[RomanJames2014]

Soory guys I am going post crazy today.

has anyone experienced high intelligence levels along with bipolar disorder? I actually scored highly above average in the areas of verbal and emotional intelligence and my PDOC and therapist both agree that this has a lot to do with the things that drive me crazy like my stupid ****ing social psychology class.

I received an F on my test and after looking at my copy of the Social Psych test that I took, my doctor was able to see that I went in depth instead of keeping it to the point there for over shooting the questions.

Just curious on our strengths and weaknesses with in the psychological and cognitive areas that correlate with our Bipolar disorders.

[Icare dixit]

Low IQ: 75–80. Some years ago. Maybe worse now.

[Travelinglady]

I know of no connection between IQ and bipolar. Alas, my cognitive skills have decreased because of psych meds. Some folks say hypomania can increase their creativity, though.

I am sad to hear you're not happy with your social psych class, especially since I am a social psychologist (Ph.D.) Have you talked to your professor about your test results? Maybe you can get some good advice.

I got a 154 VCI and 150 PRI, and then, because I have ADHD, I got 100 WMI and 105 PSI. My overall IQ (FSIQ) ended up being 132 when you combine the composite scores and a few other tests. (Dunno which ones. I did a full IQ test that took 2 days... It was the WAIS-IV.)

I earned a high score on the VCI because I got lucky and knew the definitions and all the words. Otherwise, I think I would have scored maybe in the 120 range.

Aaaanyway, you're probably a very high functioning person, and no doubt you're smart.

I have a Master's and I can hold down a 9-5 job, so I would consider myself high functioning.

There are some very smart people on this forum, but they aren't high functioning because their symptoms are too debilitating. However, it makes a lot of sense. Bipolar exists on a spectrum... Some will have it more severe than others.

Also (in general), I think that IQ tests only give you an approximation of intelligence. That is, they give you an idea of how smart someone is, but remember: in order to obtain your IQ, you need to take a test. Good test takers will perform better than poor test takers, so some people's IQs may be artificially inflated or artificially deflated. For example, I think Icare Dixit's IQ probably underestimates his intelligence... because he's technically "borderline" for mental retardation, but he's a lot smarter than that

[BeyondtheRainbow]

There are so many factors at play in this kind of thing...When last tested my IQ was around 140. If it were tested now no way would it be that high. My psychologist has written on social security forms that my high IQ has helped me use coping strategies but my illness is now too severe for coping strategies to allow me to work or function normally at daily life. I am an occupational therapist and for a long time was able to use some of the things I taught my patients to help myself. So professional training was a factor. There was something else but I already forgot it, proving that I've lost abilities to get through a sentence.

For years my pdoc told me that I was the highest functioning patient with the severity of symptoms that she'd ever treated. I am no longer that high functioning patient; my symptoms got rapidly worse in 2011-2012 and I had to stop working and need help for a lot of things now. I do not live independently anymore.

Part of my downfall was that I ran out of meds. So if someone comes up with the right new med sometime I could theoretically go back to high functioning. We're talking a lot right now about my professional license which I am probably giving up in a year because I've been out of the field too long; if that med came along I'd need a new career.

I think a lot of it is circumstance. One thing that helped me function as long as I did at a high level was that I had a person who I could reflect ideas off of and he would help me see whether I was reacting normally or bipolarly. There is a name for doing that I think but I have long forgotten it. I know without him I wouldn't have made it to the 3rd year of my career (I worked about 10 years).

I guess my main point is that it's not a static thing. I've been both really high functioning and.....not. I preferred the high functioning but it honestly was a tower constantly on the verge of collapse as I fought on so many levels all the time to succeed. Now I still struggle but it's over showers and washing my sheets and the like.

Originally Posted by BeyondtheRainbow

My psychologist has written on social security forms that my high IQ has helped me use coping strategies but my illness is now too severe for coping strategies to allow me to work or function normally at daily life.

I hate when mental health professionals use that sort of logic. It's extremely harmful to the patient.

I have ADHD, but my pdoc refuses to prescribe me medication for it because he thinks my IQ is "high enough to cope with the disorder".

Your ability to "cope" with a mental health condition is independent from your intelligence! I will always say that.

[BeyondtheRainbow]

I actually understand his point. But I may not have explained well what he wrote. His meaning is very different than your pdoc's refusal to treat your ADHD. I think he more means that my IQ is compromised and I am not as capable of learning or using tools requiring higher thought processes as I once was (which makes sense because I do not have the IQ I once had).

I read a very compelling assessment of me when my medical records were collected for my disability benefits appeal. It said i related as person who was, "well-read, well-educated and well-experienced." It said that i have high intelligence which is my "big advantage but it may be a disadvantage as [i] will outsmart any therapeutic endeavor." Kind of a back-handed compliment. I don't do therapy because i find the therapists usually want to heal you because of their superior intelligence and i find that so offensive. I can read "Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for Dummies" just as easily as they can.

I've been with my GP for 17 years and things go smoothly with him because i concede that he is smarter than me and i don't compete with him. It doesn't hurt that he's a real charmer, too!

[pirilin]

Is 142 high?. Is 118 low?. Take your pick in between. Depends on the test.

[MusicLover82]

Last time I was tested, I am on the lower end of "gifted" high IQ (I was in the gifted program at school growing up, but barely made it in because my answers were creative but not always what they were looking for). I feel like meds and/or ADHD symptoms make me feel less intelligent. :-P I just joke about it with my hubby and call myself a "doofus." I don't take myself seriously and I often amuse myself with self-depreciating jokes.

[shortandcute]

Mine is considered the lower side of average.

[lilypup]

I am a member of MENSA. It's funny, today my therapist was saying every BP 2 person she has treated was highly intelligent. Much more so than her average client.

[fairydustgirl]

Because of the huge point spread between Verbal and Performance test scores, I am not entirely sure my score is accurate. I usually just go with my Verbal score which was 121, because my Performance score was an 80 based on deficiencies in visual spatial skills. that indicates a pretty severe learning disability, not the 'average' of the two scores which would put me at 101. It certainly explained a lot, such as the over 100 point difference in my verbal and math scores on the SAT test from high school...as well as, my severe problems with math and my being jigsaw puzzle impaired. oh and the reason I can't parallel park a car!

[Victoria'smom]

I don't remember my score as a kid but it was gifted. Even my therapists think I'm to smart for my own good. I got tested because they wanted to put me in special classes as I was failing everything. Instead I was referred to the school therapist. Who to this day I think was an idiot.

[Icare dixit]

I think after about BP-II, intelligence goes beyond the understanding of "intelligent" people and tests (made by those people).

There is often at least one (I guess disorganised, much like me) schizophrenic in the waiting room and most there (and obviously the doctors) have no effing clue what they're talking about. Outlandish, foreign. They might be considered treatment resistant.

But I get what they're saying. I truly do. And it is very intelligent.

I needed to learn the words that doctors use because I was very goal-directed, determined to speak with them without them dismissing my every word as almost random and giving me higher doses of antipsychotics.

Most with SZ can be bothered less. *** them. Just give me pills.

Now I'm considered highly intelligent by my psychiatrist. That really wasn't the case in the beginning and not just because of mania/psychosis. Just learning a new language.

I'm rather narcissistic: I don't think I've ever been in a room where anyone was more intelligent than I. It's not just the rooms: I go to many full with PhDs, professors, Chomsky. But maybe that waiting room. Seriously.

Edit:
And maybe another exception is one of my cousins, whose schizophrenic, and an old professor of mine, whose a member of the Royal Academy.

[Icare dixit]

Originally Posted by shortandcute

Mine is considered the lower side of average.

What's your diagnosis?

I've never been given an IQ test. Once I was given a test by a training school unemployment put me through. I missed one question and everybody treated me like I was special and told me what a great job I did. So let's assume for my egos sake I'm a genius. Somewhere in the 140's sounds about right.

On a more serious note, I'm not too educated but I do know I USED to learn rather easily. I'm an old dog now and learning new tricks isn't as easy as it once was.

If I'm depressed, I'd score below average. When I'm manic, everyone says I speak nonsense and too quickly. I think I process quickly and most people cannot keep up. I'm unsure if other people are right about manic me, or if my assessment is correct. They medicate me, so it's like they are saying I'm wrong. It's important to assimilate and go along with what society says is best I'm told.

I'm currently unsatisfyed with the amount of knowledge I've acquired in my 41 years. I wish to be smarter and more capable.

Originally Posted by fairydustgirl

It certainly explained a lot, such as the over 100 point difference in my verbal and math scores on the SAT test from high school...as well as, my severe problems with math and my being jigsaw puzzle impaired. oh and the reason I can't parallel park a car!

Huh, that's interesting. My VCI score is very high, but I earned (?) 550 in the critical reading section, while my math score was 760. lol

This discrepancy could have come about because I wasn't treated for ADHD at the time of the test. After all, Critical Reading requires more concentration and attention than the math problems do (in my opinion).

But yeah, a 100-point difference isn't *too* bad. My gap was way worse

My GRE had an even worse gap. Try 790 math vs 430 critical reading. (The old version of the GRE was on an 800-point scale like the SATs.)

I think 790 was like the 99th percentile, while 430 was like the 31st percentile lol I studied engineering, though... which is probably why my math score was high.

The problem with the GRE critical reading was that most of the questions seemed to be 9-choice multiple choice questions... so you couldn't really guess anything

Originally Posted by ElsaMars

If I'm depressed, I'd score below average. When I'm manic, everyone says I speak nonsense and too quickly. I think I process quickly and most people cannot keep up. I'm unsure if other people are right about manic me, or if my assessment is correct. They medicate me, so it's like they are saying I'm wrong. It's important to assimilate and go along with what society says is best I'm told.

I took the WAIS-IV IQ test twice. (I think there are like 4 different versions? I took 2 different versions.)

I was depressed the first time I took the WAIS-IV, and I can assure you: depression *did* depress my scores.

Some psychologists claim that depression only affects your working memory, executive functioning, and processing speed, but I found that depression affects everything. I earned, on average, 20 points higher on the verbal and perceptual reasoning sections the second time I took the test, which is a significant difference. Granted, I came in having a general expectation for how the test was structured (which I'm sure artificially inflated my scores a bit), but there *was* a noticeable difference in my scores since I was no longer depressed. You'd be surprised how much depression f***s up your IQ score.

I suppose mania could artificially inflate your scores (especially your processing speed lol), but who knows. I haven't tried!

[Icare dixit]

I also believe mania may improve your score. Maybe after I don't know, 200 points the counter resets to 0. Maybe 70. So it's risky, true to form.

Mine would be 210 or something then. I don't believe that though. Not at all. But it would be interesting.

[smallwonderer]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

I think after about BP-II, intelligence goes beyond the understanding of "intelligent" people and tests (made by those people).

But I get what they're saying. I truly do. And it is very intelligent.

..

I'm rather narcissistic: I don't think I've ever been in a room where anyone was more intelligent than I. It's not just the rooms: I go to many full with PhDs, professors, Chomsky. But maybe that waiting room. Seriously.

Edit:
And maybe another exception is one of my cousins, whose schizophrenic, and an old professor of mine, whose a member of the Royal Academy.

You manic again? . I don't think nearly that highly of myself unless I'm seriously zonked out. I suppose the point is that mental illness + intelligence is not necessarily always a good thing. I only work with professors, and many of the most successful succeed not because they are particularly intelligent in an IQ kind of way.

Though when I was surrounded by mentally ill people in the hospital and pretty sick myself, I thought they were all speaking genius to me and I thought it was weird the doctors couldn't understand, like I had some special power (like I said I was manic...).

[Icare dixit]

Originally Posted by smallwonderer

You manic again? . I don't think nearly that highly of myself unless I'm seriously zonked out. I suppose the point is that mental illness + intelligence is not necessarily always a good thing. I only work with professors, and many of the most successful succeed not because they are particularly intelligent in an IQ kind of way.

Though when I was surrounded by mentally ill people in the hospital and pretty sick myself, I thought they were all speaking genius to me and I thought it was weird the doctors couldn't understand, like I had some special power (like I said I was manic...).

Maybe I'm always manic. But most PhD students, for what it's worth, I speak to (no professor is ever going to admit such a thing and if intelligent don't care too much) enjoy speaking to me more than other PhD students—about their research (and lots of other stuff; not too much of course, most being more paranoid about it then I am on a bad day about things).

I do agree it doesn't mean high intelligence per se that you achieve a lot at university. Doing a PhD is in many ways rather stupid, to be honest. And I don't care much about intelligence and much less still about IQ or anything so reductive (or it must be doing things right, like my own theories. ).

I do believe and readily admit it could all be delusional. I really don't care much. At least it allows me to excel given my range of intelligence, which is very, very broad.

Personality-wise I am a, subsyndromal, narcissist, but I wasn't really honest which would make it still subsyndromal I guess.

I am definitely not worse than many with ASD, which universities are full of, in being honest about my intelligence. But I also don't care and never bring it up, unless asked for here (I am far more socially acceptable in normal situations, but nobody seems to need verification while always commenting about my intelligence to others, it seems).

But I am not more manic than I am normally when not depressed. Rather stable. That's my stability: I am rather continuously cycling at least a bit.

[Icare dixit]

Just to be clear: my theories have abstracted away intelligence long ago as inessential and too complex, but it does mean something. Mostly just appearances, form. "Narcissism" helps. Borderline SZ helps immensely. It might not be correct, but it appears abstract, so it must be correct and highly intelligent. Up to a point of course.

But it's really not thinking highly of myself. I do, but not because of intelligence. I see myself as having a rational mind, but that's not nearly as developed as other things. Hence the IQ.

Edit:
So I like to equate intelligence to something more important, like "psychoticism", but of the disorganised, developmental BP, SZ, SZA/BP type. But it's more like some "rationality", confidence and similarity to other people, rationally.

BP-II towards the BP-I is therefore probably nearest to intelligence as well as ASD, the Asperger's part towards the normalcy side or a bit beyond that. But it highly depends on perception. It's really not an objective measure, unless it takes perceptual, individual, societal differences into account.

People with a dark complexion are less intelligent than those with a very light complexion. That's how useless the concept is.

Humanities anxiety is another thing. Those more towards mathematics and the natural sciences and between the sciences and the humanities a bit towards the humanities end but still scientific, are most intelligent. That's useless.

Mathematics is very irrational, in some way.

Un-medicated I was above average but I swear medication has dropped my IQ by at least 20pts. I just can't think the way I used to and my abilities to sort things out and perform deductions have been comprimised. I can't even scorekeep a basic card game or mentally run a subtotal at the grocery store. Many things I once could do in my head I now have to write down. I used to get a great deal of enjoyment from puzzles like sudoku and crosswords. Now? Forget even trying.