[Wander]

Two weeks out of a psychotic break and my pdoc has told me that he may not be able to treat me anymore as when I become severely suicidal he finds it difficult to cope with my lack of, or at times, odd spiritual beliefs. He is a fundamentalist Christian and sees the world very different to me. He can't seem to put his religion aside and treat me as a simple psychiatrist. He said he sees a difference in me since my break so will continue to treat me and see how things are in a few months. If he is still not comfortable he will transfer me to another psychiatrist from the same hospital.

This has really thrown me, made me angry and wonder if I should just transfer now. He has been my doctor for three years and I was attached to him. In the past I have been spiritually abused by Christian 'counsellors' who treated me terribly. He knows this and now is being another Christian who can't handle my illlness. This hurts and triggers me deeply. I don't understand as I hardly talk about spirituality unless he brings it up and then I state clearly why I'm not a Christian from intellectual points. I am unsure of spirituality now in any way, especially since my psychotic break as it all seems like brain chemistry to me.

I am not wanting to judge Christians here or any other spirituality. I accept people of all faiths and have friends from Christians to witches. I am just heartbroken about my pdoc. He has done a lot for me and now I feel abandoned for no fault of my own. Pretty harsh too so soon after being so unwell.

What should I do? Wait a few months or request a transfer next time I see him in two weeks? This is really distressing me.

[gayleggg]

I would probably go ahead and find a new psychiatrist as I can't see him being very helpful to you with his strong beliefs. It shouldn't be a factor but from his point of view it is so why stay with someone who can't understand you reasons for your beliefs.

[Shazerac]

Wow, just wow!! that sounds really unprofessional to me. It sucks that he threw that at you now when you are in a fragile state. I think it's best that you transferred to another doc as soon as possible.

First of all this is absolutely wrong. In addition to finding yourself a new psychiatrist you should report this one to the relevant authorities.

I believe in Austrailia, there would be a national and state College of Physicians and Surgeons.

Is this psychiatrist practicing out of a clinic, larger office, hospital, or other group environment? I would also complain to the heads of the department(s) or offices.

Finally, there may be laws about this. At least, here in Canada the law says they can't. If a physician does not agree for religious reasons (ie. abortion) they are required by law to refer the patient to some who wiil practise accordingly. Similarly pharmacists. If a pharmacist refuses something like birth control there must be someone present who will.

It so happens that my father is a professor of ethics at the College of Medicine at the local university. It is this sort of conundrum that is the very basis of his teaching. This according to him is an absolute no go. The student doctors and nurses are counseled on this and even go through a role playing scenario on such situations. THis is ABSULUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. He says report them.

I had a psychiatrist I was seeing for therapy. A few times she mentioned praying. When I told her I was uncomfortable with that and that I didn't believe in an active Higher Power she kindly stopped. It never was a problem after that.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Wander

...when I become severely suicidal he finds it difficult to cope with my lack of, or at times, odd spiritual beliefs...
...I state clearly why I'm not a Christian from intellectual points.

Neither of you is ever required to conform to the beliefs of the other, of course, and it is easy for me to remember that fact while also imagining exactly what he has said: "difficult to cope with lack of, or at times, odd spiritual beliefs". You might prefer the idea of "it all seems like brain chemistry to me", but many people believe there is still more either behind or alongside that and your therapist is simply saying he does not know how to offer his best to you in the face of some of your specific beliefs clearly opposed to his.

[zijax]

I've never discussed spiritual matters with a pdoc. I think that is crossing a line. They are there to give you medicine. I also seldom go there with a t. T's are not spiritual advisors. You seem to have a somewhat intimate relationship with your pdoc as far as what you discuss. How about agreeing not to discuss spiritual matters with him?

[Icare dixit]

I wouldn't know for sure what you should do about your psychiatrist, but please don't fall into the trap of thinking everything is meaningless and just brain chemistry, that life is pointless. Everything is affected or caused by brain chemistry, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless.

I remember having such thoughts after experiencing the extreme contrast between discovering a reality where everything's extremely meaningful and a reality where everything seems arbitrary (the one we too often live in anyway). Reality is all fiction and one isn't more true than the other. Some you might share with others. None of it is pointless.

Most if not all religions and all true religion is based on one reality some have been lucky enough to experience. It's not arbitrary. Specific teachings may be misguided but they're based on a universal truth. Religious people may make grave mistakes, but certainly not all of them do.

There's truth at the core of all delusions. The mistakes are made when interpreting and expressing them. But still they may convey some truth. They may resonate and inspire.

You should maybe just respect his beliefs and don't base what you think of him on prejudice.

[Faltering]

Since you have had such a good connection with him for three years, I would try to salvage the professional relationship if possible. Express your concerns and ask him if he is able/willing to put aside religion and focus solely on his services. It's important that he is honest so that the same issues don't arise in the future. It is perfectly okay to seek out a new pdoc if he is unable to keep his religious beliefs out of his practice. You certainly deserve the treatment that will fit your needs best. You may find you are better served by a pdoc who relies solely on scientific and evidence-based practices. I truly don't believe psychiatry is the right field to discuss religion.

[*Laurie*]

What your pdoc is doing is highly unethical. If I were you I would be glad to find a better pdoc, 'cause the one you've been seeing is a jerk.

[Victoria'smom]

I would ask for a transfer now. IDK but on all my psych paperwork it asks religious preferences. I'm a hard line atheist, so when I do go in talking about god/the bible they treat it as psychosis because for me it is. I couldn't deal with a dr that thought I was finally coming around when I needed intervention fast. I'm fine with Dr's having there own beliefs but it shouldn't interfere with your treatment and unfortunately it is interfering with your treatment.

[LifeInProgress]

I am sorry you are having to go through this. If you and your Pdoc are not able to work well together on your issues I would start the referral and transfer process now. You deserve full quality of care.

At least he was honest enough to tell you that he is having a problem. But his choice of timing is terrible.

[ComfortablyNumb5]

Originally Posted by Wander

Two weeks out of a psychotic break and my pdoc has told me that he may not be able to treat me anymore as when I become severely suicidal he finds it difficult to cope with my lack of, or at times, odd spiritual beliefs. He is a fundamentalist Christian and sees the world very different to me. He can't seem to put his religion aside and treat me as a simple psychiatrist. He said he sees a difference in me since my break so will continue to treat me and see how things are in a few months. If he is still not comfortable he will transfer me to another psychiatrist from the same hospital.


This has really thrown me, made me angry and wonder if I should just transfer now. He has been my doctor for three years and I was attached to him. In the past I have been spiritually abused by Christian 'counsellors' who treated me terribly. He knows this and now is being another Christian who can't handle my illlness. This hurts and triggers me deeply. I don't understand as I hardly talk about spirituality unless he brings it up and then I state clearly why I'm not a Christian from intellectual points. I am unsure of spirituality now in any way, especially since my psychotic break as it all seems like brain chemistry to me.


I am not wanting to judge Christians here or any other spirituality. I accept people of all faiths and have friends from Christians to witches. I am just heartbroken about my pdoc. He has done a lot for me and now I feel abandoned for no fault of my own. Pretty harsh too so soon after being so unwell.


What should I do? Wait a few months or request a transfer next time I see him in two weeks? This is really distressing me.

That is absurd that he won't treat you because of your beliefs. But why did he wait three years to tell you that? I know finding a new pdoc is tough. At my office they're all residents so they're only there for like 6 months then I get tossed to the next. In the past year alone, I've had about 4 pdocs. I know it sucks. But yea you should probably find a new dr. I'm wondering what it was about your religion that turned him off so bad? I believe religion shouldn't hinder mental health care and get in the way.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by RxQueen875

That is absurd that he won't treat you because of your beliefs.

That is not what has been said. Following whatever length of time trying, the therapist is saying his own abilities do not include being able to cope with or to get past or to get around or to somehow nevertheless be successful in spite of the client's personal beliefs.

Originally Posted by Faltering

...ask him if he is able/willing to put aside religion and focus solely on his services.

I can easily imagine a therapist asking the same question. I would agree that a therapist should not need to share his personal beliefs in order to be helpful, but neither should a client need to share his or her own in order to be helped.

[Ocean Swimmer]

Oh , man. I'm sorry Wander. You've had a rough year.
If it were me, I'd get a new Pdoc.

[TishaBuv]

Tell him to find a new career.

[Unrigged64072835]

This is wrong and he needs to put professionalism before beliefs. If it makes you uncomfortable I'd transfer now.

Originally Posted by Wander

He said he sees a difference in me since my break so will continue to treat me and see how things are in a few months. If he is still not comfortable he will transfer me to another psychiatrist from the same hospital.

So how much will he be paying you to work through his issues in these appointments?

Kind of intended as a bit of comic relief, but seriously(!)

Pretty crappy situation and really crappy timing. I'd seek a new provider if I were in your shoes. (Unless he's offering substantial pay for the appointments. Might have to think about it for a few months then. )

[wiretwister]

Originally Posted by Wander

my pdoc has told me that he may not be able to treat me anymore as when I become severely suicidal he finds it difficult to cope with my lack of, or at times, odd spiritual beliefs.

I would write a concise letter to be read by him when you see him next , and ask in it what exactually does he have an issue with ... you have three years invested here and I feel he owes you an concise answer to why now he is saying this ... there is a possibility you and him just missunderstood each other ... or he may feel that only spirituality can save one from su ... which would be ok as long as he did not express a "form" of spirituality ... you said you have had trouble from a "christian" perfessional in the past and it might be coloring your perception of this .... just a thought ... take it with a grain of salt .... I hope all works out for you .. Tigger

[Wander]

Originally Posted by Icare dixit

I wouldn't know for sure what you should do about your psychiatrist, but please don't fall into the trap of thinking everything is meaningless and just brain chemistry, that life is pointless. Everything is affected or caused by brain chemistry, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless.

I remember having such thoughts after experiencing the extreme contrast between discovering a reality where everything's extremely meaningful and a reality where everything seems arbitrary (the one we too often live in anyway). Reality is all fiction and one isn't more true than the other. Some you might share with others. None of it is pointless.

Most if not all religions and all true religion is based on one reality some have been lucky enough to experience. It's not arbitrary. Specific teachings may be misguided but they're based on a universal truth. Religious people may make grave mistakes, but certainly not all of them do.

There's truth at the core of all delusions. The mistakes are made when interpreting and expressing them. But still they may convey some truth. They may resonate and inspire.

You should maybe just respect his beliefs and don't base what you think of him on prejudice.

I don't think everything is pointless and meaningless. I feel great meaningvin my life I just don't conform to traditional religious beliefs. When suicidal my beliefs don't impact my reasons to die. I felt very spiritual until my break which has made me reconsider everything as some of my delusions where very spiritual and now I know they were not real. It has thrown me but I'm still exploring and open to the spiritual. Just cautious.

[Wander]

Thanks everyone! In 2012 I ceased to be a Christian due to intellectual reasons then 6 months later started seeing him. At first he tried to reconvert me a few times and I resisted so he let it go. Since then I have been exploring different spiritual beliefs that don't involve an intervenist God like pantheism or metaphysical stuff. I see everything as connected and amazing even divine. Since my break I am questioning everything as I don't know what it real anymore. I hardly talk about my beliefs with him so I don't understand why he has such issue with them. He says I have no grounding so am vulnerable when suicidal. But when suicidal I don't want to die because of anything spiritual. I have other reasons mostly cause my brain is not working right.

To tell me this when I'm so fragile is unfair and unethical. Now I feel unstable and upset along with being utterly exhausted. But I have had a good relationship with him outside religion and though he would be my doctor for years. Right now I don't feel up to changing doctors so I will give it a month and take it from there. My gut instinct is to fire him as he has a problem with me he can't get over. This is affecting my treatment and peace of mind. Still, I like the meds I'm on and don't want them messed with. I have Lithium for BP, Ritalin for ADD and Clonazepam for anxiety plus Abilify should I get agitated or hypo/manic, it may even help with depression.

Ahh, I'm so confused and angry. I see some say ditch him, report him and others stay with him. I doubt I will report him as I am too passive and afraid it may come back on me seen as I would be seeing a pdoc from the same practice. Please don't think I'm against religious people. I am not. Just those that mix it in areas it doesn't belong, like psychiatry. He somehow can't stand that I'm no longer a Christian and that I have different ways of seeing the world. I am open spiritually and always have been spiritual but my psychotic break has just made me rethink things, even atheism. I need reality to be a firm place I can ground myself in so will question everything now.

[Nammu]

So? He thinks true Christians won't kill themselves? Sorry but that's not true. I'd say that what he says sounds like a cop out. For a pdoc being that uncomfortable with suicide is troubling.

[leejosepho]

Originally Posted by Wander

...he tried to reconvert me a few times...
He says I have no grounding so am vulnerable when suicidal...

My gut instinct is to fire him as he has a problem with me he can't get over. This is affecting my treatment and peace of mind...

I would suggest asking him whether he can recommend anyone for you who will not be concerned about religious beliefs, and I would not waste a single breath trying to scold, correct him or complain. His idea of "grounding" includes condemnation for self-harm, and there is nothing helpful to be found in trying to "scare the hell" out of someone.

[fishin fool]

I would find another pdoc as soon as possible.
This man is not fit to be a pdoc.

[Wander]

Originally Posted by Nammu

So? He thinks true Christians won't kill themselves? Sorry but that's not true. I'd say that what he says sounds like a cop out. For a pdoc being that uncomfortable with suicide is troubling.

You got it. He is uncomfortable with suicide. This makes his ability to treat me when suicidal compromised and me paranoid about ever getting suicidal again. How can that work? I am someone who can get VERY ill several times a year and at those times suicidal. I need a doctor who can handle that and doesn't make me feel guilty for stressing him out.

[Moose72]

It's not your job to worry about how he feels Wander.