[unaluna]

I getcha now! Like when a person who shall remain unnamed carved her freakin name into the bumper of my pretty little car, keyed the entire body, and ripped off the windshield wipers and cracked the side mirrors, and THEN I knew for sure I could no longer have feelings for this person? That is a bad path to be on - I think something truly died in me that day. It was like in the movies, I shook my head and blinked my eyes, and I thought, "If I turn around and come back thru the garage door again, maybe it will look different this time!" I think hope died. I think you think if you admit you don't like what happened, you will have to kill hope. I think if you can get in with a good therapist, maybe hope can survive.

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by Beana77

Is this one of those forums that subtly punishes you if you don't heed advice or follow the party line? Not a judgment, but I've experienced that before and it didn't feel good. I know I should walk away, but it aint easy. What do I do while I decide how to proceed? Argh. I'm lost and don't know which way is up anymore. I feel more detached than before, but I don't know if I'm playing with fire. I guess I already know the answer to that...

Hey, I won't be offended if you don't follow my advice. It is simply my opinion and I admit a rather emotionally charged one at that as I have been threatened and blackmailed by an ex for 3 1/2 years because he decided he didn't want to work anymore, ran a hobby 'business' that afforded him lots of time for golf, skiing, holidays and lunches out with 'networking' buddies with large losses for 5 years. I was stupid enough to be working at the time we separated, and the lawyers all focus on that and ignore the fact that he has the same level of post-secondary education and professional qualifications as me and was never a stay at home Dad. So....I know all about narcissists. They suck the life (and all your financial resources) out of you.

On the other hand, if you absolutely adore him, if he is self sufficient, if you are really really really good at protecting your boundaries, are prepared to leave him if he every turns emotionally and/or physically abusive, are prepared to shoulder 90% of the workload at home and have a prenup that absolutely absolves you of ever, ever having to support him and also protects you from any gambling/drug/excessive spending/hobby 'businesses' or other expensive addictions along with the debt those will inevitably cause then perhaps it can work out. Sorry to be so negative but I don't want to see anybody suffer the way I did and still am.

[Beana77]

All very good points. I don't think he's going to destroy my property or try to live off of me, though his request for payment would suggest he is capable of the latter. He lives in another state so the distance keeps things in check. He poses the greatest threat to my ego at this point, but I've decided to recategorize him in my mind. He used to be in column A and now he's in column B. We'll see if that works for me. If not, I'm totally prepared to cut off contact.

athena - I'm really sorry for what you've gone through and are still going through. I really like the way you describe the type of person that could potentially have a successful relationship with a narcissist. It totally makes sense. I'm not contemplating a romantic relationship with D (that's not even an option because he doesn't want me), just a friendship. I'm still licking my wounds from his rejection, but we are slowly getting back to platonic harmony. I'm not saying it's healthy, but at least I don't feel as needy and distraught.

hankster - I know what you mean about a piece of you dying when someone you love displays malicious behavior. That really sucks. I've been on both ends of that equation and your story me very resolved to never be the perpetrator of that kind of behavior again.

[StrawberryFieldsss]

Originally Posted by Beana77

I have my own issues...I have bipolar disorder with borderline traits. Over a year ago I joined a mental health support forum to gain some insight into my problems and offer support to others when I could. One of the regular posters sent me a private message and we started chatting (he's a he and I'm a she). Fast forward a year and we've been talking every day and this person is pretty much my best friend. We had our ups and downs, but overall it was safe because we live 1,200 miles apart. He has been diagnosed BPD, but I didn't find him to be that difficult to deal with. He talks about suicide a lot and needs constant stroking/reassurance, but I'm very tolerant. I accepted that our relationship was pretty one-sided because I enjoy talking to him and I feel he understands the way I think. I know I should have known that the relationship had red flags all over it, but I didnt' care.

Fast forward to 3 weeks ago and we met in person for the first time after 13 months of talking every day. We had a great time and it felt like a date even though I swore I wouldn't let it go there. We had sex that night and the next day and then he cooled off and things got weird. His ten day trip ended with him saying something very hurtful and me unraveling and threatening to overdose on pills. Yes, I became the borderline. We got through that, but here's the dramatic twist - I had a miscarriage two days ago. I was stupid and told him via text message, but his response was all about him with no concern for me at all. I realized that this is always how he always responds to me when I have an issue of any kind.

I'm being forced to confront my own BPD traits while confronting his inability to have empathy. I feel completely obsessed with him and my mood depends entirely on whether I've heard from him or whether he's upset with me or not. I'm not sure what I'm looking for here, but I just think it's crazy that I was seeking support in a forum and ended up being worse off than I was before. I know I should have known it would turn out this way, but I feel completely chewed up and spit out. He was so affectionate and sweet those first few days and he really roped me in and then discarded me. He says he wants to remain friends, but I'm not sure it's healthy for us to stay in touch. I don't want to abandon him because he thinks everyone hates him (he pushes everyone away and then complains that he has nobody). I'm realizing that the only way to have a relationship with him (friendship or otherwise) is to subjugate my feelings and make it all about him all the time. I take the blame for everything and apologize constantly. I've had my grievances and my drama moments, but in the end I'm always apologizing. I have a history with cluster B types, but I thought it would be different with him because he knows he has a problem. I don't know what to do. I love him so much, but I'm so mad at myself for falling into this trap again. I feel really desperate and alone... I've put so much energy into this person that I've neglected the other people in my life that could be supporting me right now.

Where I'm at with this person (let's call him D) is confusing. We have intermittent strained contact and he has been very distant. Right now he's very mad because I told him about the miscarriage via text and he won't respond to me. I plan to try to call him later, but I'm tired of putting myself out there and getting stomped. I feel like he'll never get over the things that I've done to upset him and I can never apologize enough to satisfy him. It's soooo unlike me to swallow my true feelings and take all the blame, but I feel like I have to do it.

One example is the cause of the meltdown on his last day in town. We were walking to the train on our way to a football game. He had spent the previous night with another friend and he commented on how many hot young girls were at the bar they went to. I calmly told him I didn't want to hear about that and when he showed no awareness, I got progressively more and more upset. By the time we got to the game, I was fuming and he could feel it. He insisted that we leave at halftime because I had ruined the game for him. He was furious with me. A few days later he asked me to pay him back for the cost of the tickets to erase the awful memory and make up for ruining his childhood dream of going to a Raiders game (oh the drama). Here's the kicker - I payed him even though I was initially disgusted and offended by the request. I am in a constant state of desperation to stay in his good graces, it's embarrassing.

do yourself a favor and cut all contact. you deserve better. hes done nothing but exploit you and take advantage of you, and he'll continue to if you let him

[StrawberryFieldsss]

oh wow i'm late to the party. i should know better and read all of the responses.

you sound like you want to stay in touch with this guy. well, as long as youre aware of the potential consequences, then i guess youre going to do what youre going to do. good luck!

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by StrawberryFieldsss

oh wow i'm late to the party. i should know better and read all of the responses.

you sound like you want to stay in touch with this guy. well, as long as youre aware of the potential consequences, then i guess youre going to do what youre going to do. good luck!

I honestly don't know what I want. I'm slowly extricating myself from the hold he has on me. He's acting like nothing happened at this point, like we never met and we're just long distance buddies again. I guess that's one way of dealing with things...

[athena2011]

Originally Posted by Beana77

I honestly don't know what I want. I'm slowly extricating myself from the hold he has on me. He's acting like nothing happened at this point, like we never met and we're just long distance buddies again. I guess that's one way of dealing with things...

A one-way relationship is just no fun. Eventually it will feel very degrading. I've found that loving a black hole just doesn't work. This 'come here, go away' frustration you seem to experiencing is an example of the ambivalence we BPDrs seem to show. I think it comes from the fact that we know they're not right for us but we don't feel we can get somebody better. I believe we can, it just takes time to figure out how to get out of our own way.

[cboxpalace]

Originally Posted by Beana77

It's really fascinating because I posted in psychforums about this, and the advice is really different. It's similar in that I'm being warned that this person may chew me up and spit me out, but it's less of a "steer clear no matter what" message. Part of me thinks that if I can just detach emotionally and put him in a different category in my mind, I can maintain a friendship. I will give myself another two weeks and see how I feel. It's so difficult for me to walk away from people. I hate being abandoned so much that I can't bear to do it to others.

(I'm probably going to come across as a real a$$hole here, so please take the tone out of how it's coming across and focus on what I'm saying.. If I didn't care I wouldn't bother responding... )

The only advice that matters is.... mine!! Also the question that you asked on psychforums was a bit different than what is being asked here, however the info that I provided there would still apply here... Here's the thing... It's my opinion then, and now..that you do not have the capability of just detaching from this person in your mind. In regards to this relationship.. there is NO quick fix for you, and that is what you were looking for.

What is the title of this thread..."He's turned your life upside down" I'm assuming that's not in the same context as "He rocked your world". The best thing for you ** at this moment ** is to cut contact with him. This is what you struggle with, and I recommend to keep at it (you did manage to ignore his text. That's not a game. It's progress for you). I do believe that time heals wounds, and after sufficient time has passed you can be friends again if that's what you both choose. Unfortunately, ** at this moment ** what you don't have is time. It sucks to be in emotional distress, but each day it becomes a little easier, and next month you're not going to feel like you do now.

I have the easy part in giving you advice (which I'm confident in), you have the hard part of taking actions, whether it's my advice (which is 99.5% reliable) or someone else's . I'm in no way offended if you choose to ignore everything I've said. You're still a friend, and I'll always give you an honest opinion.

I wish you well!!

p.s. I'm probably closer to around 99.8% reliable, but who's counting...

I decided that I'm not done yet... Let's look at some things you've said. Seriously, you're all over the place, and I don't want to hear how you were trapped or anything else.. It's reality check time.

I plan to try to call him later, but I'm tired of putting myself out there and getting stomped.

You're tired of putting yourself out there and getting stomped on yet you're going to call him later... why?

He says he wants to remain friends, but I'm not sure it's healthy for us to stay in touch.

Let's look at your words...

I feel completely chewed up and spit out. ** the only way to have a relationship with him is to subjugate my feelings and make it all about him all the time. **** I take the blame for everything and apologize constantly. ** It's soooo unlike me to swallow my true feelings and take all the blame, but I feel like I have to do it. *** he really roped me in and then discarded me. *** I've put so much energy into this person that I've neglected the other people in my life that could be supporting me right now.

Do you think it's healthy for you to stay in touch with him?

I don't want to abandon him because he thinks everyone hates him (he pushes everyone away and then complains that he has nobody).

You don't want to abandon him (good) yet he's making you feel like ****. So the question is.. Why does his needs take priority over yours?

He had spent the previous night with another friend and he commented on how many hot young girls were at the bar they went to. I calmly told him I didn't want to hear about that and when he showed no awareness, I got progressively more and more upset. By the time we got to the game, I was fuming and he could feel it.

Do you realize that your behavior is NORMAL? No one wants to hear the person that their attracted to talking about a person of the opposite sex in the slightest of sexual ways.

A few days later he asked me to pay him back for the cost of the tickets

you paid him, but the appropriate response would've been "F**k you" .

I'm NOT making fun of you or trying to put you down, but do you see how you aren't respecting yourself? Is this making sense?
I'm absolutely using your words against you, because you KNOW the answers to your questions, and I want you to see that. These are ALL your issues that you need to work on for yourself to make you better. By catering to him, and ignoring yourself.. that's your dysfunction.

Not wanting to abandon him is a GREAT thing, and I'm not saying abandon him. What I am saying is you need to create sufficient space where your obsessive emotions can die down. When that happens there will be enough emotional distance where the two of you could be friends if that's what you want. Without the emotional distance it will be a long and miserable experience.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by cboxpalace

(I'm probably going to come across as a real a$$hole here, so please take the tone out of how it's coming across and focus on what I'm saying.. If I didn't care I wouldn't bother responding... )

Are you my clone?

[Beana77]

choxpalace - Wow. It's hard to deny reality when you put it that way. You're right, you're totally and completely right, not just 99.5%. I'm able to answer my own questions and see the right path, but I feel completely powerless to actually take it. This experience is making me face how borderline I actually am myself. It's frightening, but necessary.

I love that you're on both forums and noticed that my story was a bit different over there. He's on that forum (that's how we "met") so I held back a bit in fear that he might read what I wrote. He no longer posts in the borderline forum because he felt judged there (fascinating), but it's still a risk in case he tracks my posts (I do that with his... yes a bit stalkerish).

Thank you for validating my being upset over the "hot girls" comment. Coming from a man that means a lot. His response "Why are you mad... I didn't have fun and nothing came of it?" was the icing on the cake. I'm not supposed to be mad because you didn't get lucky? Really? I know this was his way of putting up a wall because we had just had "the talk" about where we stood the day before (I cried... a lot). He knew I was getting really attached (ten days of sleeping in my bed every night and spending all day together will do that) and this was his way of telling me that wasn't a good idea. I wouldn't have been that mad about it if he would have apologized right away because we all say stupid things sometimes. However, I'm 34 and 10 pounds overweight (but still attractive as he assured me of on numerous occasions during the first 3 days of his visit... maybe it was all ********), so commenting on hot young girls is really a pointed attack on my self-esteem no matter how he rationalizes it.

So here I am on Christmas Eve writing in a support forum. I will wait until the new year to cut off contact because the holidays are so rough and he doesn't have much support. Yes, I know that's highly dysfunctional but it will cause me a great deal of distress to ignore him on Christmas or New Years. He may not contact me, which is fine... I won't initiate. I feel much more detached than I did when I first posted here, so I think I'm making progress. I've accepted that he can't give me what I want and that I need some space. I still hope it's him when my phone rings or beeps, but that has calmed down as well. I'm healing... slowly but surely. Your perspective and advice helped me a lot though. Thank you for that. I need to be hammered over the head (lovingly) with reality sometimes.

Happy Holidays everyone! I hope you're all coping with it okay. It can be rough.

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by athena2011

A one-way relationship is just no fun. Eventually it will feel very degrading. I've found that loving a black hole just doesn't work. This 'come here, go away' frustration you seem to experiencing is an example of the ambivalence we BPDrs seem to show. I think it comes from the fact that we know they're not right for us but we don't feel we can get somebody better. I believe we can, it just takes time to figure out how to get out of our own way.

It's interesting that you use the phrase black hole because that's how I sometimes see him. I gave him a massage (I'm a massage therapist... sort of) and usually I get a read on a persons aura and energy when I work on them. With him, all I felt was an endless abyss of blackness. I can't describe it, but if I saw auras I'm sure his would be black. Maybe that's what I like about him, which is scary.

I think the source of his ambivalence is what you describe. He thinks he can get someone hotter, but I'm the only one who puts up with his ****. Therein lies the rub...

[Beana77]

cboxpalace - sorry I misspelled your name.

[unaluna]

Isn't it part of our repetition compulsion, wanting to get it to come out right THIS TIME? That's part (all?) of what our transference towards T is about too (in my case for sure). And how embarrassed am I that the person I think is my clone is a he? Well not embarrassed but WTF. It's not my fault, I was raised by wolves, male wolves. I ordered Susan Anderson's Outer Child Abandoholic book that somebody else recommended on PC today, that looks interesting. You kids are so lucky today you have all this info.

[theGirlNextDorm]

Haven't checked if anyone has said this yet, but I guess I'll say it. Narcissism and bipolar disorder are unrelated. I'm no psychologist, but I think narcissism is more of a personality defect rather than an illness. And BPD is considered a mood disorder. So, it sounds as if D is just very narcissistic on top of his bpd. If he didn't have bpd he would probably still be narcissistic, and perhaps knowing that he has bpd, he allows himself to be a narcissist because he thinks that's how he needs to deal with it.
Some people take having a problem as an escuse to be self-centered. Regardless, this guy has hung you out to dry, and darling, you deserve so much better. You've tried helping him long enough, and now it's time for a professional to step in (he could use a tough therapist). You have my best wishes! Merry Christmas!

[cboxpalace]

Originally Posted by Beana77

choxpalace - Wow. It's hard to deny reality when you put it that way. You're right, you're totally and completely right, not just 99.5%. I'm able to answer my own questions and see the right path, but I feel completely powerless to actually take it. This experience is making me face how borderline I actually am myself. It's frightening, but necessary.

Maybe it would help to print out that post, and keep it with you. When you get the urge to call/txt/email whatever.. read it as a reminder.. Idk worth a shot. You're right, I was thinking I was closer to 99.85.. I thought I was low-balling myself with 99.5%..

I love that you're on both forums and noticed that my story was a bit different over there.

I did realize the difference..

However, I'm 34 and 10 pounds overweight (but still attractive as he assured me of on numerous occasions during the first 3 days of his visit... maybe it was all ********), so commenting on hot young girls is really a pointed attack on my self-esteem no matter how he rationalizes it.

ur welcome on the validation! 10 pds overweight is nothing.. Maybe we should start talking... Feel free to pm here..

So here I am on Christmas Eve writing in a support forum. I will wait until the new year to cut off contact because the holidays are so rough and he doesn't have much support.

1. Me 2
2. I wouldn't.. Again, you're making excuses.
3. I don't have any support either!! Let's talk!!

I need to be hammered over the head (lovingly) with reality sometimes.

Trust me, I enjoy it!!

Happy Holidays everyone! I hope you're all coping with it okay. It can be rough.

u2... I'm alone.. Let's talk!

Hankster -
Are you my clone?

Absolutely NOT! Don't insult me like that!!

thegirlnextdoor -

Haven't checked if anyone has said this yet, but I guess I'll say it. Narcissism and bipolar disorder are unrelated. I'm no psychologist, but I think narcissism is more of a personality defect rather than an illness. And BPD is considered a mood disorder.

This is right and wrong!.. Narcissism and bipolar are unrelated (right). The rest is wrong... bi polar like depression is a mood disorder...
Narcissism, BPD, anti social, avoidant, obsessive - compulsive, schizotypal are all ** personality disorders **

[cboxpalace]

Originally Posted by Beana77

cboxpalace - sorry I misspelled your name.

No problem, Leana99..

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by cboxpalace

Are you my clone?
Absolutely NOT! Don't insult me like that!!

yeah well that's exactly how I would have responded! I enjoy your voice! welcome to PC!

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by cboxpalace

No problem, Leana99..

Funny you should say Leana because that's my screen name in another forum...

You seem like a great guy, but I wouldn't fall into that trap again (developing a personal relationship with someone I "meet" in a forum). I'm so jaded now it's ridiculous. Everyone seems like a potential disaster waiting to happen. Nothing personal, it's just how I have to be right now.

10 pounds is nothing, but I'm normally 20 pounds lighter than I am right now so it's a great source of insecurity. D lost 70 pounds recently and is obsessed with staying fit, so I know my size bothers him. He bought me exercise equipment when he was here, which is so clueless it's funny. So that's why the comment about hot young girls really stung. He made a point to tell me I looked great and wasn't overweight on his first night in town (we talk about our issues with weight a lot because we both have an overeating problem... I probably gave him the impression I was almost obese). That attitude slowly changed over his ten days here and eventually I became too real and my flaws were magnified. If he wouldn't have been so forthcoming with the compliments in the beginning, the disappointment in his eyes wouldn't have hurt so much. I guess that's idealizing and devalueing 101. It really sucks.

Your advice is great and I take it seriously considering it's coming from a borderline man (like D). I am starting to think he's more of a narcissist (that's what my therapist thinks), but I don't want to be one of those people that labels everyone that screws me over as a narcissist. However, his inability to show any empathy when I was upset was chilling to say the least.

I'm sorry you're alone on Christmas too. I have my sister, but the hard thing is being around all the families. I don't even want kids (mostly), but I'm still self-conscious about being single and childless at my age. I'm going to a party on New Years that should be really fun, so that's something to look forward to.

Merry Christmas... God bless us everyone!

[cboxpalace]

Originally Posted by Beana77

You seem like a great guy, but I wouldn't fall into that trap again (developing a personal relationship with someone I "meet" in a forum). I'm so jaded now it's ridiculous. Everyone seems like a potential disaster waiting to happen. Nothing personal, it's just how I have to be right now.

ok!!! well, if you ever change your mind you know where to find me..

Merry Christmas...

u2... I think I'm coming down with a cold..

[cboxpalace]

Originally Posted by hankster

yeah well that's exactly how I would have responded! I enjoy your voice! welcome to PC!

good! It will be fun to have a partner in crime !

[Beana77]

Originally Posted by cboxpalace

ok!!! well, if you ever change your mind you know where to find me..


u2... I think I'm coming down with a cold..

I have a cold too! It's that time of year I guess...

I'm a big failure... I returned D's call today and we've been texting. I think he's feeling pretty lonely with it being Christmas and he knows I will always respond. I'm like a trusty holiday crutch. I'm honestly feeling much more stable about everything. I know deep down he's not the guy for me, so once the bad feelings from his visit fade away, we'll be back to being dysfunctional platonic friends (albeit with a complicated history). Life would be pretty boring without our dysfunctional relationships, right?

Merry Xmas to you and hankster too! Glad you both found a kindred spirit.

[Beana77]

The true test to my sanity finally happened - he talked about asking a girl out. He thinks I can go back to bro status just like that. I handled it better than I would have expected, but it's more evidence to the depth of his cluelessness. I think it's finally sunk in that I need to cut off contact. The question now is, how does one embark on such an enterprise? I need to do it in the right way so I won't relapse. I don't want to just stop responding to him without an explanation... even he deserves better than that. But... I've tried to tell him I needed space before and it triggered a panic reaction and I immediately changed my mind. How do I do this?!

what about what you deserve...?

thinking about others is a wonderful quality...and we tend to do it extremely well...with tremendous expense to ourselves, our lives.

I would consider perhaps...you are not responsible for this persons 'panic' reaction...it is much less, I suspect, than what a relapse would be like for you?

I am not responsible for how others 'feel'
even though I 'feel' like I am

thats what I am trying to do

[Flooded]

When I cut people off, I just do it without an explanation. If they can't work out why, then maybe they need to pull their head from their own arse and take a good, hard look at themselves

[cboxpalace]

Originally Posted by Beana77

I think it's finally sunk in that I need to cut off contact. The question now is, how does one embark on such an enterprise? I need to do it in the right way so I won't relapse. I don't want to just stop responding to him without an explanation... even he deserves better than that.

WHAT?? Seriously!!! We are talking about the guy that was telling you about the hot girls on the way to the football field, the guy that said you ruined the game and insisted on leaving the game at half time, the guy that wanted you to pay him back for the tickets, the guy that makes you feel chewed up and spit and makes you feel like you have to apologize for everything (even when it's not your fault), the guy that roped you in and then discarded you, the guy that takes you away from the people that could be supporting. The same guy that basically treats you like ****!!

This guy?

YOU CAN'T ** NOT ** KNOW HOW TO ANSWER THE QUESTION YOU ASK!!!

Can you please post the answer to your question for me? So I know that some of this is sinking in!!! <--- I am serious about this!!



-cbox