[Bipolarchic14]

I did some research about "cures" for bipolar 2 disorder. I found an article about cutting out all refined sugars and caffeine for a year and after that, use in moderation. After this people with bipolar 2 ( idk if it would work the same with bp1) should not need meds as the condition corrects itself. When I first read the article on this and watched a YouTube video about mental disorders and nutrition, I dismissed it. Then I started thinking, my doctors compare the disorder to diabetes type 2, heart disease etc which in most cases is diet related. I think I wanted to dismiss this because this is going to be a really hard commitment. I decided that if I do not try it, it will always be a what if in the back of my mind. At worse, 365 days from now I will be thinner and free from a caffeine and sugar addition. This at least gives me some hope that I won't have to live the rest of my life with this disorder. Anyway, I just wanted to share this in case anyone else would like to challenge themselves with this commitment.

[Lobster Hands]

That would literally be hell for me,I like cooking to much. Good luck with it if it's what you want to do though.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk

[shortandcute]

Well, at least it's worth a try! I mean, it couldn't hurt. So I say, give it a try.

[Bipolarchic14]

Ya I heard the first few weeks are hell. Lobster hands, I love cooking too. This presents a new challenge for me but it should be fun coming up with meals with ingredients without refined sugar. After the initial pain of withdrawl, it should be much easier. Time will tell. Thanks for both of your responses.

[hamster-bamster]

The instinct that led you to dismiss this idea originally was probably right. Diabetes and heart disease are both very complex conditions with many factors, some genetic, and, some still unknown, and not at all simply diet-related. The same complex picture is bipolar. If a "cure" sounds too good to be true, it probably is. Caffeine in moderation has protective qualities (e.g. against Parkinson) and, coffee and tea are MAJOR sources of antioxidants in a typical diet. Bipolar is a spectrum disorder and the distinction between bpII and bpI is not even recognized in Britain. The idea that there is a cure for bp2 separately is just ludicrous. There is also what I propose to call overall sanity, which is mightily important. Cutting out all sugar will make you insane if you ever eat out, having to ask the restaurant about each ingredients they use.

To sum up, you will make your life harder and will suffer from a deficiency in antioxidants unless you make an all-out effort to substitute for what you will forego by not consuming caffeine (even dark chocolate, a majorly healthful product, has a bit of caffeine).

Originally Posted by Bipolarchic14

I did some research about "cures" for bipolar 2 disorder. I found an article about cutting out all refined sugars and caffeine for a year and after that, use in moderation. After this people with bipolar 2 ( idk if it would work the same with bp1) should not need meds as the condition corrects itself.

I'm sure that a healthy diet will improve anybody's quality of life. However, I disagree that cutting out refined sugars and caffeine will necessarily lead to a situation where someone with BP will not require medication. You are probably citing Michael Ellsberg's article on Forbes (How I Overcame Bipolar II (and Saved My Own Life) - Forbes).

Personally I was skeptical of his argument, and also got the sense that he was a bit of an egomaniac.

In short, while I personally have cut back on refined sugars and caffeine, I think that Ellsberg's approach to go off medication completely can be dangerous. I don't recommend his article as a lifestyle -- it's just one man's story. Also, I second pretty much everything that Hamster has said above (except for the fact that cutting out caffeine might lead to a loss of valuable antioxidants -- this is true, although you can substitute for the lost antioxidants by eating a balanced, varied diet).

[Bipolarchic14]

I understand it may be too good to be true but this diet for a year won't hurt me and in fact will improve my health. I will try going off the meds under the supervision of a pdoc and see what happens after the year is up...I am just trying to have some hope for a better future. And yes psychehedone, that is one that I found. I Also found a YouTube video that made sense. All the same i understand the skepticism. I dismissed it a couple months back. I started thinking the other day, how would we as a population know whether this will correct the problem without at least trying it. Maybe there are some studies that have looked into this but probably not too extensively and we still don't know a lot about it. So before I dismiss it, I am willing to be a Guinea pig since there really should not be any adverse side effects and I don't have much to lose. Additionally hamster bamster, I know I over simplified diet but my parents both contracted type two diabetes from being overweight and poor diet. My thin brother does not have it, and my overweight brother does. In this case diet appeared to be a factor so I am not willing to dismiss diet as a factor as of yet. I appreciate the feedback.

Originally Posted by Bipolarchic14

I started thinking the other day, how would we as a population know whether this will correct the problem without at least trying it. Maybe there are some studies that have looked into this but probably not too extensively and we still don't know a lot about it.

Of course, I agree that your health will probably improve from eating a more healthy diet. I was only expressing my concern that some people will see Ellsberg's (gimmicky, meandering, poorly written, and rather egomaniacal) article and see it as some kind of a magic pill. He oversimplified BP and seemed a little too smug about how he'd "beaten" the disorder.

It'd be interesting to see studies that can show, with any degree of conclusiveness, that the solution to bipolar disorder is cutting out "alcohol" and "refined sugar". Bipolar disorder, including BP2, exists in societies where alcohol and refined sugar (as we know it in the US) are not even consumed. BP is incredibly complex, and I'd appreciate a scientific explanation.

BP2 is not even one single disorder. It's an umbrella term for similar symptoms that manifest in an individual, for which the causes might be wildly different. Various other disorders, including psychological problems, can also mimic BP symptoms (hence they merit different treatment from the standard mood stabilizers and anticonvulsants used for BP). We don't know what caused Ellsberg's symptoms, and neither does he. And yet he made it sound like he'd conclusively beaten this one, homogeneous disorder. Very oversimplified. His experiments with a TON of supplements and drugs (taken simultaneously, and largely unsupervised) could be very unsafe, and at least merited a more clear disclaimer on his part.

Anyway, keep us posted. I wish you the best of luck.

[hamster-bamster]

My normal weight dad was dx'd with diabetes last year. He has always eaten well.

What you are saying about testing this approach makes little sense, because in the past there was much less refined sugar in the diet, and yet bipolar existed. Have you read "touched with fire"? I am about to begin. It describes bipolar in well known authors of the past - van gogh, Emily Dickinson, etc. I got this book (written by the most prominent researcher of bipolar and a fellow sufferer) because I want to know about the connection with creativity, but as a side benefit if you read it, you will realize that people who consumed far less refined sugar were still sick. Jamison is a great writer... very grabbing, engaging. Why don't you read this short book before you decide to start a year long experiment?

Also, bipolar exists throughout the world, including countries with much lower consumption of refined sugars.

Finally, the causal connection between diabetes and overweight is disputed. It could be that insulin problems first cause overweight and only years later manifest themselves in abnormally high blood glucose. At any rate, if you have a family history of diabetes, you need to try taking Metformin (if you do not develop side effects, just take it for the rest of your life), exercise and, importantly, strength train. Cardio is not enough. I am starting strength training soon for that very reason. Research shows that women who strength train are protected from diabetes. Another important measure for you is taking vitamin D3. I take 10000 IU's, living in Northern California. You might need more depending on your latitude.

Basically, I am concerned that this year long experiment might give you a tunnel vision, and you will disregard so many other things being overly focused on one thing. If you don't think that you are at risk for that, it is safe to proceed (cranberries have a lot of antioxidants to substitute for chocolate, coffee, and tea). I have noticed that the risk of tunnel vision is high I bipolar people - we do themed shopping sprees, develop obsessions, or clean until it is spotless - all are examples of overfocusing one one thing at the expense of others. Hence I am mentioning this risk to you, so that you don't become overfocused on cutting out refined sugars to the point of losing track of other important components of your health.

[hamster-bamster]

PS my dad's mom also got diabetes later in life, and she was by then overweight. He is not overweight. Seems like genes at work to me.

I want to add that Jamison is the exact opposite of this guy per Psychehedone's description. She is not smug or arrogant. She combines lucid creative writing style with validated research approches.

[Patsy Cline]

I think this is a great idea, even if to improve health overall. It may not cure bpII but it doesn't mean it won't improve the frequency of symptoms and quality of life.

I'm curious as to what video you saw. Do you have a link?

I wish you well on your journey to better health. Perhaps I'll try it myself!

[Bipolarchic14]

I will look into Touched With Fire. Thank you for the suggestion. I do understand what you both are saying regarding different regions of the world and different times in history having bp2 as well. It's possible that different deficiencies in various regions or times cause similiar symptoms. In the US, sugar is everywhere and anyone who knows me, would not argue my sugar or caffeine addiction. Regarding alcohol, I almost never drink. So this may not be a blanket cure for everyone with the disorder, in my case it would not hurt to try. This will give me hope for a year at least. Either way I will be on this mood stabilizer for another year at minimum anyway. That will give me time to look into this more. I will also discuss it with my therapist. This may help prevent tunnel vision on my part. Thank you.

[Bipolarchic14]

Patsy Cline in google type YouTube bipolar cure and John Bergman and it us the first video.

[Patsy Cline]

Originally Posted by Bipolarchic14

Patsy Cline in google type YouTube bipolar cure and John Bergman and it us the first video.

Thanks!

[Standup2me]

I quit caffeine three months ago.
The first two weeks were hell!

So that I still get a hot drink in the morning, instead
of coffee, I've been drinking herbal tea

[Bipolarchic14]

That is actually what I did today....I am already getting withdrawal headaches. Not fun.

Well done for making this choice!

Not all BP2 is diet related but I'd bet money on that a lot in the US is. I wish you luck on this, regardless of it it "cures" your BP, it is a better lifestyle choice. I have a pretty healthy diet, as healthy as I can on my budget, but I cringe at the food people in the US have access to. No wonder there are so many problems there! Your fruit and veg is MILES cheaper than where I live but there doesnt seem to be many people that connect health with diet. Perhaps they should start an advertising campaign there as it is a big problem.

After the initial first few months when you are into the right habits and routine you will notice a difference, it might be a great time to start a diary with so you can see what kind of changes you are experiencing and you can see what benefits you are getting in the tough times.

Goodluck!

[Bipolarchic14]

I agree more should be done to promote healthy lifestyles, And with genetically modified food - that's just scary- so much of the food supply has been hindered by this.

[Happy Camper]

Originally Posted by hamster-bamster

Caffeine in moderation has protective qualities (e.g. against Parkinson) and, coffee and tea are MAJOR sources of antioxidants in a typical diet. ...

To sum up, you will make your life harder and will suffer from a deficiency in antioxidants unless you make an all-out effort to substitute for what you will forego by not consuming caffeine (even dark chocolate, a majorly healthful product, has a bit of caffeine).

I can't drink any tea at all (including decaf) because it pushes me so far up. Normally I don't mind elevated moods, but tea puts me in the "I can fly, let's tap dance in France" category.

What do you think of blueberries and grapes as an antioxidant source? I only ever drink water.

[Bipolarchic14]

I think they are a good source. I also read you can freeze them and set them like a tyle of candy. I actually have raspberries in the freezer chilling right now!

[Standup2me]

I've been thinking about it and I think that I might try giving up refined sugars for a week and see how it goes

But, not this week...there is a big container of ice cream in my freezer....yum

[Bipolarchic14]

Haha ya I have a big container of ice cream in my freezer too. Honestly my body is missing the caffeine more than the sweets. This is only the end of day one. I am sure by day 3 I will be missing sweets too. Right now though it simply feels like something is squeezing my head.

[Mickey4333]

Hi Bipolarchic14, I agree with most of the previous replies but I caution you to not use much artificial sweeteners (AS) as it has already been proven that AS messes with the brain various ways.

[~Christina]

Cutting out un healthy food in general is going to make a difference whether is will cure your BP or not .. who knows .. But across the board ~

No sugars
No caffiene
Limited Carbs
Limited red meats
No to damn near everything if you really want to make a big change in what food you eat or not eat

the list goes on and on ..

Good luck on your quest

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by Happy Camper

I can't drink any tea at all (including decaf) because it pushes me so far up. Normally I don't mind elevated moods, but tea puts me in the "I can fly, let's tap dance in France" category.

What do you think of blueberries and grapes as an antioxidant source? I only ever drink water.

Try white tea. It is the youngest phase of tea leaves. It has the highest antioxidant content of all teas, and, just for you, the lowest caffeine content. I could not drink it because I can only drink black tea - the rest, including green, is, unfortunately, not palatable to me. You can get plain or flavored white tea. If there is trader joes in your area, you can buy white tea with pomegranate and return it if you do not like it. They probably carry plain white tea as well. If you have trader joes, I would start there since they gladly accept returns.

African plant called Roibos (unsure of spelling) produces tasty "tea" that is very high in antioxidant content without any caffeine whatsoever. Again, trader joes has it.

Grapes and wine are both rich in antioxidants, as are blueberries. If you like blueberry juice (at trader joes), you can dilute it with plain mineral water for a refreshing, fizzy, low sugar, high antioxidant drink. I don't like blueberry juice, but I like cranberry and dark cherry juices diluted this way - yum! By diluted I mean really diluted, 1:8 roughly.