[LadyShadow]

Faith-

Something that many people have, scratch that, MILLIONS of people have. Many races, countries, many different religions are spawned from the idea, of God or a "Higher Power." I will be honest with you guys here, I think I am losing it. Luckily for me I got this Bipolar 1 by the balls and I plan on going to my psychiatrist tomorrow and asking him to increase my Seroquel. But just for a laugh, you know, cause why not, I offer you the following:

Joy Behar of 'The View' apologizes for Christianity comment

NEW YORK — Joy Behar of "The View" is apologizing for comments she made for equating people's claims that Jesus Christ talks to them to mental illness. “The comments had Behar saying "it's one thing to talk to Jesus. It's another thing when Jesus talks to you. That's called mental illness, if I'm not correct — hearing voices."

Her apology on "The View" Tuesday came after Vice President Mike Pence said that Behar had called him to personally apologize, and he urged her to do it publicly as well. Behar said Tuesday she'd been raised to respect all faiths and that she fell short of that last month.



And if you are interested a bit further, this is what I wrote about in my blog about a week ago, discussing my battle with faith and my bipolar diagnosis:

I can’t even tell you what I face now. In the wake of my recent family struggles, all the drama with friends, difficulty in setting realistic goals, I picked up a book today called “Lord Help Me Change,” and I literally laughed, scoffed and then got so angry I fought furiously in complete opposition of what a “Pure, Good Believer in the Eyes of God,” is supposed to be. (Or what I think it is supposed to be, according to what I have heard about Sin and all that jazz).

I took my drugs tonight, like a good bipolar patient, and couldn’t seem to find rest or peace because my mind just REFUSES to give me that simple necessity. I was angry. SO ANGRY at the fact that reading the pages of the amazing book The Captain’s mom sent me, (from a wonderful minister in Chicago), made me feel absolutely nothing but mistrust and absolute disdain as I laid there in bed. I had been granted with a miracle, escaped the clutches of psychosis, and STILL, I don’t believe. You know, I can’t. I just can’t. Not after all I have seen and done – the pills, the doctors, the mental hospitals, all the alternate realities, and the full on madness of my mind.
I struggle with finding God, I do, because the countless times I have heard His Voice, SO LOUD AND CLEAR IN MY HEAD, the times I heard Jesus himself, the times The Hand of The Almighty reached out to mine, I found myself on the floor of a psych ward, begging the nurses and doctors not to pump me up with countlesss drugs. I can’t, I can’t do this. I am faced with the bitter reality that the safety net I thought I could enjoy for the next few years is slowly being ripped from right underneath me, with me powerless to stop it.

I wanted to turn to God. I wanted my pills to work. I wanted my blog to reach more people. But like everything in life, my words fall on deaf ears, no one hears my call, no one sees me, and I suffer alone and angry at myself that I am nothing but a selfish, spoiled brat. I have been hiding behind being bipolar way too damn long. People suffer with this illness you know, most even fight the battle totally untreated, but they pull it together, go to work, provide for their families and they MAKE it through life. What is my excuse??
And can someone please tell me WHY the preacher who hears the voice of Jesus, and sings loudly in joy and excitement at the “Word of the Almighty Lord, Hallelujah!!!’ Why he doesn’t get locked up in a psych ward for hearing voices? Isn’t the voice of Jesus a voice?? Go ahead, call me a sinner, a blasphemous harlot, I don’t even care. I am angry tonight. I am angry at the fact that I can’t pray without thinking its a damn joke because of what the doctors called my epiphanies, and then in turn drugged me up with medication. Where do I fit in the grand scheme of things? Why is it, that if I were to scream “I hear the voice of Jesus, let’s all rejoice!” outside of a church, I will be locked up in mental institution?

In the face of ALL of this, I still refuse to become an atheist. Despite EVERY logical thing I have learned, EVERY fact that has been presented to me, ALL the drugs that are in my system, I BELIEVE. I laughed in God’s face you know, and yet I know he STILL loves me. I am a fool in the biggest prank ever made, but I was robbed of my rest tonight to reach you out there. You, the person who is reading this post right now. In regards to me screaming that I hear Jesus in my mind outside of the walls of a church, I will simply say this:

Jesus said… the Kingdom of God is inside you, and all around you, not in mansions of wood and stone. Split a piece of wood… and I am there, lift a stone… and you will find me.

So yeah, that’s what I believe, even though that quote is COMPLETELY discredited as being heresay, but that’s what keeps me going. In the face of mental illness, in the face of the horrible stigma placed upon us, in the face of the all the judgmental fingers being pointed at us around the world in the wake of the latest school shooting, that’s what keeps me going.
I am going to pop a Melatonin pill on top of all this damn Seroquel I am on to try to rest tonight.

And I am going to say a prayer as I fall into slumber, scoffing, refusing to believe in God, but at the same time completely, and utterly believing in Him anyway.

Amen.

What conclusions do you guys have on this? Or am I just really nuts here?

[Pookyl]

Well written! But I don’t have any answers for you.
I’ve been sick physically with one thing or another since birth and managed to keep my faith.
Mental illness is a whole new kettle of fish. I met someone with schizophrenia who made no sense when talking out aloud. But she wrote poems that were beautiful and eloquent about faith.
Every time anyone questions my faith now, I say “spend a day in my shoes and then you’ll know the meaning of faith”.
Take care.

[Northchild]

I never bought into the idea of any gods or goddesses. I was raised as an atheist, practiced and studied Zen Buddhism in my early 20s, and quietly dropped Zen when I got married at 24.

Later on, in my mid 30s, I read a fair number of books and other writings by noted non-believers. What they had to say made a lot of sense to me, which I suppose isn't surprising. For example, Christians often seem to have a response when The Problem of Evil is brought up, but their explanations strike me as being quite holow. Then some theist will spring The Argument From Incredulity on me, after dressing it up in whatever "meaningful-sounding" clothes they can come up with... but it's still the same tired song.

Frankly, if there ever existed a god or goddess that has or had the ability to influence our lives, and if children dying in war zones or of the most painful childhood cancers you can imagine are part of his, her, or its "master plan", then that god can go **** himself because he's not getting any attention from me.

The above may make it sound like I believe and that I'm angry, but in my day to day life I don't think of religion at all. I lack the "faith" language and frame of reference that many people in the US have, and have no desire to change that.

I feel like the drug I take to calm me down and make me sleep better also makes me feel number and more detached. So I feel less motivated to pray and a little more depressed. My drug makes me feel more distant from God. I hate it. However, there are also things I don't like about myself when I get manic. I wish I wasn't like this. I am so tired of being like this. I look forward to the peace death will bring and hope I will be reunited with the people I love. Like you, I believe God is something that lives inside of us. Life feels pretty empty when we are not in touch with our spirituality. I can relate to the struggle within...

[Moose72]

Wonderful blog post! (Kinda puts my bipolar blog to shame.) I understand what youre going into because ive had times when Ive seen angels at church. Ive had my meds changed at the hospital for psychosis. And delusions. I dont know if theres a difference betwren hearing voices internally or externally. Keep remembering keep writing and mostly be present in every moment.

[*Laurie*]

I accept that we truly do not know what's going on. I have a strong spiritual faith. I accept that God is probably not an individual God who "doesn't help" end tragedy in the world, and is therefor a "bad" God. I believe that people, possessing egos, have a lot of free choice and are, sadly, sometimes the recipients of what appear to be tragic situations.

It is possible that the voices we sometimes hear are the voices of astral spirits, guardian angels, various aspects of our own minds, God...no one knows.

[pirilin]

I do believe in a higher power. Call it what you want. I call it the force. Not because Star Wars, but because the universe is so vast that some inmense power or force has to rule it.

I feel the presence of good and evil. I'm constantly fighting my "demons".
Also have a clear vision for what will be wrong for me in the future. Even months ahead.
If I only could do the same for whatever good will be coming to me. No chance so far.

That, and more, no religion, atheits, agnostics, satanic or yorubas, can change.

[bizi]

I love your blog, and hear your frustration.
I want to believe, life would be so much simpler.
((((HUGS))))
bizi

[Unrigged64072835]

It amazes me how people who hear angel guidance, have conversations with God, and make a mint because they have visions. I guess it's good marketing and business sense.

I think there should be a course on "Metaphysics and the Mentally Ill." where we can learn discernment and still have faith despite our illness.

[Nammu]

Too many people use the excuse of "God told me to do it" for an excuse to misuse power and intolerance for me to ever believe it's a real thing. I believe in a higher power but not one that talks to lowly humans. I have no answers.

I'm an agnostic so i get the best of both worlds. I was raised Roman Catholic. It was great fun! My little sister and i had all sorts of high-jinks in church. My dad sang in the choir and at Christmas they put on a rousing show!

I think religion is a great creation of humans. It has a lot to say about what it means to be human. The idea of God exists in every human society in one form or other, no matter how isolated they are. It's an archetype.

In my teens i was an atheist.

Now i'm middle-aged and i just plain like the idea of God and i like religion. I want to believe. So i allow myself to conclude that i just don't know and i will take whatever is useful for me.

I've had religious manias a couple times and really enjoyed myself! Once i went to church three times in one week! I like going to the children's mass early on Saturday morning. It moves me to tears to see the little ones parade up the center aisle in the entrance procession, carrying colorful standards with doves and trailing crepe on them!

Just in the Spring when i'm hypomanic tho. The rest of the year i'm in bed. I'm usually at church for the Easter celebrations -- the most joyous time of year for Roman Catholics. My mood jibes well with the religious calendar!

[Tucson]

I struggle with this eternal question from time to time. I struggled with it as a teenager. I was raised Roman Catholic. My mother became disallusioned and left the Catholic religion. That is also when I stopped attending mass. I wanted to believe in something more that does not involve the basket being passed around for donations for the church. And it was continually passed around until the priest felt this yielded adequate funds. At least this is the way I felt.

Now fast forward to my current life. Most of who I know are much older than I am. They have been passing one by one. I understand that this will inevitably happen to me. So this has me thinking again about my place in the universe.

I do believe there is some type of creative force that exists. I do not believe in the biblical God. I do not think such a being can be ascribed human emotion and definitely not human like understanding. I think this beings thought processes, if there is such a thing as thought processes with such a being, would be entirely alien to us. This would be like ants trying to “understand” and “acknowledge’ our existence and the purpose of their existence. This is impossible.

Some of us without knowing it see our God in our own image, rather than the other way around. I guess this allows the concept to be brought down to our level of understanding. I think this creative force, if exists, may be beyond our current comprehension, and this may remain that way. I do not know. Furthermore, perhaps this eternal force does not require any explanation or acknowledgement at all from us for us live a fully productive life that is also spiritually fulfilling. I do not know. Now how to we fit into all of this? Again I simply do not know. Maybe this is not a bad place for me to be?

However, as I grow older, closer to an age that is at deaths doorstep, I am sure this question will become very important for me to consider. However, this effort may very well turn out to be a futile attempt at solving the unsolvable. Maybe I will end up being much happier and fulfilled once I understand this. Personally, I like thinking that we are here to experience as much as possible, and then share this obtained wisdom with others in some way, where they can benefit from this effort of ours. Just a thought. At the very least, it would make for good altruistic goal. I also think that this cannot be better embodied than in the relationship a parent has between themselves and their children

PS I hope our conversation here is allowed by the rules of this website.

[BipolaRNurse]

I am a Catholic who struggles with faith every now and again. I'm sorta struggling right now, and have been since my husband died. I want to think he's in Heaven with Jesus, but OTOH we are taught that most people will go to Purgatory first. I don't want to think of him in Purgatory. I want to think of him as being happy and whole and filled with the light of peace. So I go back and forth, wondering sometimes if God is really there for me but I continue to pray, not formal prayers but just asking for His blessings on my family and friends. And I thank Him for all my blessings, of which I have many. I may not be the most exciting person on earth but I have been given so much in the way of love throughout the vast majority of my life.

And I don't think talking to God or having Him talk to me is a sign of mental illness. I have had some religious delusions in my life, thinking I was His messenger sent to be in the right place at the right time like when my co-worker's husband was visiting and became grey and sweaty. Being the nurse I am, I quickly called 911 and took his vitals, assessed him and reported the results to the dispatcher. The EMTs came and did an EKG which showed he was smack in the middle of a heart attack. I still wonder sometimes if I really was put there on purpose. The man survived after having a triple bypass.

[LadyShadow]

Originally Posted by Pookyl

Well written! But I don’t have any answers for you.
I’ve been sick physically with one thing or another since birth and managed to keep my faith.
Mental illness is a whole new kettle of fish. I met someone with schizophrenia who made no sense when talking out aloud. But she wrote poems that were beautiful and eloquent about faith.
Every time anyone questions my faith now, I say “spend a day in my shoes and then you’ll know the meaning of faith”.
Take care.

Amazing Pookyl! Thank you for sharing a part of your wonderful story and that amazing quote. I am so proud of you for still keeping your faith close to your heart as you navigate through the crazy world of mental illness like I right now. It feels so GOOD to not be alone through all of this!

Originally Posted by Northchild

I never bought into the idea of any gods or goddesses. I was raised as an atheist, practiced and studied Zen Buddhism in my early 20s, and quietly dropped Zen when I got married at 24.

Later on, in my mid 30s, I read a fair number of books and other writings by noted non-believers. What they had to say made a lot of sense to me, which I suppose isn't surprising. For example, Christians often seem to have a response when The Problem of Evil is brought up, but their explanations strike me as being quite holow. Then some theist will spring The Argument From Incredulity on me, after dressing it up in whatever "meaningful-sounding" clothes they can come up with... but it's still the same tired song.

Frankly, if there ever existed a god or goddess that has or had the ability to influence our lives, and if children dying in war zones or of the most painful childhood cancers you can imagine are part of his, her, or its "master plan", then that god can go **** himself because he's not getting any attention from me.

The above may make it sound like I believe and that I'm angry, but in my day to day life I don't think of religion at all. I lack the "faith" language and frame of reference that many people in the US have, and have no desire to change that.

Thank you for your wise words Northchild, I totally understand your frustrations, and I absolutely know why you feel the way you do about God and everything else. Stay true to your beliefs my friend, you are totally entitled to them. Thanks for sharing them because it was very helpful to me and didn't go unnoticed!

Originally Posted by Hopingtrying

I feel like the drug I take to calm me down and make me sleep better also makes me feel number and more detached. So I feel less motivated to pray and a little more depressed. My drug makes me feel more distant from God. I hate it. However, there are also things I don't like about myself when I get manic. I wish I wasn't like this. I am so tired of being like this. I look forward to the peace death will bring and hope I will be reunited with the people I love. Like you, I believe God is something that lives inside of us. Life feels pretty empty when we are not in touch with our spirituality. I can relate to the struggle within...

Awww HopingTrying, I hear and FEEL the pain in your words! It breaks my heart to hear how people who have been diagnosed with mental illness feel this way when they are trying to pray and talk to God, you know? I absolutely KNOW what this feels like, truly I do! I know your meds make you feel numb, honestly my Seroquel does the same thing to me too. But don't stop praying, don't stop connecting, mania or not, we can't let our fear of being manic cripple us to the point we lose our Faith. I know I won't. You hang in there my friend!

Originally Posted by Moose72

Wonderful blog post! (Kinda puts my bipolar blog to shame.) I understand what youre going into because ive had times when Ive seen angels at church. Ive had my meds changed at the hospital for psychosis. And delusions. I dont know if theres a difference betwren hearing voices internally or externally. Keep remembering keep writing and mostly be present in every moment.

Thanks for your kind words Moose72! (And don't worry its not a competition at all, your blog is amazing! Although I can't really comment or anything because I am not a member of blogspot.com), but I know what you mean about seeing angels and all of that. Believe it or not, I have seen them too! But what how do we differentiate between the "Divine" and psychosis, you know? That's the BIG question I am dealing with right now, honestly. But what you said about "being present in every moment" is ABSOLUTELY wise and true my friend, I think that will be the key to finding out the "Truth about Faith" that I am seeking. Thanks again!

Originally Posted by *Laurie*

I accept that we truly do not know what's going on. I have a strong spiritual faith. I accept that God is probably not an individual God who "doesn't help" end tragedy in the world, and is therefor a "bad" God. I believe that people, possessing egos, have a lot of free choice and are, sadly, sometimes the recipients of what appear to be tragic situations.

It is possible that the voices we sometimes hear are the voices of astral spirits, guardian angels, various aspects of our own minds, God...no one knows.

Thank you for this Laurie! I think that accepting that, "we simply don't know" when it comes to God has a lot validity to it. Obsessing on whether he is real or not real, can become a whole problem in itself, you know? You are very wise Laurie, and I have come to look forward to your amazing insight on spiritual things and teachings.

Originally Posted by pirilin

I do believe in a higher power. Call it what you want. I call it the force. Not because Star Wars, but because the universe is so vast that some inmense power or force has to rule it.

I feel the presence of good and evil. I'm constantly fighting my "demons".
Also have a clear vision for what will be wrong for me in the future. Even months ahead.
If I only could do the same for whatever good will be coming to me. No chance so far.

That, and more, no religion, atheits, agnostics, satanic or yorubas, can change.

Very wise words pirilin! You are ABSOLUTELY right about a kind of "force" being out there, truly. Not the Star Wars kind that you said, but the one that exists in the universe and WILLS us to fight on, and even in your case, battle your "demons." I have my own demons I battle my friend, but knowing there are people out there like you who are fighting the good fight too, makes it all a little less overwhelming and that all my fighting isn't all for nothing. Thanks again!

Originally Posted by bizi

I love your blog, and hear your frustration.
I want to believe, life would be so much simpler.
((((HUGS))))
bizi

Aww thank you bizi!! You know I always love hearing from you! Thank you for your kind words about my blog, I truly appreciate it my friend. I know you want to believe, and I absolutely want to believe too! But you are doing the right things you know? You are doing your own "Work of the Divine" by taking good care of yourself and fighting the addictions you are dealing with. Don't think I haven't noticed bizi my friend, I KNOW how hard you are trying and how MUCH effort you are putting into it all. I wish life can be simpler too my friend, I really do.

Originally Posted by Fharraige

It amazes me how people who hear angel guidance, have conversations with God, and make a mint because they have visions. I guess it's good marketing and business sense.

I think there should be a course on "Metaphysics and the Mentally Ill." where we can learn discernment and still have faith despite our illness.

What a great idea, Fharraige! I know what you mean about people who have those kinds of revelations and get praised for it, meanwhile they lock up the rest of us in psych wards and call OUR visions, "mental illness." Trust me, that was the whole point of me making this thread! The sheer hypocrisy of it all, you know? Anyway, thanks for commenting that is really a good idea, I might actually see if they could make "Metaphysics and the Mentally Ill" a part of the Spirituality Section of this site. I mean what do you think?

Originally Posted by Nammu

Too many people use the excuse of "God told me to do it" for an excuse to misuse power and intolerance for me to ever believe it's a real thing. I believe in a higher power but not one that talks to lowly humans. I have no answers.

Thank you for your wise words Nammu! I agree with you on people using the excuse of "God told me to do it" as a way of getting away with whatever they want to get away with you know? Having no answers is the best answer sometimes anyway, so thank you for saying that too!

Originally Posted by whatever2013

I'm an agnostic so i get the best of both worlds. I was raised Roman Catholic. It was great fun! My little sister and i had all sorts of high-jinks in church. My dad sang in the choir and at Christmas they put on a rousing show!

I think religion is a great creation of humans. It has a lot to say about what it means to be human. The idea of God exists in every human society in one form or other, no matter how isolated they are. It's an archetype.

In my teens i was an atheist.

Now i'm middle-aged and i just plain like the idea of God and i like religion. I want to believe. So i allow myself to conclude that i just don't know and i will take whatever is useful for me.

I've had religious manias a couple times and really enjoyed myself! Once i went to church three times in one week! I like going to the children's mass early on Saturday morning. It moves me to tears to see the little ones parade up the center aisle in the entrance procession, carrying colorful standards with doves and trailing crepe on them!

Just in the Spring when i'm hypomanic tho. The rest of the year i'm in bed. I'm usually at church for the Easter celebrations -- the most joyous time of year for Roman Catholics. My mood jibes well with the religious calendar!

Thank you so much for sharing your story with me whatever2013! I am truly happy you found your way to a joyous path and you are able to enjoy your time at church in such an amazing way. Easter is around the corner so Happy Easter to you my friend!

Originally Posted by Tucson

I struggle with this eternal question from time to time. I struggled with it as a teenager. I was raised Roman Catholic. My mother became disallusioned and left the Catholic religion. That is also when I stopped attending mass. I wanted to believe in something more that does not involve the basket being passed around for donations for the church. And it was continually passed around until the priest felt this yielded adequate funds. At least this is the way I felt.

Now fast forward to my current life. Most of who I know are much older than I am. They have been passing one by one. I understand that this will inevitably happen to me. So this has me thinking again about my place in the universe.

I do believe there is some type of creative force that exists. I do not believe in the biblical God. I do not think such a being can be ascribed human emotion and definitely not human like understanding. I think this beings thought processes, if there is such a thing as thought processes with such a being, would be entirely alien to us. This would be like ants trying to “understand” and “acknowledge’ our existence and the purpose of their existence. This is impossible.

Some of us without knowing it see our God in our own image, rather than the other way around. I guess this allows the concept to be brought down to our level of understanding. I think this creative force, if exists, may be beyond our current comprehension, and this may remain that way. I do not know. Furthermore, perhaps this eternal force does not require any explanation or acknowledgement at all from us for us live a fully productive life that is also spiritually fulfilling. I do not know. Now how to we fit into all of this? Again I simply do not know. Maybe this is not a bad place for me to be?

However, as I grow older, closer to an age that is at deaths doorstep, I am sure this question will become very important for me to consider. However, this effort may very well turn out to be a futile attempt at solving the unsolvable. Maybe I will end up being much happier and fulfilled once I understand this. Personally, I like thinking that we are here to experience as much as possible, and then share this obtained wisdom with others in some way, where they can benefit from this effort of ours. Just a thought. At the very least, it would make for good altruistic goal. I also think that this cannot be better embodied than in the relationship a parent has between themselves and their children

PS I hope our conversation here is allowed by the rules of this website.

Thank you so much for sharing your story with us here Tucson! You make some really EXCELLENT points and they are absolutely valid, and I will take your wisdom and try and apply them to my "Quest to find Meaning" on my spiritual path while dealing with being Bipolar. You have some very BIG questions that I have thought about too, (some people who were very young died suddenly due to heart attacks and accidents recently), so I often wonder about the same kinds of things. I TOTALLY hope the conversation on this thread is breaking any rules of this website, I mean I see how it can be a bit controversial, but it has been REALLY helpful to see all the wonderful helpful responses I have gotten here. Including yours my friend!!

Originally Posted by BipolaRNurse

I am a Catholic who struggles with faith every now and again. I'm sorta struggling right now, and have been since my husband died. I want to think he's in Heaven with Jesus, but OTOH we are taught that most people will go to Purgatory first. I don't want to think of him in Purgatory. I want to think of him as being happy and whole and filled with the light of peace. So I go back and forth, wondering sometimes if God is really there for me but I continue to pray, not formal prayers but just asking for His blessings on my family and friends. And I thank Him for all my blessings, of which I have many. I may not be the most exciting person on earth but I have been given so much in the way of love throughout the vast majority of my life.

And I don't think talking to God or having Him talk to me is a sign of mental illness. I have had some religious delusions in my life, thinking I was His messenger sent to be in the right place at the right time like when my co-worker's husband was visiting and became grey and sweaty. Being the nurse I am, I quickly called 911 and took his vitals, assessed him and reported the results to the dispatcher. The EMTs came and did an EKG which showed he was smack in the middle of a heart attack. I still wonder sometimes if I really was put there on purpose. The man survived after having a triple bypass.

Awww thank you for sharing your story BipolarNurse! I am really sorry to hear about your loss, I am sure your husband is in a better place and is still helping you in his own spiritual way (at least I believe so). And you know what? I ABSOLUTELY believe that you were put there on purpose to save that man's life, and you CONTINUE to do so in your every day work life. Being a nurse is God's work in my opinion, truly. Thank you for all you do, BipolarNurse, and God Bless You, truly.

I have been overwhelmed and overjoyed at how many people posted on this thread! Even though I was VERY angry when I made this thread, I have slowly started to accept a lot of things in regards to faith, (God, Jesus and even Buddist practices). I had a medication increase that is helping too, (although I DON'T BELIEVE medication is the answer, in fact I used to think it just numbed me really). BUT through all of that, all the battles I have been fighting, all the amazing people who can identify what this "battle of faith vs. mental illness" is like, it makes me TRULY believe that even if God exists or doesn't exist, it doesn't change the fact that there are AMAZING people who exist in this world that have REAL answers, and REAL beliefs, and can help those who are struggling like all these wonderful people on PsychCentral who I have come to know and love. If that isn't the Will of God, or even God's wish for All of US, then I don't know what is.

Thank you all for listening and reading.

[*Laurie*]

LadyShadow