Interpreting Social Group Dynamics

I had something pretty cool happen. The reason I got involved with this group, is because I got involved with another group, and got into a disagreement with the leader on their private facebook page. She basically thinks there is nothing good in the Unitarian univaesalist church... while I attended a few times, and rather enjoyed it, despite the fact I'm an atheist...
anyway, after that confrontation, I told her I wouldn't be coming back... I was contacted about a week later by F.R. who let me know that my experience was quite a common one. She offends people quite easily, and then they never come back..... so, they started another group without her.
So, R.L. has been working on us both, behind the scenes, and was able to work out a reconciliation between (the leader of the other group) and myself. I'm not sure what will happen to this group, now... perhaps it will be integrated into the other somehow.....

Anyway.... I'm kinda embarrassed because I sometimes try to convince others that the Myer's Brigg personality tests are worth considering, and I also like to talk about the free will debate. I'm surprised when I find that people who claim to be materialists have a problem with the idea that we might not have free will. And it's not so much that they disagree, it's that they disagree for what seem to me to be ridiculous reasons.

It can be something of a compulsion for me to convince others to get interested in things that I'm interested in, and to convince them that my way of thinking is the "correct" one.

I didn't really like our last get together on Saturday... It just seems that there is too much drama...
F.R. is just too much to bear.... I find both he and his girlfriend, D.V. to be just so underhanded, assuming and rude.

and in general, all the people in the group look at the world much differently than I do.... All of them listen to The Atheist Experience and agree with everything the hosts say... I, on the other hand, find the hosts of the show to be rude , uneducated people who merely mock anyone who doesn't agree with what they believe about the world.
Because of the way they've been influenced by the show..... I find it hard to talk to them in a meaningful way....
I think I'll skip the next couple of meetings....and see if I feel differently....

shakespeare47, Taking a break sound like a wise move. From what you've described, these are not the type of people I would choose to hang out with.

I felt really defensive around them for some reason..... it wasn't much fun.... I really don't want to be around people who make me feel bad about myself.

I'm reminded of my OP again.... they are reacting towards me as if they all are talking about me behind my back... and have decided certain things about me..... If I had to guess.. it's that they assume I must believe in sin.... I'm not quite sure why they believe this... and I don't like being put in the position where I feel I must defend myself.

I think the main issues are that I lived as a Christian for 40 years..and I'm married to a Christian... I don't think anyone can say that religions are all bad. or that all religious people are bad. I'm of the opinion that religions are man-made.... they arose naturally.... they have good points and bad points... as do all man-made institutions.... This group I've been visiting cannot understand this point of view... anyone who doesn't hate all religion and all religious people, with the same fervency as they do... is suspect... So, I just don't fit in... At least that is how it appears.....

Unfortunately many of them appear to be the type of people that will ask me questions... assuming they know how I will answer... and then whatever my answer is.... they will mock it.... some of them have actually done it in the past.... I find that difficult to tolerate...

I suspect (of course I can't know) that someone will soon ask me about my morals.... in the way I suggest above.

Are there positive benefits in continuing with this group? From what you described lately, I would dread going to these meetings.

I don't know... I'll stay away for a while... I was meeting with them weekly.. I'll skip this week and see how it goes...

Like I said near the beginning.. It seems I feel this way about nearly every group I encounter..... perhaps it's just something that people do... and that I need to learn to tolerate... the best way I know how... I could keep to myself more... and just talk to the people I can tolerate...

I skipped last week as I had planned.... I didn't miss them much... I took my wife and son out to dinner and a movie instead...

Regarding the group:

There is another person in attendance.. M.Z. I thought I really liked her.. She was cool, and well read, and insightful, and we talked about a lot of things, and we agreed on a lot... then the last time I saw her, she basically mocked me, and told me she thought I was the type of person who believed everything they read on wikipedia...

I don't like to be misunderstood in that way.... I don't like be put in a position where I have to defend myself.....and I think what she was displaying was a logical fallacy known as The Genetic Fallacy...

What she doesn't realize, is that the truth is the truth.... it's origin doesn't matter... if something it true, then it's true.. it doesn't matter if it is on wikipedia... and when one argues, one argues about the merits.....

It saddens me that should fell into that fallacy without even realizing it.

And wikipedia is obviously not the end-all of wisdom.. but, it's a good place to start.... and it always has some great references to read, if one wants to research a topic.

Another example of groupthink? I'm also clearly being mocked for thinking that religions deserve any respect... or have ever had any positive influences on anyone.... they all agree (that religions have no positive qualities), and know that I disagree.. so, they're making it painful for me.

shakespeare47, Generally, you only post negative things about your group experience. Sounds like you had a nice time with your family!

I did have a very nice time with my family...

I still think D.S. is a pretty cool guy, despite what he says about kids... He's actually defended me a few times... and just generally seems like a nice guy.. plus, he seems like the type to actually admit he is wrong sometimes.... and he is bold enough to point out that he doesn't always go along with what the "group" thinks......

I'm debating whether or not I want to do anything with them this week....

I think I may go back from time to time... and try to understand where they are coming from... I think I can do that, without allowing them to influence me too much..

Okay... well, now I've started my own philosophy discussion group.. it may be just myself and a philosophy instructor from the local college for now, we'll see..

We have our first meeting on thursday.

shakespeare47, Wow! That's awesome! Best of luck to you. Please let us know how the Thursday philosophy discussion group meeting goes!

Thanks so much! I'll be sure to report back. It was cool how it all fell together.. I know a few of the professors at the college, and I told them I was looking to either join or start a philosophy discussion group, they put me in contact with one of their philosophy professors, and we were able to put something together very quickly.

P.Z. is pretty cool, too. He's tolerant, and funny, and smart... and was a UU attender, and has very few issues with religious people, but rather has defended them. He's just a likeable guy.

But, I think I did something to piss him off. I can be very arrogant...

There are people in the group that I do want to like me.. and then there are people in the group I'd like never to see again...

So, last night was our first philosophy group... I got the better end of the deal. I'm a newcomer to philosophy, and I got to sit with 2 college level philosophy professors and pick their brains.

We talked about just what philosophy is... and the basics

and then meandered into the topic of free will. We decided to read a book on the topic and discuss it from now on.

J.K. and L.B. were in attendance... They're both appear to be softspoken, really cool people. They're both very open-minded philosophy professors, and I hope I can learn a thing or 2 from them.

shakespeare47, Sounds like your first night went well!

Had a great time with my atheist friends tonight.. Not sure what changed, but we were just talking about things like raising kids, and what movies we liked, and philosophy ( I introduced them to the idea of a p-zombie). I ended up spending about 4 1/2 hours with them.

I really enjoyed myself. It was the best night out I've had in quite some time.

It's funny how things change with time.... thinking about the group again, I still feel the need to back off, to get away, because I still do not like the groupthink. I feel social pressure not to talk about the good I see in religions. and religious people. They are just way too anti-religion for my tastes..
and I'm sorry, but the denialism in regards to Jesus' historicity, is just too much.


Philosophy is the way to go...

shakespeare47, I'm glad you started a Philosophy Group and that it is filling a need that was missing in your life.

I'll keep my fingers crossed !

We weren't able to have our regular group meeting, but I did meet with J.K. yesterday for lunch. We talked about free will. We're coming at it from as a logical puzzle. How is it that we have free will, if we live in a deterministic universe (we both assume we do)?

I also enjoyed picking his brain on what kind of religious beliefs ancient philosophers had.

All right.. I'm in an Engineering class this semester.. and I appear to be having a problem with the person who is sitting next to me... he appears to be a dumbass who thinks he can treat me with disrespect.. while asking me to help him.
People like that really bother me... It's like they are demanding that I react to them.... they say and do rude things, and then ask (sometimes openly, sometimes it's just their attitude) "oh, did that bother you? what are you going to do about it?"

How to deal honestly with it... how to disengage?

shakespeare47, If possible sit further away from this person. Right away this should give an indication that you are not this guy's buddy. Maybe this alone will be enough to discourage him from further contact.

If this doesn't work, next time he interrupts you, tell him you are here to learn and need to pay attention to the instructor; and NO, you are sorry, but you cannot help him.

I'm very blunt and this may not be the best advice.