[TryingToMoveForward]

And maybe this is because I have a degree in sociology. But am I the only one that looks around, and sees the masses of mentally ill people in my country? As if...most people have a mental illness. Am I the only one asking what is WRONG with our society, that so many of us are struggling this way? Whether its BPD, depression or an anxiety disorder. Although many mental illnesses are chemical, many of them are not. Mental illness is as much a social problem as it is a physiological one. I remember reading a scholarly work by Durkheim about suicide, how its a social problem and not an individual one. Which is a very interesting take.

Maybe it really isn't just us? But everyone else too? Society?

Just some thoughts going through my head. Not specifically a BPD topic, but I don't believe BPD is caused by chemical imbalances or nature, but more by experiences with other people, parents in particular, growing up. Whereas bipolar is chemical, yet I believe people can be predisposed for it, and never develop it if there isn't a trigger. Just my thoughts from studying psychology in college and in my own spare time.

[Seraphine]

*standing ovation* thank you!!!!! I've been saying this for years!

[dancinglady]

Originally Posted by TryingToMoveForward

And maybe this is because I have a degree in sociology. But am I the only one that looks around, and sees the masses of mentally ill people in my country? As if...most people have a mental illness. Am I the only one asking what is WRONG with our society, that so many of us are struggling this way? Whether its BPD, depression or an anxiety disorder. Although many mental illnesses are chemical, many of them are not. Mental illness is as much a social problem as it is a physiological one. I remember reading a scholarly work by Durkheim about suicide, how its a social problem and not an individual one. Which is a very interesting take.

Maybe it really isn't just us? But everyone else too? Society?

Just some thoughts going through my head. Not specifically a BPD topic, but I don't believe BPD is caused by chemical imbalances or nature, but more by experiences with other people, parents in particular, growing up. Whereas bipolar is chemical, yet I believe people can be predisposed for it, and never develop it if there isn't a trigger. Just my thoughts from studying psychology in college and in my own spare time.

I have the same degree and I see what u see all day long. U r not the only one.

[here today]

Another no, you are not the only one. I see it that way, too, even though I have had PDNOS not BPD.

But what, if anything can we do? Can anybody do? Is there a vision of a society that would "work"? Is that a question we should be asking of our sociologists? But that's a political thing, too, and so not likely to get a lot of agreement there.

[TryingToMoveForward]

Marx proposed a social revolution to change society. But I would prefer something without bloodshed. Its not an easy question, and there aren't any real easy answers. The nature of capitalism is not conducive to a healthy society. Not that communism is either. Socialism might be a better medium in between the two, but its highly doubtful America would fully move in that direction and denounce the current system. Not in my life time anyway, though this isn't a true democracy and there are elements of socialism already present. There really isn't a perfect social system. Because the element of human bias and interests will never allow for a perfect society. However I think its possible to provide better care to people who have mental illnesses and to make small, gradual changes over time that will develop into a new, hybrid social-political system. Nothing stays the same indefinitely, and Obama has made progress into reforming how society takes care of itself. It will be interesting to see who gets elected next, and what course they will take.

But if any of you haven't read Durkheim or Marx I highly recommend it. Not to make anyone a communist, that isn't my intention (I am not a communist myself, but I don't condemn people who are). They both talk about the challenges of capitalism and society on the individual. And while Marx was published in the 1800s, much of what he said its applicable because the system itself hasn't changed all that much, but the worker's environments have. Somewhat. Depending on where you live in the world and what you do. When I worked in the factory I understand alienation from my product really well. I've lived through what Marx wrote, and understand how it all ties into psychology as well. If work makes you feel like a machine, when you're treated like a machine instead of a human being, you are alienated from your humanity and it does affect you mentally.

[DBTDiva]

Originally Posted by TryingToMoveForward

And maybe this is because I have a degree in sociology. But am I the only one that looks around, and sees the masses of mentally ill people in my country? As if...most people have a mental illness. Am I the only one asking what is WRONG with our society, that so many of us are struggling this way? Whether its BPD, depression or an anxiety disorder. Although many mental illnesses are chemical, many of them are not. Mental illness is as much a social problem as it is a physiological one. I remember reading a scholarly work by Durkheim about suicide, how its a social problem and not an individual one. Which is a very interesting take.

Maybe it really isn't just us? But everyone else too? Society?

Just some thoughts going through my head. Not specifically a BPD topic, but I don't believe BPD is caused by chemical imbalances or nature, but more by experiences with other people, parents in particular, growing up. Whereas bipolar is chemical, yet I believe people can be predisposed for it, and never develop it if there isn't a trigger. Just my thoughts from studying psychology in college and in my own spare time.

I don't think you're the only one, the statistics back up that most people will have a bout of diagnosable depression or anxiety at some point in their lifetime. 1 in 4 people in the US are in any given year, so that's 25% right there. People still don't talk about it openly because there's so much stigma.

I have always thought it wasn't a matter of nature vs nurture but nature AND nurture together for many things. I doubt there would be so much depression if there weren't so many dysfunctional families, just my opinion but it seems like nearly everone I know had some sort of abuse in childhood whether it was emotional, physical, sexual, etc.

[CopperStar]

I think the main issue is that no matter what type of system you have (capitalism, communism, socialism, etc) it is the responsibility of each individual citizen to be vigilant against corruption in their leadership and system. Because any system is vulnerable to corruption, and any system will have terrible results once corruption is widespread in the government/leadership.

In theory, almost any system can produce wonderful results, if there is no corruption, and in my observations, almost everyone championing a particular system, from capitalism to communism, speaks of their ideology within the assumed context that there is no corruption. I get the impression that most people find the idea far too daunting, of having most people be vigilant, brave and caring more about their community as a whole than their own personal gain. And I would agree that that is indeed a pretty daunting and perhaps overly idealistic goal.

So anyway I get the impression that a lot of people turn to concepts and champion those system concepts, because it feels more hopeful and comfortable, the idea that, "If we just used this system, then everything would be fine."

[TryingToMoveForward]

Originally Posted by DBTDiva

I don't think you're the only one, the statistics back up that most people will have a bout of diagnosable depression or anxiety at some point in their lifetime. 1 in 4 people in the US are in any given year, so that's 25% right there. People still don't talk about it openly because there's so much stigma.

I have always thought it wasn't a matter of nature vs nurture but nature AND nurture together for many things. I doubt there would be so much depression if there weren't so many dysfunctional families, just my opinion but it seems like nearly everone I know had some sort of abuse in childhood whether it was emotional, physical, sexual, etc.

Yes yes! The nature vs. nurture debate is an outdated one because nature effect nurture, and nurture affects nature. They're both so interrelated its impossible to separate the two.

[TryingToMoveForward]

Originally Posted by CopperStar

I think the main issue is that no matter what type of system you have (capitalism, communism, socialism, etc) it is the responsibility of each individual citizen to be vigilant against corruption in their leadership and system. Because any system is vulnerable to corruption, and any system will have terrible results once corruption is widespread in the government/leadership.

In theory, almost any system can produce wonderful results, if there is no corruption, and in my observations, almost everyone championing a particular system, from capitalism to communism, speaks of their ideology within the assumed context that there is no corruption. I get the impression that most people find the idea far too daunting, of having most people be vigilant, brave and caring more about their community as a whole than their own personal gain. And I would agree that that is indeed a pretty daunting and perhaps overly idealistic goal.

So anyway I get the impression that a lot of people turn to concepts and champion those system concepts, because it feels more hopeful and comfortable, the idea that, "If we just used this system, then everything would be fine."

That's the same conclusion I came to as well. Human corruption. There is no perfect system because there are no perfect humans. Sometimes I feel we put too much faith and power into those in power, when they cannot possibly live up to their words and beliefs. Humans are too complex. And I'm not faulting anyone here, because I'm the same way. Unstable, complicated, and complex. I think grassroots movements are a great counter to social problems, but they just don't have enough power or media coverage.

Thank you for this conversation though.

[YMIHere]

Originally Posted by TryingToMoveForward

That's the same conclusion I came to as well. Human corruption. There is no perfect system because there are no perfect humans. Sometimes I feel we put too much faith and power into those in power, when they cannot possibly live up to their words and beliefs. Humans are too complex. And I'm not faulting anyone here, because I'm the same way. Unstable, complicated, and complex. I think grassroots movements are a great counter to social problems, but they just don't have enough power or media coverage.

Thank you for this conversation though.

***Cue Bernie Sanders***

I do this thing with comparing myself and diagnosing others, lol.

When I was first diagnosed with ADHD my friend gave me a book called, "Hunter in a Gatherers World." Basically it's talking about how in dinosaur times, having ADHD would be a blessing. We are overly aware of our surroundings and that was a good thing. That's what kept people ALIVE. As we became farmers and then industrialists where you were expected to focus on one thing - sitting in a classroom all day - this became a disability. It really is all about perspective. I can usually see, "my people" a mile away. I mean the ADHD flighty, bouncing all over the place type. That's the diagnosis I feel the most aware of. I feel like you know someone well it's hard to know the fluctuations of their moods and how much they struggle.

My sister and I obviously have the same upbringing. She's 3 years younger than me so the traumas that we suffered we were at different stages of our lives (Dad died when I was in Junior High and she was in Elementary School). Then Mom went off the rails. It's funny that I had "stability" longer than she did, but she definitely handles things better than I do. I often treat her like she's the big sister. I've wondered how she's so together. I feel like it doesn't take much for me to lose it.

Getting back to society, it's intriguing when you stop to look. Me, I never looked as you have here too much. For me it's a matter of seeing how the cycle of poverty, criminality, etc. continues. That's why I like Bernie. He seems to actually CARE about our society and truly wants to make a difference.

[TryingToMoveForward]

Originally Posted by YMIHere

***Cue Bernie Sanders***

I do this thing with comparing myself and diagnosing others, lol.

When I was first diagnosed with ADHD my friend gave me a book called, "Hunter in a Gatherers World." Basically it's talking about how in dinosaur times, having ADHD would be a blessing. We are overly aware of our surroundings and that was a good thing. That's what kept people ALIVE. As we became farmers and then industrialists where you were expected to focus on one thing - sitting in a classroom all day - this became a disability. It really is all about perspective. I can usually see, "my people" a mile away. I mean the ADHD flighty, bouncing all over the place type. That's the diagnosis I feel the most aware of. I feel like you know someone well it's hard to know the fluctuations of their moods and how much they struggle.

My sister and I obviously have the same upbringing. She's 3 years younger than me so the traumas that we suffered we were at different stages of our lives (Dad died when I was in Junior High and she was in Elementary School). Then Mom went off the rails. It's funny that I had "stability" longer than she did, but she definitely handles things better than I do. I often treat her like she's the big sister. I've wondered how she's so together. I feel like it doesn't take much for me to lose it.

Getting back to society, it's intriguing when you stop to look. Me, I never looked as you have here too much. For me it's a matter of seeing how the cycle of poverty, criminality, etc. continues. That's why I like Bernie. He seems to actually CARE about our society and truly wants to make a difference.

My sister always handled things better too...until she....I don't know, certain things make her fly off the handle and explode. She just start slamming and punching things, then lash out verbally at whoever is closer. I on the other hand, just take things quietly and meekly, then go to my room and fall to pieces where no one can see it. My sister doesn't care if people see her lose it. I do. She is pretty screwed up, but everyone acts like she is perfect and I'm the defective one because I've been diagnosed and am in therapy. But getting into the favoritism isn't worth it.

Bernie Sanders sounds pretty legit. I like him.

[Seraphine]

I'm a weird combo of you and your sister, Ttmf! I'll bottle it up in public, but in private can be pushed tip lashing out and throwing things.

[TryingToMoveForward]

I rarely explode on other people. My mom is the only person, and she always definitely deserved it. I control my anger very well, and only lose my temper in private to punch the crap out of a soft object, like a couch or mattress. When enraged, I use to hurt myself, so I am very controlling of my anger to avoid self-harm.

[Seraphine]

Yeah I only let loose at people who really really push for it, like treat me like dirt for ages. Lately the only one I've really gotten mad at is my bf, and only when I've taken far more bs in the name of peace than most ppl ever would. But when I do let go, things get broken. He can't talk though. He breaks all kinds of stuff in his tantrums.

[TryingToMoveForward]

Originally Posted by Seraphine

Yeah I only let loose at people who really really push for it, like treat me like dirt for ages. Lately the only one I've really gotten mad at is my bf, and only when I've taken far more bs in the name of peace than most ppl ever would. But when I do let go, things get broken. He can't talk though. He breaks all kinds of stuff in his tantrums.

I've decided that I don't want to break the things I own. LOL They cost too much money and chances are I can't afford to replace them. So I beat on cushioned surfaces to prevent injury but also achieve that level of aggressive satisfaction. The only person I have ever blown up to was my mom. She was the abuser in my life, and she's always had a grudge against me because my dad treated me like I was precious. It made her jealous. I'm pretty certain she doesn't love me. But I basically told her everything I've wanted to say the past 15 years. She denies abusing me, but I have PTSD as evidence for it. At this point I'm okay with her not loving me. She has never been the mom I need, and she never will be.

[Seraphine]

About things you own, precisely! Instead, I throw drink bottles usually. Or slap the bf. Or something I can afford to destroy for various reasons. Last one was a tablet that decided to stop working.

[YMIHere]

Originally Posted by TryingToMoveForward

I've decided that I don't want to break the things I own. LOL They cost too much money and chances are I can't afford to replace them. So I beat on cushioned surfaces to prevent injury but also achieve that level of aggressive satisfaction. The only person I have ever blown up to was my mom. She was the abuser in my life, and she's always had a grudge against me because my dad treated me like I was precious. It made her jealous. I'm pretty certain she doesn't love me. But I basically told her everything I've wanted to say the past 15 years. She denies abusing me, but I have PTSD as evidence for it. At this point I'm okay with her not loving me. She has never been the mom I need, and she never will be.

I can't tell you how many times I wished we had a heavy bag in the house. I've never broken anything - my tirades are usually just verbal. But there were so many times I could FEEL it boiling over and I just wished it was there to really lay into.

About moms.....

My mother was effed up. When I started therapy my therapist gave me this questionnaire about my childhood and it asked me to list 5 words that describe my relationship with my mother. The first 3 came easy and they were all bad. I think that one thing that I learned from therapy so far is that my childhood was pretty effed up. I wasn't BEATEN. I wasn't even really verbally abused. But I was definitely manipulated and neglected. One of the first words that came was violated. I used to keep a journal RELIGIOUSLY. I poured my heart and soul into that thing. She read it and the crazy thing is she couldn't keep her mouth shut about it.

When I was like 12 I'd written about the fact that my aunt and grandmother were coming over and how I wasn't looking forward to it b/c I didn't like either one of them. She was like, "So you don't like Nanny and Aunt Patsy?" But the icing on the cake is I was in a BAD situation and I wasn't sure how I was going to handle it. I got away to my best friends house out of state for a few days and my mom read my diary. You would think that's enough right? No, she didn't like what she saw (it had to do w/ my then boyfriend) and she told the WHOLE FAMILY ABOUT IT! I'm glad I had an ounce of sanity left b/c when I found out I imagined laying all the diaries around her while she slept and burning her in bed with them. I actually sat there wondering if I could plead insanity if I was getting my son and baby sister out of the house.

And here's the thing - even without therapy my sister was able to be compassionate. The short story is Mom went off the rails when Dad died. My sister was YOUNG - 19? Early 20s, when she said to me, "She lost the love of her life. I don't know if I could have handled it any better."

What's crazier still is for all of this, I'm pretty sure I was still Mom's favorite. We got a lot closer when I moved 1200 miles away. I'm glad I had that b/c she passed last year.

[Unrigged64072835]

I write in a journal now when I get angry. It's on my computer which is password protected. I've been angry a lot this past year and I've punched pillows, cussed to myself, all that stuff. It's managed to keep me from blowing up on my husband and daughter so I'll keep up with that.

My parents were pretty screwed up. My dad was abusive physically and emotionally, and my mom was an alcoholic who didn't want to be a mom. Since they're both dead I'm working even harder to get their influence out of my life. Thankfully I have a t who helps with that.

[sdf9526]

Originally Posted by TryingToMoveForward

And maybe this is because I have a degree in sociology. But am I the only one that looks around, and sees the masses of mentally ill people in my country? As if...most people have a mental illness. Am I the only one asking what is WRONG with our society, that so many of us are struggling this way? Whether its BPD, depression or an anxiety disorder. Although many mental illnesses are chemical, many of them are not. Mental illness is as much a social problem as it is a physiological one. I remember reading a scholarly work by Durkheim about suicide, how its a social problem and not an individual one. Which is a very interesting take.

Maybe it really isn't just us? But everyone else too? Society?

Just some thoughts going through my head. Not specifically a BPD topic, but I don't believe BPD is caused by chemical imbalances or nature, but more by experiences with other people, parents in particular, growing up. Whereas bipolar is chemical, yet I believe people can be predisposed for it, and never develop it if there isn't a trigger. Just my thoughts from studying psychology in college and in my own spare time.

I've noticed this and the first thoughts that came to my mind were that I think it's because we live in a world with so many people, humans dominate the earth and affect each other a lot and as a result of so many humans, there is a lot of abuse which can cause a lot of issues in people.