How can members respecfully have disagreements and when does it become a violation?

[sabby]

As long as disagreements are discussed respectfully and members don't post unsupportively towards another member who is in disagreement with them, it's fine. Anything other than that may be outside of guidelines for being supportive and not flaming.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/rules...-8-2014-a.html

So, discussing politics, if done respectfully, is okay?

[DocJohn]

Not really. Our guidelines specify you should avoid discussions of any politics or religion, because people hold strong opinions on them (and this isn't a political or religious community -- it's here for mental health support). So you should avoid political discussions anywhere except in the Current Events forum, where respectful political discourse is allowed.

Originally Posted by DocJohn

Not really. Our guidelines specify you should avoid discussions of any politics or religion, because people hold strong opinions on them (and this isn't a political or religious community -- it's here for mental health support). So you should avoid political discussions anywhere except in the Current Events forum, where respectful political discourse is allowed.

i'm a little confused about the no religion talk

seeing as their is both a spiritual forum, and their is a social group @jesus's feet (which I'm a member of)

certain asspects of religion, I guess are allowed?. or why have those sections

Originally Posted by DocJohn

Not really. Our guidelines specify you should avoid discussions of any politics or religion, because people hold strong opinions on them (and this isn't a political or religious community -- it's here for mental health support). So you should avoid political discussions anywhere except in the Current Events forum, where respectful political discourse is allowed.

I mean in chat, because it always happens there

[venusss]

Originally Posted by DocJohn

Not really. Our guidelines specify you should avoid discussions of any politics or religion, because people hold strong opinions on them (and this isn't a political or religious community -- it's here for mental health support). So you should avoid political discussions anywhere except in the Current Events forum, where respectful political discourse is allowed.

what if one is triggered or badly affected by political situation in their region? Should we pretend a bear broke into my neighbor's yard (completelly destroying his pool and free time area and vineyard) and I have serious bearophobia and then somebody said something mean to me when I tried to help the neighbor and now I am having nightmares about it?

[DocJohn]

The word "avoid" doesn't mean "absolutely no talk." It means if everyone is respectful of the fact these are strongly held beliefs, there's little reason to engage much in these discussions since you won't change other people's minds (and you may anger other members needlessly).

Of course, we have exceptions. Social groups are member created groups and have greater freedom with religious and political discussions. Current Events forum allows political discussions. The Spirituality forum is for spiritual discussions -- not religion. There's a significant and important difference there.

We are in the midst of a heated presidential election in the country our site is based in, so yes, some political discussion is to be expected in chat in the Coffehouse room. It would be weird if that wasn't happening once in awhile...

Having said all that, we are first and foremost a mental health support group community. You shouldn't be here to argue or really discuss politics or religion.... You should be here for emotional support. We offer these options because we know it is human nature to want to discuss some of these things. But if you're looking for in-depth political or religious discussion, we suggest you seek out a religious or political forum community to have such discussions.

[venusss]

Thank you for your answer.

I am not here to discuss politics of my region, because to be honest, I have enough of explaining the very basic concepts to people on regular basis... (like basic geography and modern history...). However, being highly involved influenced.

I know this is side based in the USA, but there is world outside and parts of it have huge problems. Which influence our psyches. And if you have whole society traumatized, it is pretty hard and messed up situation.

[emwell]

Originally Posted by DocJohn

The Spirituality forum is for spiritual discussions -- not religion. There's a significant and important difference there.

I just had to copy this as it is the best sentence I have read in a very long time. I have had wonderful spiritual conversations with people of different faiths. We have learned from each other.

Too many people are not able to see the difference between spirituality and religion so most of these conversations have needed to be private.

[here today]

Several of us in Personality Place have been wondering if it would be possible to have an "honest feedback", "tell it like it is", or "no filter" forum for us to explore how we come off to other people. Kind of like politics are allowed to be discussed in the Current Events forum. We've had some personality discussions in the past and they can sometimes get very heated! But also helpful in the long run.

Perhaps this could be social group that people would have to sign up to join, the general PC guidelines could be relaxed there, and people would know what they were getting into if they wanted to join.

What do you moderators think?

[DocJohn]

Thank you for the suggestion.

I don't think such a forum would result in positive change for people, however, and instead devolve into a place where insults would be traded in guise of "honesty." We pride ourselves on being a safe and supportive community; this would not seem in keeping with our core mission.

I think one could already tell someone the truth of how they come across compassionately and with thoughtfulness in private, in PM. I don't see the value in making such calls in public. Sorry.

DocJohn

[here today]

I understand your point of view, but it really is sometimes NOT possible for some of us to tell the truth of how others come across compassionately and thoughtfully. And I personally do not want that in private, I want it in a safe, "public" space with other people where I can consider the other person's point of view and "take what I want and leave the rest". In a one-on-one situation I would simply feel shamed and like I had to accede to the other person's point of view or lose the relationship, even if we didn't have much of one. Maybe lose their positive regard would be another way of putting it. To experience that "in public" has helped me get over some sensitivity to shame, maybe. It's very hard to describe but I think it's well-acknowledged that people with personality disorders are "different" -- I believe that it's more possible for us to "change" than is realized today, perhaps because the kind of help that we need for that is not "normal".

People are different, their temperaments are different, and how we have developed and been socialized is different. Especially if PC had it set up in a special forum or social group where people had to acknowledge the risks -- perhaps you could enumerate the ones you can think of -- then it might work? Don't you think it might be worth an experiment for some of us in this particular population (people with personality disorders)?

I believe there is already some good "evidence", or at least suggestive examples, of how this has worked for positive change in the NPD forum and some in the non-specific general Personality Place forum as well if you want to take a look at that.

[IchbinkeinTeufel]

Although I appreciate the desire to be straight with people, I agree with John here, HT. It's pretty much what I was thinking once I read your post.

If you really feel that form of communication is necessary, perhaps it could be taken to an alternative place. I honestly don't think it's necessary though. Personally, if I feel the need to tell somebody something and can't be thoughtful and/or compassionate about it, then it's probably best left unsaid.

I think the forum wouldn't be all that safe as a result of being left unfiltered.

You say you want to be in a public place in which you can take a person's point of view into consideration, but you don't need one forum for that, or even anything specific. You can do that anywhere—I'm taking your view into consideration right now, and I'm being honest as well.

I think there may lie a deeper issue here with regards to how you feel about communication with people, as one might infer from the part regarding acceeding to people.

Please understand that you typically never have to comply with someone's view. If you've been given new information that has shown you a different way of thinking to which you can then move, then that's okay. However, just because an individual has an opinion that you two don't share, doesn't mean you're therefore obliged to change your views or pretend you agree with them. Our differences, in my opinion, are part of what make us so vibrant as a species.

[here today]

Originally Posted by IchbinkeinTeufel

Although I appreciate the desire to be straight with people, I agree with John here, HT. It's pretty much what I was thinking once I read your post.

If you really feel that form of communication is necessary, perhaps it could be taken to an alternative place. I honestly don't think it's necessary though. Personally, if I feel the need to tell somebody something and can't be thoughtful and/or compassionate about it, then it's probably best left unsaid.

I think the forum wouldn't be all that safe as a result of being left unfiltered.

You say you want to be in a public place in which you can take a person's point of view into consideration, but you don't need one forum for that, or even anything specific. You can do that anywhere—I'm taking your view into consideration right now, and I'm being honest as well.

I think there may lie a deeper issue here with regards to how you feel about communication with people, as one might infer from the part regarding acceeding to people.

Please understand that you typically never have to comply with someone's view. If you've been given new information that has shown you a different way of thinking to which you can then move, then that's okay. However, just because an individual has an opinion that you two don't share, doesn't mean you're therefore obliged to change your views or pretend you agree with them. Our differences, in my opinion, are part of what make us so vibrant as a species.

Thanks for your post and point of view.

I've written this in other places on PC but I'll repeat it here. I've been in and out of therapy for more than 50 years, for 17 years almost continuously since my late husband died and for 6 years most recently with a specialist in trauma and dissociation. While the last therapist helped a lot with the trauma issues, she was not able to help with personality disorder issues ("not otherwise specified", none of the specific ones).

Lots of reasons why that may have been the case -- maybe partly because of how long the trauma went with effective treatment.

The point is, I and some other people diagnosed with personality disorders, posting in the Personality Place forum agree that we would like a "tell it like it is" forum or perhaps a social group that people have to join. We are people who acknowledge that we have problems getting along in the world and with other people. But, after that, it's not so simple. I think lots of folks would agree that people WITH personality disorders and those without process things differently. Problem is, we have to START with where we are. PC certainly doesn't have to agree to my/our request. But, so far, the fact that several people with different personality disorders have formed what seems at this point to be a functioning alliance toward better mental health is an enormous plus for PC. So, I would ask again that you consider the request in that light.

For me, for example, in my social relationships I have tended toward the ability to be "all about you" or "all about me". What you have written that I "Please understand" is something I can certainly understand intellectually, detached from my emotions. But that's not the same as understanding in a social situation where I do have emotions. And for that, I feel that I need practice in a safe place. Looked and looked in the real world, doesn't exist there, either. Because of the anonymity of PC it feels safer to me than the real world.

[sabby]

As a member and admin, I don't think that having a forum for "telling it like it is" for those with PD's is in tune with mission of our site. Our Community Guidelines state the following:

Inappropriate Content

This is, first and foremost, a self-help support community. That means if your message (post or PM) isn't about offering support to another person or asking for it, it's potentially not appropriate for our community.

I understand what you are asking for here today, but I don't see how it could remain within our guidelines. There is nothing that states one cannot be honest with one another as things stand now. It's all in the delivery of the message if it stands with our guidelines or not.

Take care!

[here today]

Thanks, sabby. But I'm glad I had the opportunity to ask. Self-help for people who don't, by definition of their mental disorders, fit in the to the norm need a different kind of help than what we are currently getting, in my opinion. And/or a different kind of self-help. So far, I think PC has provided a place where some of us can begin to discuss that. I'm thankful for that.

Would you be able to start a social group?

I admit that I do not frequent the forum you frequent as it's not part of my diagnosis, I just happen to see this at the top of the page...so my feeling will no probably align with others.

The point I'm making badly is that there ARE social groups that I, personally, "don't see the value in"...and that I just might find offensive and may potentially be the source of disagreements. I simply don't join or read.

I don't see why those that want to, shouldn't be allowed to make a social group. just like the others.

[sabby]

A social group may work but I must remind you that social groups are still upheld to the Community Guidelines.

[Takeshi]

HI, I think Anna's satisfied with the answers she's gotten. I'd like to pick someone's brain about here today's post/request, and I'm asking the views from non administrative side.

Forums Mission Statement

The purpose of the Forums at Psych Central is simple -- it's a small community devoted to support for mental health and relationship issues. In that vein, you should be civil and treat others as you expect to be treated here.

Appropriate Content

This is, first and foremost, a self-help support community. That means if your message (post or PM) is about offering support to another person or asking for it, it's potentially appropriate for our community.

I edited the second quote a bit, please note that. The mission is the purpose and the purpose is what this community is and it is small, and devoting itself to mental health. What we members here do though is offering help and support through communicating with each other, and this is not like general population reading things about heart health or oral health on the internet, by that I mean many member's mental health on PC are quite bad to start with, and they may be looking for help/informations.

I understand that saying to provide support the way it is what we offer, take what you get and there's limit to what we can do from admin sides, I've just got the impression like are we not safe without the guideline? We are not talking about the safety of workplace equipments, it'd be more difficult to measure the safety of human beings. Forum members here are not this unspecified mental health, but the line seems a bit blurry when I read the above two quoted lines, I hope you're following me, think what we post here and go back up to the mission statement, because that's what this forum is and what the admins want this place to be.

I just wanna know what others think.

Before I post this, I wanna mention few unpopular possibly unrelated subjects.

One, regarding the support for mental health. I can't certainly support everything about it, such as botched drug trials shown in the case of Markingson and the CAFÉ study, or possibly dangerous effects of psychotropics some doctors talk about. The core mission might be telling me that it is for (neutral) mental health. It just sounds weird to me so let me know what you think.

Two, psychoanalyzing another member when one wasn't asking for it seemed rude to me. I'm talking about the one on this thread, if you don't see it, then that's that.

It's all in the delivery of the message if it stands with our guidelines or not.

True to some extent, but I know it's more to do with moderator's discretion, because the deliverer can not decide if it meets the guidelines or not as a final judgement, plus future is always uncertain.

Does the guideline make me an honest person? DOUBTFUL!

Hey, I have no ill intent or I'm taking anybody's sides here, just be honest with me and comment if you feel so...flipped out about this thread like I do.

ETA: I know two members on this thread and they are honest. As for others? “Insufficient data for meaningful answer. ” So please don't kid yourself about being honest.

[lizardlady]

Could an admin or mod please explain the difference between spiritual talk and religious talk? I know how I define each, but find the difference here confusing.

[BeaFlower]

Originally Posted by lizardlady

Could an admin or mod please explain the difference between spiritual talk and religious talk? I know how I define each, but find the difference here confusing.

I'd like to understand it better too.

[Hope 51]

Originally Posted by lizardlady

Could an admin or mod please explain the difference between spiritual talk and religious talk? I know how I define each, but find the difference here confusing.

I concur. Thank you in advance for explaining the differences.

[Artchic528]

As an answer to the difference between Spirituality and Religion, here is what DocJohn said regarding what can and can't be posted about in the Spirituality Forum.

http://forums.psychcentral.com/sanct...alk-forum.html

He basically says NOT to post discussions about specific religions, religious doctrine, religious texts, religious figures, or religious instatutions.

Also, here is what I found on Google:

"Religion usually entails adhering to a certain dogma or belief system. Spirituality places little importance on intellectual beliefs, but is concerned with growing into and experiencing the Divine consciousness."

Hope that helps.

[seesaw]

Hmm, the divine consciousness..I like that phrase.