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  #1  
Old Jan 04, 2017, 10:34 PM
babkababy babkababy is offline
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I read that the victims sometimes mistreat their rescuer/caregiver, while sympathizing with their enemy/abuser. Does anyone know what the process is for changing this thought pattern?
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  #2  
Old Jan 05, 2017, 06:21 AM
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Parva Parva is offline
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To get off topic just a bit - my sense has been that we retreat to comfortable places. Comfortable does not mean safe, healthy, or painless, it means places we understand and find predictable. And sometimes that means 'sympathizing with their enemy/abuser'. I think we can reject caregivers (1) because they are pulling us into unfamiliar and what we perceive as unsafe, places (ironic...), and (2) the further we move along in, e.g., T, the sooner we will be parted with the T, so it creates fear and resistance.

I think the process just takes time and trust. Having the abuser out of the equation is important since the person will collaborate with you to pull you back in (?). Get caught in a kind of tug-of-war. I think the process is different if your abuse was in the past than if you're dealing with a current abusive situation.

Those are just my thoughts. I'd be really interested to hear what others think.
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  #3  
Old Jan 05, 2017, 08:57 AM
babkababy babkababy is offline
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Caution possible trigger!!!

Thank you Parva, in this particular setting the sexual abuser was an older brother, whom she forgave. That is a beautiful thing but the brother now has burned his brain on drugs. The sisters and she try to take care of him. She is verbally cruel to her husband, who never abuses or says harsh words. She wants to throw her husband away yet will not show the same kindness and understanding for the abusive brother towards her husband.
  #4  
Old Jan 05, 2017, 09:03 AM
babkababy babkababy is offline
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Parva, that was a beautifully written response. Yes ironic that what truly is a safe place she is pushing away, makes sense why she is trying to go back to what was familiar to her before she moved to our town.
  #5  
Old Jan 05, 2017, 01:51 PM
xenos xenos is offline
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I agree with Parva that not every "safe" situation we perceive is not actually safe, rather than a predictable situation in which we know very well how to behave. Unpredictable situations will cause arousal and drive us from our comfort zone.

Sympathizing with the abuser, I guess and from what I read previously, means that the abused has identified so much with the abuser. It makes us in a way give "excuse" to the abuser for his actions because we identified with him so much. This will turns the self against the self because we will perceive ourselves as the only culprits in what had happened to us. The shame will be directed towards ourselves and we will suffer immensely.

Other reasons I guess, is the concept of reenactments. we reenact past situations as a way to master them, or because we developed rudimentary defense strategies that no longer work in our adult life.

I attached a paper that talks at lengths about the reenactments. Hope it can help everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parva View Post
To get off topic just a bit - my sense has been that we retreat to comfortable places. Comfortable does not mean safe, healthy, or painless, it means places we understand and find predictable. And sometimes that means 'sympathizing with their enemy/abuser'. I think we can reject caregivers (1) because they are pulling us into unfamiliar and what we perceive as unsafe, places (ironic...), and (2) the further we move along in, e.g., T, the sooner we will be parted with the T, so it creates fear and resistance.

I think the process just takes time and trust. Having the abuser out of the equation is important since the person will collaborate with you to pull you back in (?). Get caught in a kind of tug-of-war. I think the process is different if your abuse was in the past than if you're dealing with a current abusive situation.

Those are just my thoughts. I'd be really interested to hear what others think.
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File Type: pdf Understanding Reenactments.pdf (51.4 KB, 5 views)
Thanks for this!
Trace14
  #6  
Old Jan 05, 2017, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by babkababy View Post
Caution possible trigger!!!

Thank you Parva, in this particular setting the sexual abuser was an older brother, whom she forgave. That is a beautiful thing but the brother now has burned his brain on drugs. The sisters and she try to take care of him. She is verbally cruel to her husband, who never abuses or says harsh words. She wants to throw her husband away yet will not show the same kindness and understanding for the abusive brother towards her husband.
I think Parva did nail some important things. It also sounds to me like this woman has a lot of confusion between what is love and what is abuse. Some abusers tell their victim the abuse "is" love. It also sounds from what you have shared is that this woman doesn't feel she deserves to be loved in a "healthy" way. She is mean to her husband because she is trying to show him how unworthy of love she is. Real "love" terrifies her and that is why she is being so mean. She is nice to her brother because he doesn't have the same kind of threat to her as her husband does.

It sounds like this woman has more than complex PTSD, could also have borderline personality disorder.

I am sorry for the husband, he must be at such a loss with this. Is the husband reaching out for help/therapy?
  #7  
Old Jan 05, 2017, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post
I think Parva did nail some important things. It also sounds to me like this woman has a lot of confusion between what is love and what is abuse. Some abusers tell their victim the abuse "is" love. It also sounds from what you have shared is that this woman doesn't feel she deserves to be loved in a "healthy" way. She is mean to her husband because she is trying to show him how unworthy of love she is. Real "love" terrifies her and that is why she is being so mean. She is nice to her brother because he doesn't have the same kind of threat to her as her husband does.

It sounds like this woman has more than complex PTSD, could also have borderline personality disorder.

I am sorry for the husband, he must be at such a loss with this. Is the husband reaching out for help/therapy?
Open Eyes, thank you. Your answer is what I was hoping for when asking so many questions. I was reading something else today where pd came up and I'm starting to wonder about this myself. I haven't studied pd yet.

The husband has a lot of support from his parents, who are trained for counseling other types of situations. He has worked for a children's shelter and also had training in CT but at a child's level, not an adult. This training took place shortly after they married. None of us realized that she had CT until a week ago. We did not realize what it all entailed at an adult level with no therapy as a child or adolescent as some children will receive in a shelter here or foster/adopt care. We just thought we were receiving her from an abusive home and was a little immature. We realized there would be some issues but had no idea the depth of her brokenness. She is very good at telling you what you want to hear.

The husband is not presently in therapy but the family are reading good CT books and asking for advice from those with experience. The goal at this stage is assisting her to the safe/stability phase and wait for her to ask for therapy and enter the 2nd phase of healing. We do have a physiologist who is just waiting for our call but not until she asks for help, no coaxing from anyone for her to get therapy. She knows she is receiving assistance for the first phase so everyone is more comfortable.

This morning she asked her husband his opinion. Would it be better if she left he and the baby and moved out alone? Her husband said no, the baby would miss her too much. I asked what she was wanting to do alone? He said, travel the world.

I asked to watch the baby today and she was alright with that. She wasn't feeling well. When her husband called and found out she wasn't feeling well, he said she was grumpy. He asked very kindly if he could bring her something to eat? She wanted fruit and to eat vegan. I cut up fresh watermelon, sent a pretty gift bag with 2 containers of cut up watermelon, lime, sweet peas, dates, almonds, raw honey and anis tea. I had also offered her some fish and quinoa for dinner this evening. She sent me voice message thanking me for the watermelon and peas and said she had to run an errand, didn't know what time she'd be back but the fish sure sounded good. She said she'd like to have some. So I expect to see her shortly.
  #8  
Old Jan 05, 2017, 08:47 PM
babkababy babkababy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xenos View Post
I agree with Parva that not every "safe" situation we perceive is not actually safe, rather than a predictable situation in which we know very well how to behave. Unpredictable situations will cause arousal and drive us from our comfort zone.

Sympathizing with the abuser, I guess and from what I read previously, means that the abused has identified so much with the abuser. It makes us in a way give "excuse" to the abuser for his actions because we identified with him so much. This will turns the self against the self because we will perceive ourselves as the only culprits in what had happened to us. The shame will be directed towards ourselves and we will suffer immensely.

Other reasons I guess, is the concept of reenactments. we reenact past situations as a way to master them, or because we developed rudimentary defense strategies that no longer work in our adult life.

I attached a paper that talks at lengths about the reenactments. Hope it can help everyone.
This is a little hard for me to understand. Are you say not every safe situation is actually safe? A safe situation could be uncomfortable because you're not sure what to expect so this causes stress?

This makes sense because I know we do things very structured. I notice that she has a very difficult time doing things on time. Which I can understand, if one doesn't feel well, who wants to run their life by a clock?
  #9  
Old Jan 05, 2017, 11:46 PM
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Open Eyes Open Eyes is offline
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This makes sense because I know we do things very structured. I notice that she has a very difficult time doing things on time. Which I can understand, if one doesn't feel well, who wants to run their life by a clock?
She most likely doesn't have a true life clock. Often with CT, the sufferer loses track of time.

Quote:
She is very good at telling you what you want to hear.
It's how she manipulates to maintain control.
  #10  
Old Jan 06, 2017, 12:32 PM
babkababy babkababy is offline
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Originally Posted by Open Eyes View Post






It's how she manipulates to maintain control.

How does the family work around this behavior?
  #11  
Old Jan 06, 2017, 02:03 PM
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Open Eyes Open Eyes is offline
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From what you have shared of her behaviors it sounds like you are dealing with a child inside a young woman's body. I have shared my thoughts in our PM's but I did not want to leave your question unanswered on the board.

Complex PTSD is not just a one size fits all. There can be other challenges involved as I have mentioned. I think what she is trying to say is "I am too little to handle all this adult responsibility of knowing how to be a wife and a mother".

Last edited by Open Eyes; Jan 06, 2017 at 02:16 PM.
  #12  
Old Jan 11, 2017, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by babkababy View Post
I read that the victims sometimes mistreat their rescuer/caregiver, while sympathizing with their enemy/abuser. Does anyone know what the process is for changing this thought pattern?
This is called "Stockholm Syndrome."

See: Stockholm syndrome | definition of Stockholm syndrome by Medical dictionary
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