Opinion - stealing, lying, manipulation part of BP?

I know no one can diagnose, but maybe someone has experience with this?

My son (18 in 2 weeks) was sent down here to visit, with open ended stay. His father called me out of the blue this summer and asked if he could come down. I said, without hesitation "Of course!" No questions asked. They flew him down that same day. I was delighted. While we shared custody, they hadn't let him visit in a long time and I was told it would be good for him to reconnect.

They wanted him in school here. Done. He started exhibiting, what I thought was homesickness, then depression & self injury when they wouldn't take him back. At that point his parents (dad/stepmom) warned me he lied all the time & played victim, and raged. Took him to PDoc, diagnosed depression. Put on AD. They said they would fly him home around or before Thanksgiving. He really wanted to get home to finish his senior year with his class, he said. When I asked his dad about dates & expressed concern that he still needed help up there they told him he couldn't come back. They said he must have a disorder with lying and wanted him committed, and warned me he might get into a "rage". Son then expressed suicidal desires and he agreed to go to psych ward. Admitted the AD didn't help & he lied about it working because he wanted to be allowed to go back there. He did not want his parents to speak to any of the professionals. Dx Bipolar II and switched meds. 72 hour hold, set up therapy. At first therapy visit, bipolar Diagnosis was reconfirmed,, based on what he said & family history. He refused to go to IOP, as suggested , but said he'd go to individual therapy. All the professionals, as well as myself, thought he was a good kid and just needed to get treatment & back to HS and everything familiar to him.

When I found out he started skipping many classes, he said it was due to anxiety. Said he hid in bathroom. (Found out after he left he was watching movies on the iPad in the bathroom). Got him on mood stabilizer, thinking it was all BP. Made arrangements with school social worker that he needed to sign paper by teachers attending all classes and go to clinic if anxious.

Meanwhile I'm thinking he's going to kill himself if he doesn't get to go back. professionals agreed it would be better to let him go at 18. I was distraught, because I couldn't seem to help or make him happy. I wanted him to stay but seeing him so broken up about not going home, it would make him happy. Begged them his parents to take him. Found out he never followed through with school sociol worker, didn't attend any classes, even though I was picking him up from school some days during bad weather. He was lying and I had been taking pity on him this entire time. He said he didn't give a (blank) about school here.

Not even a week ago I asked his dad more about his behavior up there, as I was starting to see some of it. Mentioned he had shoplifted candy when he was kid. (5). His father didn't remark on that. 2 days later I suspected he was shoplifting still. He admitted to learning to pick locks because his parents had locked him out when they weren't home.

His paternal grandmother agreed to fly him up there for holidays. Very sympathetic to him and hates both his stepmother and I. The day before he was scheduled to leave, he raged at me for not letting him use the car. Went for walk instead to Walmart to get cord for phone, during which time he was texting me expressing remorse for breaking my iPad screen and causing financial strain. He knew we were broke. Son came home. Husband called said the card had been used that during that time at McDonalds ($7) & Walmart for $250. Overdrawing the account.

My debit card was not in my wallet. Confronted my son, who was so offended I would even ask. He started to get really angry. Called bank to report card stolen. My PIN was used. Only people who knew it were my two sons & I. Confronted him again. Said he used it for McDonalds and threw the card away so I wouldn't get overdraft fees. Then the story changed and he admitted to buying an iPad. He threw my card & the iPad box in trash at Walmart & got rid of the receipt. Gave me the iPad, retrieved box & my debit card he had folded in half from trash.

He flew out next day.. My husband notified his parents, then I talked to his dad - and it all came out. They did lock him out during the summer when they weren't home because he stole from them, and others. Thousands of dollars worth of stuff. Raged to the point his stepmom being fearful. Hit his stepsister. other relatives won't take him in.

I'm not blaming his parents. I think they were at the end of their rope. He blames them for ruining his life. He had begged me not to tell them about the stealing as they would ruin things more for him. I told him,"No, you did that". He said it would be "very very bad" if he couldn't go back. Is this level of emotional manipulation/behavior common with BP?

Sorry so long.

No, anger can be part of bipolar, but stealing, lying and manipulation are not typical symptoms of it. you can google the DSM 5 for the criteria of bipolar for more information on it. these symptoms could just be regular acting out, they could be part of antisocial pd or oppositional defiant disorder. im not sure, but ODD may be the kid version of APD. the pdoc should have all the facts in evaluating him for a good diagnosis. it was really unfair for your coparent to just ship him off like that and not tell you what was going on. take care.

I'll pm you after I finish writing it.

I told horrible, wretched lies when I was a teen. That was neither a part of my personality then nor is it now. While I agree that it is not a part of bipolar, I think that bipolar can so skew your thinking that it can make you do detestable things. I don't believe that overspending in particular is in the DSM 5 either but we would consider it a symptom (but I'm not certain).

This is my personal opinion only.

Put the bp diagnosis aside for a minute because I am not going to dispute what mental health professionals have said.

What you're dealing with is a son who seems to hold very little accountability for his actions.
And does not let the consequences of his actions deter him.

I think his problems are deeply rooted and I can not sit here and speculate the origin of his problems.

I don't know what it was like for him as a child when you got divorced.

I don't know how he felt with 2 parents living in different places and having to travel back and forth between the two.

I don't know how he felt living with his father.

I don't know what his relationship is like with his step mother.

I don't know what disciplinary techniques were used when he was growing up.

And I don't want you answering what I don't know - because you are not him and I believe that he has his own story to tell. You've just never heard it because he doesn't know how to tell it.

At one stage I worked intensly with juveniles who had come out of short term jail because of age - anything related to things like shoplifting, assault, dealing etc.

So I just know that there are two sides to every story.

Your husband can point fingers at your son and say it's his fault.

His step mom can point fingers at him and say it's his fault.

You can point fingers at him and say it's his fault.

But unless you own what's really going on you will never be able to help him.

I'd say teenager thing but he's been lying since he was 3/4. Consistently. The stealing hadn't stopped from 5yo on. I had no idea.

I am sorry that it is not your son who is posting on this forum.

He is the one who needs support.

I would love to hear his side of the story and offer him support.

You've come here under the shield asking if this could be a "bipolar" thing.

Nobody is taking accountability for your sons actions.

Stealing from the age of 5? My point entirely.

the problem with his side is there are so many proven lies. I'm not saying we're not at fault for many things, but until he can be truly honest with himself, with a therapist, with others how can we know what is true? Do I blame his parents for his behavior? No.

Do I think communication should have been better - yes. He didn't want me talking to them because he said it made things worse. He didn't want them talking to anyone.

I love that kid. I was on his side. I wanted and begged to help him. I believed him. Until I realized so many things were not adding up.

How can you help someone who won't let you?

Do I feel I failed? YES. Do I feel like a crappy parent - hell yes. No argument there. I am still worried/for and about him. I truly want him happy & healthy. If I sounded like I was pointing fingers, that was not my intention. I tried to explain the best I could, but unless you experience it, it's hard to know.

But until you can be truly honest with yourself as to how, from the age of 5, he was showing signs of acting out, you are of no assistance to him. Until you own it.

I'm sorry for expressing my opinion with deep conviction.

When children are involved I really listen.

It's just that sometimes, they don't have a voice.

I've heard your side of the story.

I just wish I could offer your son some support.

He's not in a good place and I wish him well.

Don't be sorry, I asked for opinions.

I don't think lying, stealing, truancy and such are necessarily symptoms of BP. In my case though, anger is. My "highs" tend to be peppered with irrational anger, irritability and in my teens and early 20's, rage.

I was, unfortunately, also on the wrong side of the law more often than not, but I don't think it was a direct result of BP, although I'm sure it didn't help.

It sounds to me like you have a troubled teenager with the complication of BP. Manipulation, violence and an inability to accept accountability for ones actions are indicative of mental problems, though not necessarily BP.