Interpreting Social Group Dynamics

So, I'm backing away from this group for a while. I'll see if it will help me gain some insight and perspective.

JH called me with some regularity for a while, but hasn't since I suggested we debate online vs in person.

I was afraid I was going to have to block his phone number.

I think that this is quite a sensible goal:

"I would like to get to the place where I am centred, and nothing bothers me."

I call, within myself, this to be a sense of peace.

I hope you find this soon

My interest and study of stoicism is helping me with this goal. At it's heart is an emphasis on finding a way to flourish, and an absence of strong emotions. It's not a denial of strong feelings, just a refusal to act out when in the grips of emotion. Instead, the emotions are considered and their validity is questioned in a rational way.

To sum up, I was going to a group and I thought things were going pretty well, then another member of the group who had never even shown up to the physical meetings, called me and wanted to talk about some posts I'd been making to the yahoo groups page. He is the leader of another larger group, and said he was impressed by my posts, and that he wanted me to come speak in front of the larger group (for an hour!). At first, it was tempting, and then I realized that I have no experience, and no real desire to speak in front of that group, plus the leader JH, was pressuring me in ways that I found uncomfortable, and ignored my emails, so I turned him down. Then he wanted to debate me in public, I also turned that down, but suggested we debate some way online, instead. He never answered my request to debate him online.

I've been avoiding the group for a few weeks, but do plan on attending tonight. Thankfully, JH has stopped calling me.

It is understandable that you are suspicious of what this individual wants shakesphere. However, it could be that this individual was impressed with your input and may think you are more established with being able to handle being questioned and debated than you feel you are.

You have a right to establishing your own ideas about different things and not really care to have others to question and debate your POV in that kind of platform. Actually, "debating" like that is the hardest thing for presidential candidates to do. They "all" practice with a coach before doing a debate so they are not caught off guard and handle a debate poorly.

I suppose. My point is that I'm not a public speaker, and I don't really have much desire to become one, and yet he was pressuring me to speak publicly in front of his group, to such an extent that I was going to block his phone number so he couldn't keep calling me.

Ok, then take in the compliment yet stand your ground on not wanting to speak publically.
If you said "no thank you" and he did not respect that and is persistent, then by all means block him.

You have a right to "your boundaries" and if people don't respect that then you have a right to do what you need to do to disonnect further interaction with them.

Unfortunately, he (JH) is on his way to convincing me that he is disingenuous. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but it's not looking good.

yes this person bothering you should be avoided by you, he sounds a bit fishy, good luck

The group went pretty well last night. D? was back from France. He spends his winters in Paris. He's a quite older gentlmen.

R? rubs me the wrong way.
He's definitely a new atheist, one who is convinced that the world would be a better place without religion, and a follower of Matt Dilahunty, Dennett and Harris. He doesn't so much as argue that his position is true, or better, or useful, as much as he merely mocks those who disagree with him. I'd rather argue a position on it's merits, without stooping to ad hominems and personal attacks. So, it may be difficult to be around him.

It's ironic in that R? reminds me very much of my fundamentalist parents. He's even got a belief that is very similar to that of creationism, in that it denies the facts, and he believes it because the experts he trusts are assuring him it is the correct belief to hold. His reasoning is very similar to that of my YEC fundamentalist parents.

I felt an affinity with C? She does appear to be very genuine. What you see is what you get with her.

And NB is growing on me. She has some odd beliefs, but I like the fact that she fights for social justice. She is also very a very genuine person.

Well, this group thing is good for you in that you are observing others in a different light now. I think that what will help you is developing an inner ability to recognize individuals that you don't particularly like and may be a bit disengenuous as people that you will simply not take in their problems that they seem to need to push at others.

Truth is shakesphere, no one is going to be perfect and the ones you will probably enjoy being around are the ones that have developed a genuine ability to roll around with some flexibility verses being uptight with needing to be right or self righteous to the point where it's intrusive on others.

And realistically, no matter what the group, or who the person is, there is no reason for me to give them any more "power" than is deserved.

And it makes sense to think through and consider what kind of people they are before giving their opinions any weight.

Yes, that is good that you are sorting that out internally. It can be a challenge if one has spent a lenghty time around individuals that "intrude" on others and don't respect boundaries, especially when they are individuals who are dismissive when it comes to one's emotions.

I have been challenged in very similar ways you have in having others decide my feelings are not important and put me down for having them. I definitely get angry when another person does or says something hurtful to me and then wants me to just excuse their bad behavior. I don't like it when I see people do that to others either and typically will stand up for the other person when I see them being put down and disrespected. I don't like when people "gaslight" in that they say or do something hurtful and then blame the person they have hurt in some way. I have had that happen to me a lot in some pretty profound ways so I admit I tend to be sensitive, well I do have PTSD which is all about being "sensitive", more so than I care for.

So, it's good that you are working through these different challenges and noticing where "you" struggle and then working through slowly identifying and managing and setting boundaries with a sense that it's your right to do so.

There are some warning signs with this group. I was posting on the yahoo groups page, and getting some input, and then suddenly, the conversation on the page stops, and there are hints that it's deliberate. Like, "we don't like what you're saying, so, we're not going to respond".

I suppose it is their right. I'm doing essentially the same thing with people in real life, but, it's not something I particularly like in a group. They're also made it clear that they don't like conservative people, and I tend to be rather conservative, and they make (help) me feel defensive about that fact.

It doesn't matter what way a person leans politically, the individual is bound to get a negative reaction if they are having a discussion with others that may follow a different political party or even agree with "some" political ideology that is different from the group, or the majority in the group the response can be "silence".

You are not alone with that experience either. People can suddenly give you the "cold shoulder" even if you are a nice person if you aspouse different political beliefs then they do.

Personally, I don't like that response "either way" because some people really do get brainwashed and for myself, I like to have my own opinions on things and would rather not just agree to "follow along".

There is a lot of Hipocracy in Politics, even in religions too. It's ok to note it when one sees it, however, that is not all that popular as so many people like to "follow" along because it is easier then "thinking" and "being honest".

A recent conversation in our group lead me to say "I tend to be conservative, I'm probably the most conservative one here", to which someone replied "we've had conservative people here before, they didn't last long".

So, they're letting me know the tone of the group and where I stand.

Hmm, maybe but not always, it depends on how staunch a conservative. A person who is conservative leaning can actually be opened minded enough to hang in there in spite of some ideological differences.

I just found out that JH is coming to our house on the 4th. I invited a bunch of people back in May, and he was one who was invited. I kinda hoped he wouldn't show up, but he gave me his rsvp today.

This is a sticky area for me. I tend to give people 2nd, 3rd, 4th chances, and then later I feel like an idiot for continually putting myself into situations where I am mistreated by the people I dislike.

Anyway, I'm keeping my expectations low.

((shakesphere)), a lot of people do that, so don't be hard on yourself. Human beings are actually designed that way, when human beings encounter something that "bites/hurts" somehow, they tend to go back and learn more about it and by doing that learn how to navagate the wild even knowing whatever "bit and hurt" can be there and what to look for and how to navagate without being attacked.

Your biggest challenge is in how to set boundaries with people that rub you the wrong way in how you react towards them, yet also in how your feelings get hurt too. Remember what you learned in performing comedy? There is always a heckler, so learn ways ahead of time to react to them remember? Hecklers want to "disrupt and get others mad somehow" right? Reacting with a comedic tone and doing so externally and internally is one way to lighten up the situation. Robin Williams was genius at that. He managed to deflate situations getting the other individual to laugh "with" him, which drew a great deal of attention to him.

Our 4th of July party went pretty well. I had a really good time, except for most of my interactions with JH. I was right to be suspicious.

I suppose he probably means well, but most of the time when he talks, I just think to myself "it seems that way to him".

R? was there, too, and he continues to make it a point to let me know that he won't respond to my posts on our yahoo groups, but rather will pretend my posts don't exist.

I find him to be a sophist and good at rhetoric, in that he can make good arguments, but they aren't really all that plausible, but merely his assertions about how he views the world. I tend to mention peer-reviewed studies and reference what has been written about a topic, something that is hard to do in a face to face conversation.

Anyway, I find the way he talks in a face to face conversation to be disingenuous and down-putting, while he talks in a sweet "I wouldn't hurt a fly" voice and a smile on his face.

I suppose he must think he has good reasons to believe what he believes. I just wish he could express what those reasons are, instead of stating his beliefs like they are some kind of self-evident facts.

But, he is an interesting person, I'll give him that, and he brought my son a cool gift.

I just don't want R? thinking I buy into his beliefs.

I am glad to hear your picnic went well shakesphere. I think what can be a challenge for an individual who is conservative leaning in a group of individuals that favor the Liberal POV, is that conversations seem to need to boil down to the labels more than being open and listening and even respecting the other person's POV. That can be a challenge for you given your history with your father and brother who have treated you with disrespect, often invalidating you in hurtful ways too. I have found that "some" Liberals can be very condescending and while they claim to be "empathetic and fair" do not show it when they converse with anyone they think has a Conservative leaning. I realized that can trigger me because that is how I have been treated by my older sister who insists "she" is right and things "have to" get done the way "she" wants. It isn't so much an individuals POV as it is how a person decides they "have to challenge" others who don't see things the same way and mimic the unhealthy dysfunctional way the political arena is behaving. For a lot of people (myself included) it can trigger some dysfunctional ways they have been treated by their own family members. So what "is" the real challenge? And, does it really have to boil down to that kind of challenge?.

Haha the guy you describe sounds just like my mother's husband. He is a staunch liberal/democrat, but he does not focus on discussing problems and solutions nor does he seem to have any desire to solve anything. He is just extremely bitter and sarcastic and views other political ideologies as evil and stupid, and makes his perception crystal clear to just about everyone. If he met you, all he would need to hear is that you are a conservative, and he would immediately conclude that you are evil and stupid. He would then likely start taking jabs about Rush Limbaugh and act like he expects you to defend Rush, and also seem like he wants to physically fight you in the process, while maintaining a huge, angry-fake smile the entire time.

People like that don't really give a damn about politics, philosophy, solving problems, etc. I have met plenty of liberals in my life who were very respectful and wanted to have civil, respectful discussion/debate for the sake of striving towards solutions and understanding. Then there are people like my mother's husband and Mr R? who just seem to enjoy being ****lords. If you're politically neutral, then they'll find something else about you that means you're evil and stupid.