Not everything is a symptom of BP

The reasons to treat azzholes promptly is because they INFECT and affect other people around them greatly. Oftentimes people are azzholes because of great pain and suffering and when you get the root of the problem, you not only help them, but every person they come in contact with. It makes the world better by helping just one azzhole see the light.

Are some people born evil? That is a great topic and one I would love to discuss. Maybe a thread could be started in the general forum about this. I have my opinions and would feel privileged if others shared their take on the topic.

found this special for your love of star trek.. simplly put...

I'm not saying there isn't a problem that needs fixing. I think meds help with that. There might be an underlying biochemical abnormality that could be considered an illness, but it's unlikely there is one that we all share, even though the effects may be quite the same.

That some meds work doesn't mean you are treating an illness. Our meds are more like painkillers. Pain isn't an illness either but can be the result of an illness or it may be used to mask a psychological problem.

There might also be something wrong with you as a person. If it's wrong in some special, specific and severe way, you could consider it a personality disorder. The clue is in the name. It may still be, and is likely to be, solving a problem caused by some biochemical abnormality, but creating one or more problems in the process.

How can we be sure that there is a chemical imbalance when there is not test for it? And if there is imbalance, why the meds don't "balance" it the same for everybody? Why they "stop working", if it's all chemical and matter of "insert pill here"?

Okay, I will say it. Panties will get twisted, but oh well:

Not really fond of the whole "illness" concept. Most of our problems seems just human traits magnified. Maybe it comes to inability to handle the modern world. Which is honestly really hard on people. Look around. Everybody has problems handling things these days in one way or another. How many people that could be considered healthy and balanced are there? Yeah right. Life is hard. And maybe it became too difficult for most to handle right. Maybe we now live too long. Some three hundered years ago, most of us would be dead by now and not cause of bipolar... but cause of other things.

People have chemical imbalances all the time. Some are likely to have more extreme ones than others. There's an imbalance and then it's rebalanced. If it's not rebalanced quick enough there can be state of constant imbalance which may cause more extreme imbalances somewhere else in the system, a systemic dysfunction.

But whether something is functional depends on what the outcome of the function should be. Sometimes that is obvious because part of system is clearly meant to do something it does not, it clearly doesn't do anything useful, it clearly doesn't do enough, it clearly does too much or it doesn't do anything at all.

So you could argue BP is an illness. But it's no more mental than any other illness. I'd say it's not mental because it doesn't apply to the (whole) mind.

I don't think the psychoses are illnesses because psychosis and depression are useful. I think we (can) make the world a better place because of how we function (or a part of us does), as a direct result (which is unlike illnesses, which may make you a better person, but that isn't as much a direct consequence of it).

This thread has been both enlightening and disappointing.

How so? I've found it interesting, but don't know that I've been affected in a particular direction either way.

I've learned a lot too. Very educational thread. The moral of the story is, if your doctor tells you you're just an azzhole, perhaps you should listen and work hard on it.

One of my terrifying delusions was that my husband was a Robot who was communicating all my behaviors and responses to the torture I was being submitted to for alien experimentation to the aliens in charge. My constant tormentors. I apologized to my husband. Of course it hurt him badly and deeply and I felt so terrible about that. But what kind of control did I have in that situation? I'm not hostile or violent....I was crying and trembling in fear. I take as much responsibility as I can. If a see a few professionals and they say "you're not mentally ill, you're just an azzhole" they should probably lose their job.

Maybe not being violent can be a choice. I've mentally prepared myself for death and torture without being violent.

I've been violent through rage. An impulse. But delusions make you extremely rational and you can make many choices. Not what to believe, but what to do. But also to force yourself to question your beliefs, to consider other possibilities, other explanations.

There's always something you can do.

Not trying is just as bad when you experience (sudden) extreme anxiety, a full, all-hands-on-deck psychosis or depression. Both in the moment, in preparing for it and in trying to prevent it.

And having the entire range of crazy problems, I learn to improve in ways many don't have to. I don't blame anything or anyone: I'm grateful for the opportunity, grateful for each and every one of them.

Wow. My two cents... you can't really take responsibility, in the moment at least, if you don't have insight. In fact, I think taking responsibility for one's actions is a good indicator of insight. Not everything is BP and not everything should be blamed on BP, but some things that can read as a**hole-ishness can and should. There's a line of wellness and where that line gets drawn is up for debate.

I think it's mostly about how quickly you change from one emotional state and beliefs to another and how confident [edit: about your own abilities and righteousness] you feel. It's less about severity or insight. You may know you're actions are wrong, but you still act. Maybe it's insight, but impulse control isn't always and only about insight.

Maybe everyone tries to control their impulses except when you're deliberately hurting yourself, in some way, which may involve hurting others in some way. But you can choose to hurt yourself more than others.

It's not the result but the effort that's important, however difficult it may be.

And maybe choice is the wrong word.

I think it's about being proactive. Before I accepted my diagnosis I would during lots of caffeine and energy drinks and do other stuff like having an irregular schedule that contributed to my constant up and downs as I wasn't getting enough rest. By doing healthy things going to therapy to learn coping methods and becoming more aware of the beginning of a mood shift I became much more responsible for staying stable. sure BP still intrudes on my life but it no longer runs my life. I have more control. So when I'm stable and I'm not happy it's more about how I'm reacting to life not the BP.

When I'm stable I'm still very confused about delusions I had and they very much contribute to behaviors which are a result of the previous episode. I'm expected to do things which my delusions keep me from doing. (Taking meds) I think it's important to realize that if you have lots of control you are lucky. I'm pretty screwed up but I have insight I'm lucky to have but that insight can actually make things worse and more confusing. I guess I just don't relate. If I had control I would never even let anyone label me with this stupid illness. If I had control, I would'nt accept it even in the small way I do now. I'm the first to say "this isn't BP". And I'm often wrong about that according to my family and doctors. I've been told on this board that certain things are just character flaws and not BP. Well, my doctors disagreed so whose right on that one?

Then there's no mental wellness either. One can not exist and has no meaning without the other.

Agreed.

There are times we are not in control despite best efforts. BP is an explanation, not an excuse. We are responsible for the fallout of our actions.

My great cousin lived and was raised in a state hospital. He wore a helmet at all times and banged his head on walls and other people. I never held him responsible. Who gets to make these decisions? I guess it a person does something to you then you have a right to judge because it's based on your experience of being hurt but it's not the full picture. How do we determine someone is responsible? If someone decides someone is responsible but is not in that persons head how is that fair? Who the heck are we to make decisions about other people's awareness and capabilities? I think it's a lot more complex and that is how I will continue to see it. If someone can wrap this all up in some simple package that makes sense to them then fair enough. I see things differently....I've experienced things differently. People can continue to see things how they wish but I don't think I'm delusional in how I view this at all.

When I read this post to get an honest opinion from my friend they said "whoa, that doesn't like like you at all, are you alright". I said no....this isn't my post and I read her my replies. She said, I agree with you and made many points I will refrain from sharing because they would not be helpful. We all experience mental illness differently. Some people might be in a place where they are highly confused on what is or isn't BP. Some are in VERY bad places and thinking they should just die because there is no help. Should we really consider ourselves an authority on how other people process or the place they are at in their recovery? What if someone was just diagnosed and unsure of what is BP or something else? By calling them an azzhole we rarely help. The OP was helped by being told this but for many it would not only be unhelpfu at best, but also clinically inaccurate and deadly at worse.

I'm all for taking personal responsibility but when someone else suggests others have the same abilities as they do...a line is being crossed. It's perfectly ok to be proud of ourselves or think we are doing it all right and other people are doing it all wrong....but when openly accuse people of doing something like blaming non illness related things on the illness, it might be best to remember we are not in those people's heads nor have we had their experience.

That sounds convincing but makes no sense. If you believe in God, there's God's wisdom but not God's stupidity (or you have very strange religious beliefs), for example.

Also, the word well is an adverb while the ill used in illness is an adjective. Illness is a condition or characteristic, wellness a state (or function) dependent on that condition (and others, some possibly more important).

Edit:
If the condition is absent, you may say you're well. But the condition may be impossible.

If you're not well, you might be ill, but you might not be. You may also be doing very well while ill.

You can control but not fully control.

It's all excuses.

Everyone has the ability to do as much as they're able.

I agree nobody knows exactly what and how much that is.

But nobody includes you (or excludes you, as well, rather) to some extent.

Agreed. We should all agree on that one.

I know enough about when I'm able and not able to give me a bit of insight but you are right, I don't know what is in someone's head. Unless they share it with me and I guess they could be delusional or liars but I tend to take people's word. If they say something is BP related, I believe for them it is. We all experience this illness differently which this post clearly determines. I make no assumptions on other people abilities because as you said, we just don't know. I figure people have their reasons if they blaming non BP things on BP. Perhaps they just don't know and I can gently help them, or perhaps the best I can do is realizes they have their reasons, they trigger me and wish them the best in the future.

We all have our delusions. When I read this to my mom she said these people are attacking you and I don't think they have BP. She said "you know some people join these boards to make fun of people like you"

I think people are trying to tell me I have schizophrenia and don't belong here and should be hospitalized. I believe I'm being experimented on by aliens who are causing me to be attacked so they can isolate me and make me be alone so they can analyze me in that environment without support. My husband says this is delusional but I'm not so sure. All evidence suggests this. Just because the majority of people believe something doesn't mean it's right. There is evidence of this throughout history.

It's delusional if the importance is so extreme it impairs your functioning, whether it's true or not, I believe. And if you can't do anything about it happening, you can minimise your fear by accepting it. That's something.

I don't care whether this is the BP forum. I've got BPD and schizoaffective disorder and I'm still allowed to post here [edit: I think].

I do think you can force yourself to do nothing during psychosis (which includes mania). The big problem is that nothing may very well be all you can do (apart from trying to doubt, think of alternative explanations and accept).