Controversial Topic: Me Too Movement and "the line"

If a moderator finds this topic to be too controversial or triggering, or if responses become unhealthy for the forum, I understand if it needs to be locked or even deleted. However, I thought this might be worth discussing, especially given the tendency for people with bipolar disorder to have hypersexuality, or even just a tendency to be more flirtatious or generally aggressive than usual when hypomanic/manic.

This morning, I was in Burger King splurging on a high calorie breakfast sandwich, and on a TV was a show called "Wendy". The topic was Morgan Freeman and the recent inappropriate behavior/misconduct accusations against him. I listened to the accusations, which after stated received shocked "Ooooos!" from the Wendy audience. I also learned that his contract with Visa for commercials was ended because of the accusations. I scratched my head and thought that there seemed a clear difference between his (what I call) inappropriate "dirty old man" behavior, and some of the very serious sexual misconduct/intimidation, and rape charges of other famous men, like Kevin Spacey, Harvey Weinstein, and Bill Cosby. These latter three men committed crimes, and crimes must be dealt with as such. But I didn't see Morgan Freeman's clearly inappropriate behavior as criminal. I got to thinking about where the limit should be between destroying a person's career and reputation fully or just giving them a major talking to or figurative (or literal) slap on the face and/or therapy. But career destruction?Absolute annihilation/tarring and feathering?

I am pretty sure the above-mentioned men do not have mental illnesses, but of course I don't know that for sure, or what inspired their behavior. I do know that many people with bipolar disorder say and do inappropriate things of all kinds sometimes when ill, especially when hypomanic or manic. Though I have never physically or sexually harmed anyone, I've said sexually crude things to men a few times in my life when manic. Of course I don't do that when stable. I know better, but I've got to wonder if I was famous (or even not), and particularly a man (women don't get accused as often as men), if people might have stepped forward since the start of the Me Too movement. What would the ramifications have been for me?

My mixed manic tendencies have historically shown themselves more in the form of extreme anger. A day before my first psychiatric hospitalization I was called to Human Resources. My interim boss and the HR Director told me that 6 people approached them about my behavior. In response, they threatened to fire me if my extreme behavior didn't improve. It was my last chance. I had been reprimanded in the past for behavioral issues. The behavior was awful, though not criminal. I was lucky to have had yet another chance. As mentioned, I ended up in the psych hospital the next day.

Actually, I resigned that day in fury, but after being hospitalized, my husband called them and told them to ignore my resignation. It was 6 months later when I returned to work. They held my job while I was in the Intensive Outpatient Program. That's not entirely usual. Upon return, people were wary of me, but I wasn't completely destroyed and people started to forgive me, at least a bit. Perhaps their knowing I had a mental illness helped "save me" to a degree. Or perhaps they realized I learned my lesson. I did. A year prior to my first hospitalization I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but ignored it and quit the psychiatrist. On that day of final warning, I told the HR Director that I had "manic depression". That was the first time I uttered that. His response? "That doesn't matter!"

The HR Director's response pissed me off for a while, but I've learned that he was RIGHT. I had a diagnosis. It was my obligation to seek and accept treatment for my illness. Since I hadn't, I was accountable for my behavior. When I finally accepted treatment, I was shown more understanding and tolerance. You often get some points for effort. Plus, I never yelled at or intimidated anyone at work again after my return(s).

Prior to my first hospitalization, my husband was an enabler of sorts. He knew I was ill. He knew I drank too much, but accepted it and insufficiently spoke out about it. That didn't do me any good, honestly. I needed to hit a type of bottom to get help, and I did. This sounds weird, but I'm thankful that I did before I caused too much damage to myself, and especially to others. I will have new chances in the future. I, like many people with bipolar disorder, will likely need/want to start afresh where people don't know my history. I guess that will be difficult for someone like Morgan Freeman, who is very well known. Will people forgive him if he "repents", in a sense, and stops that "dirty old man" behavior from this point on?

I'm assuming that Kevin Spacey's, Weinstein's, and Cosby's careers are definitely over. They may likely never be heard from again since they might be in prison for a while, or just plain fear or repulse people too much. I can definitely understand that. However, what about people whose behavior is terrible, but not criminal? Or what about criminals who serve their time and seem reformed? I'm not religious, but I do forgive and try not to hold grudges, especially over the past 13-15 years, when I've needed forgiveness.

Interesting. I too have wondered how many men I’ve harassed while hypomanic. I. Can remember at least a few.

I'm so sick of hearing about the MeToo stuff, I could puke. In most cases, as long as everyone involved is an adult, freaking use your voice and speak up if you don't like what someone says or does. Men or women. It's gotten so I'm afraid to sincerely compliment someone for fear of being accused of sexual innuendo. I swear, a lot of people need some healthy stimulation in life, instead of coming up with all kinds of drama and trash.

I’m glad about the ‘me too’ movement. Even adults can lose their voices with a sexual come-on. I was mute until I was in my 30s. I froze and then hated myself, felt ashamed and could not talk. When I finally did==oh it was so freeing. I hope all the ‘me toos’ are freed also.

I’m disappointed in Morgan Freeman, who I really liked.

The women didn’t ruin his life. Visa didn’t ruin his life. (I doubt his life is ruined too). But the consequences of some of his actions have caught up to him—so now he’s paying the piper.

LOL. I guess I'm never one not to speak up when I sense injustice to myself or to anyone else. I frequently get in trouble for my rather, um, loud voice...so to speak.

I agree that he should pay some consequences, but hopefully they should be in line with the severity of his actions and no more. From what I heard of his actions, they weren't severe enough to warrant never hearing from him again. If they were, then I could understand a permanent departure. I'm satisfied with his apologies as long as he learns from the experience and stops his dirty old man ways. As a person with bipolar disorder, I've had to learn from inappropriate things I've done. I finally accepted treatment and don't do those things anymore.

There are people I've met in the past who will never be friendly with me despite my accepting treatment and not behaving poorly again. I will also struggle in ways in the future as a result of stigma of mental illness and things I did wrong. Is that a good punishment for me? Perhaps you say yes. Perhaps you would never be friendly with me.

I never had a job where mass numbers of people knew me. It might be possible that I can start a career elsewhere with anonymity. People like Morgan Freeman? Should he just be forced to retire?

I agree that the Me Too movement is a very good thing, as long as it doesn't start hurting people way significantly harsher than is warranted. I know this discussion makes me seem horrible to some, but I have felt something akin to what Morgan Freeman might be feeling. Let there be no more chances for me? Or any chances for others?

I haven't heard about his case. I hope he's inocent. I like the guy too.

pirilin, I don't think he is innocent of what he did. He's not claiming innocence, but the issue is if what he did was so bad as the ruin his career. He did nothing illegal. Just very inappropriate. I've done and said inappropriate things in the past, too. Both of us have apologized. If we stop the behavior, how punished should we be?

I approached someone at work about having an affair when i was hypomanic. She said no and that was the end of it. I have wondered if she could have made a complaint if she wanted. It was inappropriate, but I don't think it was harassment.

(I hope there are more chances for everyone who has learned and changed for the better through their journey. I too have learned and changed--thank god!)

I agree entirely with your post, Birdie. It seems like society in general has absolutely zero tolerance for people being simply human. Everyone makes mistakes. Geez. People don't deserve to be crucified for slipping up a bit.

Yes, I believe that it is essential in life to learn and change for the better.


That said, with regard specifically to Bipolar Disorder, where is the line between being able to control certain impulses because we learned how to control them, and being manic and unable to control oneself until we receive treatment?

Anyway, I don't mean to change the topic of this thread. I just had that thought.

Thanks for all of your honest responses, SeekerSeeking.

That is a big question. For me, the answer has changed throughout the years, but still isn't completely definitive.

I'm lucky that I finally accepted my diagnosis when I did, but as I said, I still wish it had been sooner. It also took longer than just accepting to make significant changes. I'm still plenty flawed.

Obviously my life situation is different than that of a star's. I will never know what that is like for some. I do know that fame does negative things to stars as well as positive. How those negatives show themselves seem to vary from what I've seen. What seems wonderful to regular people is oddly not completely so to those with fame. Think of all the famous people who die prematurely. Eventually turn people off. Do illegal things thinking their fame makes them above the law. Many people have some bit of poison in them. Even the best of people.

That's an interesting perspective. I've never thought it it that way. When a famous person does something outside of the law I think, "Hmm. That person is just human, after all." It has not occurred to me that they might believe they have been given "special privileges" by the universe.

"Dirty old man" behaviour is still sexual harassment and inappropriate and, yes, ought to be addressed. It should not be turned a blind eye to. Sexual misconduct is not limited to physical contact. Mental illness is not an excuse.

I absolutely agree with you. The main point, however, is how severely punished should one be at various levels of these abuses to inappropriate behavior? And there are other categories of abuse and misconduct besides "sexual".

Right now there are high officials in our government that have exceeded "dirty old man" status and yet their severe indiscretions remain practically unaddressed. Practically unaddressed by some of the same people who wish to tar and feather people like Morgan Freeman, who unlike others, admitted to his indiscretions and apologized. I'm also worried about this hypocrisy going on in my country.

***Bingo!***

Lots of anger here...

I’m angry too,

I can’t take freakin meds. I’m sick of it

I go back and forth about that. Sometimes I can be surprised as the person I am talking to about what just came out of my mouth. It doesn't mean there shouldn't be consequences, but mental state should be considered when deciding what the consequences are.