand that statement. You may not either. Whatever decisions you need to make for yourself and your family have to revolve around your tolerance for things and situations that are traditionally intolerable. Bipolar is not mood swings. Bipolar is much more.

[outlaw sammy]

YOU'RE ALL WONDERFUL! We try so very hard to make sense out of our bipolar disorder and those insane "episodic events," but it's really a waste of time. Chances are, I've lived with BP1for what it seems like forever, and I've tried so hard to "manage it," to "control it," to "negotiate with it," and now I'm just satisfied to survive it.

My full sympathies go out to both the bipolar husband and his wife - because each are VICTIMS of this illness in their own separate right. They need to work with each other in love and commitment; get counseling and information from the mental health professionals; and reach out to organizations and other support resources to get the moral and emotional support to weather this tragedy.

I was diagnosed with type 1 rapid-cycling bipolar disorder while in a state of manic-psychosis in May of 2001. Five months later, I was arrested by the FBI for some federal crimes over fifteen hundred miles away from my home in Denver. I was looking at 30 years federal prison time - but the verdict came back "not guilty by reason of insanity." Did I "know" what I was doing? Yes. Did I have any control over my actions? No. Did I know the difference between right and wrong? Absolutely not!

Don't blame the sufferer of bipolar disorder for their words or actions during their episodes.

[bpfarmerswife]

Again thank you all for your replies. It really is helpful to get insight from so many different views. We're reading as much textbook information as we can but it helps so much more to hear personal experiences. We are both trying to learn as much as possible about this illness and deal with the havoc it has caused in our family. Yes at the time he had to know to follow her pursuit and go buy a phone, yes he knew he was talking to her, meeting her etc. but he still says even though he was hiding all of this, he felt like there was nothing wrong with what he was doing. He describes it as he was just going through the motions with the force pushing him to do so. He has talked with another gentleman that the same thing happened to and he described it the same way. He also said he didn't feel he was doing anything wrong and his lasted about 6 months along with he described his was as though something was "pulling the levers" and he was just there.

Thanks again, and we welcome any advice you may have.

[shortandcute]

I have done everything on that list during mania.