should kids be medicated and in special education or medicated?

Sould kids be unmedicated and in special education or medicated?

could you give us more details.....

I don't think it is that black and white. There are other options, like medicated and in special ed, unmedicated and not it special ed., etc., etc. I think the decision has to be handled on a case to case basis. If special education services are needed, medicated or not, then that may be what needs to happen.

A lot of parents run into either meds or children not succeeding in mainstream classes.

It different for every child. I'd get two or three recommendations for a child and then do what was in the child's best interest. Sometimes that means a charter or very small class room if that option is available, sometimes it means intensive therapy for an entire family, sometimes one to one therapy, sometimes it means meds and Special Ed. People come in all sizes so do the solutions.

My son is both medicated and in a school for kids with mental/behavorial health problems. He's doing really well this year versus the last three. I wish he could have stayed in his regular school but not even medication made that possible at the time when he was moved. I do feel like the path we've taken has been his best option. His taking medication still makes me uneasy. But it was either that or deny him an education. There really is no easy decision when it comes to your kids.

Well I was medicated and in general ed. Then I switched to special Ed and was able to be off medication. I wish I had gone to special Ed a lot sooner, I might have avoided that stay in residential.

To be honest I think special Ed is really not as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Of course everyone wants their kid to be "normal" but some kids really succeed out of the mainstream. I needed a smaller class size to combat my anxiety. There are kids in my school (that I teach at - behavioral school) that honestly enjoy being there because they don't have to struggle as much anymore.

it's awesome you went from combating anxiety to teaching other kids how to deal

My son likes going to the behavioral school. So much less overwhelming. Now he also doesn't feel so singled out and different because all of the kids has his own issues to work on. Before he'd get so embarassed after an outburst that it would ruin a large part of his day and ruined his self-estem. He doesn't want to go back to his home school.

apples and oranges.

The vast majority of special ed students are in the regular classroom now with a variety of configurations of support. I have special ed kids who do quite well and others who struggle, but most do okay with the right level of support. I haven't the foggiest idea which ones are on meds and which ones aren't. It isn't something teachers are generally informed about unless parents themselves give us that information. Medication decisions aren't made by the schools. In fact, in our district we don't ever bring up meds because once a school recommends it, legally we can be held financially responsible for it, and trust me, lawyers do NOT want anything brought up beyond the usual services already available.

My own son was a special educations student qualified as Other Health Impaired for ADHD; he also received services for speech and occupational and physical therapy for severe motor delays. He was always in regular classes with special education support. That just meant he had accommodations made for his learning needs that helped him be successful in the regular classroom. He sometimes was on meds and sometimes not. The school NEVER asked us about medications. They simply wanted to design accommodations for the classroom that would help compensate for what learning differences he had. He graduated on time with a regular diploma and has moved on to college now.

When our daughter was in residential treatment last spring (14 then) she was diagnosed with bipolar and immediately put on Lithium and Abilify. Her therapist at the center told my husband and I that even with therapy, usually very little can be accomplished if they are not on the proper medications, so I would think that it is extremely important with a bipolar diagnosis that the person be medicated properly!

Nancy

Kids have to be studed and verified and studied again. Hormones are going crazy. While they are in growth, adding man made chemicals? I can see the pluses, but I also see the negatives. I think family history plays the most important part in all this.

I agree that it's on a case by case basis. There are also different types of Special Education classes for different purposes, so the type of class would have to be a good fit. If the student really can't focus without medication, that might be a good option, whether in the mainstream class or Special Ed. (- Special Ed. Teacher)

(((Migs)))

This is a tough one for me to answer.

Personally,

I have always believed in a "case by case basis".

I don't like applying one rule or sweeping statement across an entire "group" if that makes sense.

So if I were to answer the question it would base itself on two facts:

1. What is the opinion of the treating medical practitioner with regards to meds; and what are the parents point of view; as their view is important too as they are the one who lives with said child

2. What is the point of view of teachers? They are the ones who see said child in classroom? If special accomodation needs to be made; sure I would fully support this being the case.

It's a good questions Migs.

Thank you for asking.

You can't make a blanket statement in regards to a group of people - especially not youth!

Some kids can't function very well even in small, specialized settings with meds. Others can function without meds or specialized settings. Some kids need both and can't have them.

It is up to the parent, child, medical team, and school to work and find the right combination for the child. Keep in mind that schools are limited in what they can provide, and in what they can accomplish based upon the decisions made by the parents and medical teams.

So I imagine he's been hammered in outburst make him "bad" person and some feelings are bad....

Had the same problem in school. That's why I was recommended meds (and designer's clothes to fit in betta with the snobby bullies) in fourth grade. As I said before, my mom said no and I am thankful. I was dealing with grief isues at that time, so that makes it even more absurd. Teacher was pushing me to be smily and giggly kids, when I was ****ing sad... and even back then bit too intelligent to enjoy the shallow things. I enjoyed other things, but my interest in politics and stars and planets and attempts to write were considered part of my issues.

Many many many year later, after struggling a lot but getting through, I came across materials about emotional education. There is some pretty simple concept, which I wish I was taught back then.

Might have saved me lot of angst.

I don't know too much about the US school system, but over here it sucks. When I was studying to get my teacher's licence, I discovered it's still the same as it was in my youth. Impersonal, too much workload with little merit and teachers that are bound to scar the kids for life. Thankfully pharma does not have so much grasp on our kids, given some questionable practices (ADHD kids are routinely given sedatives so they are quiet and don't bother others, although stimulants are also starting to get churned at some kids quite liberally...), but it's getting there. Ya know awareness and we need to catch up with west in psych pill poppin'.

the very basics of emotional education. it requires practice and it does work,

I am a special Ed teacher, I have students who are medicated AND are in special Ed. If you are asking about specifically bipolar I have few bp students they are medicated and still qualify for special Ed as emotionally impaired

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My son is on an IEP for emotional disturbance. Unmedicated he is not able to even stop and take a breath to slow down. He just reacts. Badly. The meds help him have those couple seconds to think before he does. He has no side effects and feels normal. Just a normal kid.

His school does group social skills a couple times a week which has really helped him. They have a great group of teachers this year. I'm hoping he might be able to go off at least his risperdal as he gets older and more mature and learns better coping skills. We tried therapy for a couple years without much luck. I may try again now that he is a little more mature. The other meds are for his ADHD.

I have read that personality disorders cant be diagnosed until the patient is 18, how can bipolar be diagnosed for teens when the hormones are going so insane? How can docs tell the difference between hormonal issues and serious mental health issues? (I have no issue with mood disorder NOS diagnosis as a teen but bipolar label is pretty full on for children to be lumped with. Psychosis is another story)

In saying that I presented with bipolar symptoms in my teens but was unmedicated and untreated until 18. Even at that age the meds caused more problems than they solved (first AD I went on sent me suicidal, I had to be physically restrained ). It wasnt until intensive inpatient, observation, therapy, CBT, mood tracking, MRIs, EEGs, extensive blood tests, the list goes on before they labeled BP and altered the medication. I wish I had never been medicated at that age - instead I would have better benefited from one on one intensive therapy and perhaps would not be in the position I am now. I have no doubt the meds have altered my brain permanently.

ADHD is an interesting one. I have seen children that had severe diagnosed adhd completely turned around by a change in diet. The gut/mind link is starting to be proven. I have also observed improvements in children with diagnosed autism with a simple change in diet. One or two of which had the label of autism completely removed as their diet and lifestyle were changed young enough for them not to continue with autistic behaviours. Very very interesting to me as they are proving now that processed food is the CAUSE of many childhood behavioural problems.

Again I feel I have to mention I am not implying that "your" child could be cured by a change in diet but it is certainly something to consider and research if you want the best for your children.

Over the years I had bp students and have few now. Of course they can't be diagnosed at young age but I teach high school. They were diagnosed in teenage years. One girl I have is rapid cycling, if she forgets her Meds she can't get through the day . Of course they wouldn't be diagnosed in one appointment. Years of struggles. And these are pretty severe cases, am not talking about moody teenagers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The mind-diet link is interesting. I know of children who have improved with diet restrictions and also children who have not. Or at least not enough improvement to avoid medication. It does make you wonder though. I think a lot of parents try diet restrictions first. Gluten free and removing artificial food dyes are common things parents try.

Parents also often try giving fish oil (they make gummies for the young ones) and multivitamins to try to get vitamin levels where they should be. Which reminds me, next time my son needs blood work, I want to get some of his vitamin levels tested.

Exercise is great too!! My son definitely benefits from exercise. As do I.

I fully agree that parents should try these things first!

Even if they don't help enough to avoid medication, sometimes they help enough to keep dosages on the lower side.

This is where I get so confused and frustrated. According to every pdoc I have had (around 8 -12 different opinions) not a single one referred to mood changes through out the day as rapid cycling. I actually looked up the meaning of rapid cycling in my psychiatrist dictionary and it is not even in there!!! I think many people miss use that label as it does NOT mean cycling within one day - that is NOT bipolar (unless you are the tiny percent that have ultradian cycles).

That is where DBT, IOP, intensive therapy etc is needed for these kids - NOT medicated to the eyeballs. Yes some kids do need meds but I have rather large concerns about anyone under the age of 25 being lumped with antipsychotics that are untested for that age group. (Not in relation to psychosis - unless it is BPD psychosis)

Still very early in the morning here and I have lost my train of thought, but keep up the discussion it is very interesting.

it really depends on the child...