Is bipolar really the cause of your mood swings?

I think people with bipolar can take meds and become stable. They do not have a fear of abandonment, black or white thinking or feelings of emptiness.
There is no medicine officially made just for borderline.

Form this website:

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/bipola...er-difference/

You can have emotions with-in mood states - like you can experience happiness while in a depressive episode, just as you can experience saddness in a manic episode but these are emotions and not mood states. I think that is where people get confused. You can experience the whole range of emotions and during hypo/mania they may be enhanced and during depression they may be dulled, but you still experience them.

I can be depressed and function almost normally, but I still can have my full range of emotions, albeit sometimes dulled.

Those that feel emptyness and lack of emotion during mood states are more likely to have a personality disorder. But this is not the diagnosing factor.

The definition of mixed on this site seems to be very different to that of what my pdocs tell me and that of which I am studying. My mixed is BOTH at the SAME time, not switching between the two and it is certainly not called rapid cycling according to my care team. I really should look up some definitions but there is so much WRONG information on the internet about bipolar. I am picking up one of my study books today which may have some correct information in it that I can share. Or I may learn something new! I just dont trust the internet as a soild reliable source of info (well apart from google scholar which has all sorts on mixed eps)

Do you know why this is?

There seems to be two kinds of emptiness: visceral and depressive. The visceral type appears to be associated with lack of identity and is present without depression. The other type seems to be associated with the profound and overwhelming sadness that is a part of depression. I'm familiar with this, because I've felt it before (and only) during two severe depressive episodes. It felt like a deep ache that permanently trapped me in the land of nothingness. The fear caused a sense of overwhelming hopeless that felt impossible to get out of. The empty-like feeling that I felt inside my head was due to the distorting despair. When the depressions lifted that feeling disappeared.

I have to disagree with you supanova on a couple of points...
And a kind word in jest...every student of this subject may think thy know it all...its a commin psych student phenomenon. ..but its not true lol
So emptiness is waaaaay common in depression and almost a defining factor sometimes...it is only one thing on an obscure list in a personality disorder
Number twO....my mixed episodes were also always both at the same time...i went mixed and then as i was medicated out of it i went back and forth which the pdoc working at an acute care psych ward......aka no computer phone leave allowed......and you never got there voluntarily. ...said it happens. And it happened to me
U mention u self harm. ...a million pdocs right there would automatically put u as borderline....but we both know that dosent make you borderline

An important thing that could have been added to that article is that Bipolar and BPD are not "one or the other" diagnoses. They can be co-morbid conditions

+1. Self harm is a sign of emotional distress or an urge to harm oneself. Self harm can be present in those diagnosed with Depression, Schizophrenia, Anorexia, Bulimia, Personality Disorders, Autistic Spectrum Disorders, Bipolar, OCD, hell, any psychiatric disorder can lead to self harm.

Exactley!
But i know a million ppl who self harmed in bp distress and got labeled bpd
Thy use to and may still say...this is not a common phenomenon in bipolar

Didgee, I think that is an interesting distinction, and I think you're onto something there. It brings to mind that the word "chronic" is used in regards to feelings of emptiness in description of BPD symptoms. It's an on-going perception.

The feeling you describe in depression resounds with me. It sucks.
There is just so much nothingness. Especially with anhedonia.
But we ride it out, and it goes away. TG.

I mostly agree with you. Just one point I disagree with is the feeling of emptiness. A symptom of Depression itself is feeling empty and/or numb (source: Depression: Recognizing the Emotional Symptoms). I feel empty when I am deeply depressed. Feeling empty or numb constantly is a different matter though, so feeling constantly empty or numb regardless of state is more a sign of a Personality Disorder than feeling empty or numb during a depressive episode is. Also remember that some medications can cause a feeling of numbness, so that may be as an effect of the meds rather than the disorder itself.

Your definition of a mixed episode is the correct one. It's a mix between symptoms of mania and depression which exist concurrently. Hence its as straightforward as it sounds; it's exactly what it says on the tin - a mixture of manic and depressive symptoms. This doesn't mean cycling between two different states.

As for rapid cycling, it is not a diagnosis in itself. You cannot be diagnosed with "Rapid Cycling Bipolar Disorder". Rapid Cycling is an episode descriptor, or more accurately a "course specifier" and isn't a permanent thing, in the vast majority of cases. It isn't a mixed episode, or even similar to one. Only around 10-20% of Bipolar patients are thought to experience a rapid cycling state at some point in their lives.

I do think you're right about having emotions during episodes, like anybody else would during eurthymia. We all have good days and bad days, or good hours and bad hours in fact, so I don't see why that would be different during a depressive and/or manic episode.

Sorry I can quite comprehend what you are saying here? Chornic emptiness is very common in BPD, and while it can be experienced by people with BP it is only during depressive episodes to my knowledge.

SH is present in many disorders but as I do not fit the criteria for BPD it has never been suggested that I have it.

Sorry Supa, you just basically said what I said in the post before this, so ignore my part about the emptiness issue because it seems we're in agreement about that anyway.

You posted just as I was writing my post, agree with you completely.

One of Dr. Goldenberg's main treatment focuses is with addiction and he seems to lean toward behavioral, rather than biochemical, treatment. In looking at where he's coming from I'm suspicious of his generalized statement that "bipolar is this, it is not this". It seems to me that his perspective uses a rather outdated model of bipolar disorder; I believe the definition of bipolar disorder is more flexible than Dr. Goldenberg has asserted.

And I am starting to believe that Bipolar DSM criteria is being evolved to fit people with symptoms of personality disorders cos it is so much easier to slap the label of BP for insurance and medication reasons and shoo you out the door without so much as a referral to therapy that may cure symptoms.

Probably shouldnt post that as Im heavily medicated and might not be thinking straight haha but we all have times like that on here.

(I think it was a typo in post #27 that caused the confusion…)
Now that that's sorted… Seems we're all in agreement.

Thank you IZ. I wondered for a minute why I'd basically disagreed with Supa and myself

Yep sorry medicated as I said lol should have proof read

It happened to me. In the hospital. After a fourth month long manic attack
A book tells u nothing
When i learned about bp in abnormal psych in college thy didnt even MENTION bp2
So there u ho
Its always evolving
It may have been the meds pulling me out of the mixed however..idk
When i have a mixed its usually combined both and im not even able to function

And i had tht and bpd has never been mentioned for me.....i dont fit it at all
But yet i stand here and tell u happened
Bpd changes emotions constantly with trigger ect
Its not the same
Trust me....nothng in a book beats what we have gone thru
Lamitcal made me psychotic...its a damn mood stabilizer

I've been thinking about this thread and actually, I came back to a conclusion I've had for a long while: My conclusion is that psychiatry really doesn't know exactly what to label mpst of the symptoms that impair patient's lives. No more so nowadays than they have for over a hundred years. Psychiatry wanders around a lot. It is for that reason that I prefer to focus more on treating my troublesome symptoms than focusing on my diagnosis.

True poppy.....i was jus gonna say the psych bible is a guessing game...everybody knows tht...and changes and changes as does science and my own field nursing....and the def of a mixed is guided by tht bible. I dont believe the book.....or any. I believe what i went through

In other news.......,i dont know why im so worked up tonight. Havent been sleeping good
Im sorry everybody....totally out of character for me
No offense meant

:

Well, I getcha. But I'm not sure about this. I think the spectrum just happens to be widening. And I have a few theories.

1. Bipolar can be very hard to diagnose, frequently until extreme behavior suddenly presents itself. "They" (the writers of the DSM) may want to take steps to reduce the casualties of misdiagnosis or no diagnosis.

I'm not sure that it's necessarily being evolved to fit those with personality disorders, but that more emphasis is being placed on some of the symptoms shared with personality disorders would make sense, since there can be so many overlapping symptoms with a few different personality disorders, not just BPD (Paranoid Personality Disorder, for example).

2. Insurance purposes/medication reasons: Maybe it's just where I'm from? I've never had a doctor slap a label on me and shoo me out the door. You go to a psychiatrist, talk to them about your symptoms, and if your insurance requires it, it's up to you to ask for a referral. You're already there asking for drugs. Easy enough, you've done step one. Why can't you ask for a referral for a therapist? Once I started going to a psychiatrist for antidepressants, I started therapy soon after. I didn't expect a referral from my psychiatrist. I went because that's what's always suggested when you start taking psychiatric meds.

Overall I don't believe the writers of the DSM would be so irresponsible to <insert personality disorder here> under BP. I think doctors can be irresponsible in their use of the DSM (or non-use of it), definitely. And I think there are a lot of ****** doctors out there who just want to do as little work as possible. Personality disorders require a lot of work, and they hold doctors equally accountable, because people with them can work through them and recover from them, eliminating them, with the right therapy and resources.

It's much easier for a ****** doctor to to just say, "Oh, this person is BP and not taking their meds/not responding well to treatment because they're BP," when in reality the patient has, say, BPD, and the doctor just doesn't feel like dealing with it.

So I totally blame the ****** doctors who misuse the DSM.

My psychiatrist said that people with bipolar sometimes cut as well. Endorphin release feels good. When you're manic, you do things that feel good.

Im of a different school of thought in regards to diagnosis. I think the correct diagnosis is essential in receiving the correct treatment. Especially when it comes to disorders that have such wonderful successful treatment programs. I see no point in medicating people flat when some simple therapy could be more beneficial. Pdocs can medicate the symptoms away but do not generally explore what caused the symptoms in the first place. This is why therapy is so important. And why it frustrates me that people are diagnosed BP after only a few sessions, medicated to the eyeballs and lost in the system.