[Moose72]

My pdoc just called me back. I'd talked with her yesterday and told her how restless I've been feeling for a week or two. She said that Rexulti can do that. I was already on Ativan for akathisia. She took me off Ativan and wrote a new prescription for Klonopin which I've never been on before. She said it's longer lasting than Ativan and will help my sleep.

Any thoughts? @*Beth* ?

[Victoria'smom]

I was on kolodipin for mania a couple of times.

[*Beth*]

Well, since Ativan and Klonopin are both benzos you're probably already familiar with the addictive potential. But I'll copy and paste here what I posted on another thread about K-pin:

I was prescribed K-pin roughly 30 years ago, 1 mg./day (bedtime). Benzos were very popular back then. For the first about two years the K-pin was an excellent medication to reduce anxiety and to help me sleep. After that I started to build up a tolerance to it, so I had some anxiety again. My pdoc added 1 mg. in the morning.

I remained on the 2mg./day, with occasional increases to 3mg. per day. So here I am, still taking Klonopin. It isn't doing anything to decrease anxiety, nor is it helping with sleep. The problem is that my body is addicted to the stuff. In November I began decreasing the dose, so now I'm taking .5mg. in the morning and 1mg. at bedtime. Next week I'm going to try to eliminate the AM dose altogether.

I will feel successful if I can make it to .5 mg./day. At that point I will shave off minuscule bits with the goal of stopping the K-pin, altogether. But it will take about a year to stop it, if I can without having a terrible ongoing withdrawal syndrome. I want to stop taking the K-pin because it has definitely caused me to have cognitive problems. There is some strong evidence that long-term benzo use can cause dementia.

So that's my "benzo story."

With all of that, I still believe that benzos are an excellent medication as long as the same dose isn't used daily for more than about 6 months. It needs to be either a prn med, or taken for a while, then either reduced or stopped, then used again. (I would use otc sleep meds to alternate with the benzo.)

Moose, I'll add that I was prescribed Ativan once, many years ago, and found it really strange. I had black-outs on it. For example, I went to a festival with my niece and all I could recall the next day was riding in her car and getting out of her car. I lost the rest of the day and have never recovered the memory. I didn't stay on Ativan for very long.

[Moose72]

Thanks for that, Beth. I have been on .5 mg of Ativan 2x a day for four months. I don't feel addicted to it. I have taken it exactly as prescribed. The Klonopin dose is also .5 mg. Pdoc says it lasts longer per dose than the Ativan. That's weird -- and scary!- that you had blackouts on Ativan . Also my pdoc only gave me 2 refills on the Klonopin.

[Scooter9]

Klonopin helped my anxiety a lot, I just needed one .5mg dose in the morning and I was good for 12 hours. It is a powerful drug.

The problem I had with it was that I became silent; I didn't say anything to anyone all day. So it knocked out my anxiety at the cost of speaking with my family and friends. I didn't get addicted to it even though I was on it for 3 months. I just stopped it one day to the next. I had rebound anxiety but I was able to stop it.

I switched to gabapentin. It's not as good as Klonopin but it works well enough for me to get some relief from the anxiety. The downside is that I have to take it 3 times a day but at least I'm talking with my family now.

I know it's anecdotal but that's my story. I hope it helps.

[*Beth*]

The blackouts were seriously creepy.

Now when I say "addicted" to the K-pin, I don't mean psychologically addicted. I mean physically addicted. In other words, if I skip a dose of K-pin I get physically sick. If I skip 2 doses I'll be dangerously sick. For example, the time before the last one when I was put IP they didn't give me my evening and morning doses and I started having flu-like symptoms, including vomiting badly. (Another less than fab IP experience.)

It sounds like your pdoc is managing your benzos really smartly, though. So that's great.

[JaneOnceMore]

I'm a long-time benzo user too. I got extremely sick in my early thirties when my life was chaos and i wasn't in contact with a doctor and went into withdrawal.

Ativan is ten times the strength of Valium. Clonazepam (Klonopin) is twenty times the strength of Valium. My understanding is that benzos lose their effectiveness after a mere two weeks of continuous use, but then you are left with the dependence on them.

My current doctor helped me reduce the harm of my Clonazepam use (oversedation) by substituting in Valium and cutting down on it, as it can be reduced in small, relatively comfortable amounts ("The Ashton Method"). I got down to five mg of Valium and couldn't go any lower as i was having trouble with fear and anger. I was really uncomfortable.

So i've decided to stay on five mg of Valium indefinitely which is still a significant reduction, down 75% of my dose of Clonazepam. I don't like being dependent but it's the best i can do and at least i am waking up at a decent hour in the morning at 7:30am, instead of two o'clock in the afternoon.

I wish i'd been more cautious with benzos back when i started but i was in a terrible crisis, an absurdly messy divorce and career imploding. I recall my doctor advising me of the risks but i was so desperate i didn't listen. Now i'm dependent for life.

[*Beth*]

The Ashton Method is such a smart was to withdraw from Klonopin @JaneOnceMore. You're so fortunate to have a doctor who uses it. I can't believed how ignorant most pdocs are about using the Ashton Method! I haven't found one yet who will use it. I have an appointment with a new prescriber next week; I will ask her about K-pin withdrawal, but my expectations have become low.

[bizi]

I have been on klonipin for years. to help me sleep at night. I sleep well when I take it. I take 1mg at night.

One day3 years ago my pdoc decided to discontinue the klonipin and start me on melatonin. which did not work. I begged her to go back on the klonipin she would not. I had extra from before so I took them when I was back in IN for a funeral for my mother in law. It had been a very rough time and I ended up inpatient when we got back home. for 1 month, my regular meds had stopped working so they changed things up and I became psychotic from the abrupt discontinuation of geodon. I finally got some stabilitywith the current meds and was discharged to my husband. and then 6 weeks of Intense out patient. When I got better I left a week early I really needed to get back to my business.I was able to restart my business. and got a new psych nurse practitioner who would allow me to go back on my klonipin.Bless her. Sleep is the key for me to stay sane.

that is my experience with klonipin.

[Moose72]

Last night was my first dose and I slept very well and got up at a reasonable hour but that's because N3 called to invite me to breakfast. I got a shower and took my meds including my 2nd dose of Klonopin. N3 picked me up as I'm not supposed to drive on the Klonopin. Good thing, too, because the pill kicked in when we got to the restaurant and I was dozey throughout breakfast and when I got back. After a little while I couldn't stand it anymore and took a nap. Three hours! Now I'm just watching Netflix and I'm going to go to bed and watch more of the last season of Breaking Bad.

[*Beth*]

That's so good, I'm glad it's helping you sleep.

[Soupe du jour]

I found Klonopin a waste for me. Years on it for seemingly no reason, as it did nothing for my past anxiety. At least my dose was fairly low, so it didn't take too long to get off.

Ativan did work for me, most of the time, when I wasn't abusing it. Then later down the line I was taking it daily, for years, for akathisia. It worked to a degree for akathia, but since it wasn't long-lasting, I'd wake up to excruciating restlessness each morning until it kicked in again. Eventually I was weaned off the antipsychotic that caused it (Geodon). It took a long time as Geodon withdrawal is hell, especially from 160 mg after years on it. Then it took a while to get off of Ativan. Now I only take 1 mg once or twice per month, not day. I do not recommend benzos for akathisia. I just don't.

[Moose72]

It's really helped my akathisia. Before I was rocking back and forth and moving my lips and tongue around lik3 crazy,. Also smacking my lips. I've been off Haldol for months so it's not that. You could definitely tell when I was doing those. and all my friends and family noticed

[raspberrytorte]

I had a bad experience coming off of klonopin because I had to get a new pdoc who didn't prescribe benzos, and she took me off 4mg daily in two months. It was hell. It was a nightmare! Words can not explain! Now I'm stuck on 15mg of Valium I don't recommend taking klonopin or any benzo daily.

[Nammu]

I never liked benzos. I do drink, but one one, sometimes two but never to the point I feel the dizzying effects. That’s what benzos do, they give me that dizzying effect and I hate it. I don’t like feeling drugged. But benzos were all the rage back then and was was put on all of them, sometimes more than one at the same time as my anxiety was obvious and a symptom that they wanted to eliminate. I’d go off them all the time and sometimes have seizures from quitting too abruptly. When I was on pain meds for my back the pain med doctor told me I couldn’t be on them anymore and switched me to propranolol . I’m so grateful to her. It works far better than any benzo for my anxiety and no high feelings. I wasn’t tapered off I just quit and took the propranolol. I don’t recall having trouble with quitting. I did taper off the pain pills but I went a lot faster than the pain doctor was weaning me. After my surgery I could “feel” them and just wanted off. But all that said using benzos to counter akathisia is different ballgame, it targets a different element. I’m not in favor of using them as a sleeping pill. That’s dangerous.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by raspberrytorte

I had a bad experience coming off of klonopin because I had to get a new pdoc who didn't prescribe benzos, and she took me off 4mg daily in two months. It was hell. It was a nightmare! Words can not explain! Now I'm stuck on 15mg of Valium I don't recommend taking klonopin or any benzo daily.

My God, 2 months! That's inhumane - and potentially dangerous. It's no wonder you're dependent on the Valium.

[SquarePegGuy]

My wife has been on K-pin for many years. At one point she was at 2mg/day (split between AM and PM). But the newest prescriber said that more than 1mg / day is not much more effective, so that's where she's at now. She still has bouts of anxiety.

[Brentus]

I took Klonopin in really weird , but prescribed , ways but it never helped me with anxiety. When I say weird I mean the regimen was like “0.5 pill every other day for a week. Then 0.5 pill once every day for a week, then 1mg pill every other day thereafter. “ I never understood it really. However, It did make me drowsy though.

I remember it is considered long acting compared to others such as Ativan of Xanax. I hope you find it helpful for you. No medicine comes without its concerns , especially controlled substances , about dependence or abuse— but when taken as prescribed with a knowledgeable doctor, I think the dependence and abuse potential become less of a struggle. Long time use is a nuanced and controversial thing — but no one deserves to suffer. If it’s beneficial, perhaps it’s worth the risks associated.

[raspberrytorte]

Originally Posted by *Beth*

My God, 2 months! That's inhumane - and potentially dangerous. It's no wonder you're dependent on the Valium.

I know! It was horrible. She was a ****** pdoc anyway though. I'm happy I don't see her anymore. I know my current pdoc would know how to take me off Valium if I asked him, but I'm scared!