I think life is too hard to be lived. Suffering is everywhere and at all levels. We help continuing humanity's suffering in this life through our children. I think bringing children to this life is a huge mistake. But we bring them to find a reason to live for. But this means they will suffer, and the cycle continues. I feel I was brought to this life as if I was put in prison against my will. This is how I feel about life. It's a disturbing view, yet I cannot but find it to be so true. I think most people deny it by indulging in many distractions, but for me because I live alone, I have no distractions but my own internal thoughts. I wish I haven't been, that would have been much better for me and for others.

[gayleggg]

Sometimes I wish I hadn't be born, but I was such a joy to my mother, grandmother, grandfather that I feel it was worth it. That's all I want to do is bring joy to people I love and that love me.

[MickeyCheeky]

I feel your pain.

[Yours_Truly]

I hear you Lonely Warrior, sometimes I feel I just don't have what it takes to live life.

gaylegg, what a lovely thought. I never thought of it before, how much of a joy I was for my mother. God, she loved me.

[Thunder Bow]

Lonely Warrior, Why not be a Warrior and accept life's challanges. Have the pride of a Warrior.

You can be warrior and have all the pride you want, eventually you will die with most of your years in suffering, and be forgotten for ever. Of course we have no other options but to be warriors, but still ... this doesn't mean life is worth the continuation in my opinion through procreation.

I've just recently been introduced to the anti-natalism philosophy, but I have held this view way before I knew anything about it, and I was a bit relieved to know that there are other people who think the same way, although they are minority. But again, I think most people don't think about these things and questions because they are painful to reflect on. We look for a hope or a reason to continue until death takes over our power and minds.

Yes our parents loved us and are/were happy of us, but what about us and our feelings? Is it necessary to bring someone else to suffer to make us happy because we are suffering?

I personally suffered a lot, mentally, and I wouldn't wish any one else to suffer the same.

Suffering in life is simply inevitable.

[Artchic528]

Originally Posted by Lonely Warrior

I think life is too hard to be lived. Suffering is everywhere and at all levels. We help continuing humanity's suffering in this life through our children. I think bringing children to this life is a huge mistake. But we bring them to find a reason to live for. But this means they will suffer, and the cycle continues. I feel I was brought to this life as if I was put in prison against my will. This is how I feel about life. It's a disturbing view, yet I cannot but find it to be so true. I think most people deny it by indulging in many distractions, but for me because I live alone, I have no distractions but my own internal thoughts. I wish I haven't been, that would have been much better for me and for others.

I think that you have a very single minded (not to mention misguided) outlook on life, no offense. Life isn't about suffering at all. To live life fully is to truly be free. To live in misery only begets more misery. Essentially, you get out of life what you put into it. You need to put some positive energy into your daily routine. Negative thoughts don't serve anyone any good.

What do you mean by "life is about to be truly free"? Why do we procreate? Do parents think that we will bring our children to be free? and free from what? All religions and most philosophies try to instill hope by various means and by saying silly things like after death life, or give life meanings other than what it really is, like what you are saying.

Do you think people choose to live in misery? We have no option but to be hopeful and positive as much as we can, but this is just an illusion to keep us going a little longer with the least suffering possible. But why to exist and suffer is better than non existence? Most of us fall to our instincts to procreate, because we are basically animals, no better than a bonobo or a rat, just a little more complex.

[Artchic528]

I believe what you're doing right now is what is known as "Negative Reinforcement". You're reinforcing your negativity by constantly thinking of negative thoughts and outcomes/outlooks. Like I said, try injecting positive thoughts into your daily life.

Is this your general outlook on life or has it changes as you gotten older?

Are you depressed?

I felt like you, when I was younger. Very nihilist.

I think spending a lot of time alone (literally) in the past few years is what has made me think about these things. Before that I think I was distracted by family and friends. Am I depressed? I don't know, maybe, I haven't been diagnosed, but this doesn't make my points invalid.

[Reao]

“Man is by nature a social animal; an individual who is unsocial naturally and not accidentally is either beneath our notice or more than human. Society is something that precedes the individual. Anyone who either cannot lead the common life or is so self-sufficient as not to need to, and therefore does not partake of society, is either a beast or a god. ” ~Aristotle, Politics

Life is difficult. Change is a constant. Without the skills, resilience and inclination to step away from the misery you speak of, you must benefit somehow from what you imply is a consternation.

“Nobody enjoys the company of others as intensely as someone who usually avoids the company of others.” ― Mokokoma Mokhonoana

I learned the hard way.

I live alone and have many issues, but this doesn't mean I'm not trying to get out of my misery, but it's not easy. You are quoting some who lived more than 2000 years who is saying anyone who cannot live normally is a "beast"!! Why should I take this as a truth? I don't. Also, I didn't say that I'm not the problem. But again, I'm trying and hoping. The thread is about why do we procreate? "Common life" includes from many things to get married and have children. But why should I conform to this? and why if I don't then I'm a beast or abnormal?

[MtnTime2896]

For my own reasons I will never have a kid. I understand the mindset you're describing. That being said, I don't mind others wanting to have children as long as they truly want them. I mean, it's very simply natural selection and primitive human nature to reproduce. So, for a couple to truly want a child, it's something special in my eyes.
I can't stand people having children for any other reason; whether it be "accident", feel morally obligated (which can be good but it can also be bad), or have a child to save a marriage. That's where I have a problem with it.
But the couples who are loving and have themselves together before they have a kid and then dedicate their livelyhood to their children, I believe they deserve it. I also believe it's a really special thing. Good for them.

Specifying "accident", I'm not talking about a normal circumstance. I'm talking about a toxic one that will hurt the kid in the end. (I'm kind of one of those kids)

[MtnTime2896]

For my own reasons I will never have a kid. I understand the mindset you're describing. That being said, I don't mind others wanting to have children as long as they truly want them. I mean, it's very simply natural selection and primitive human nature to reproduce. So, for a couple to truly want a child, it's something special in my eyes.
I can't stand people having children for any other reason; whether it be "accident", feel morally obligated (which can be good but it can also be bad), or have a child to save a marriage. That's where I have a problem with it.
But the couples who are loving and have themselves together before they have a kid and then dedicate their livelyhood to their children, I believe they deserve it. I also believe it's a really special thing. Good for them.

I agree with you about the condition of the parents before having children, but do you think this will prevent misery from the children's life? It might reduce it, but not eliminating it. Misery is a huge part of life, and "those who don't cry, don't see" as Victor Hugo said.

Parents may have children for many reasons, but for sure one of them is not the benefit of the child. Because what benefits are they for the child to exist in the first place rather than non existing? I can say most if not all the reasons of having a child is for the benefits of the parents themselves not the children. They make them feel happy, they give them social and financial support when they grow up while parents are old, ... etc.

The children when they grow up they will feel the same way, and the cycle continues. That's what I meant by humanity is stuck in a cycle of misery.

[MtnTime2896]

Originally Posted by Lonely Warrior

I agree with you about the condition of the parents before having children, but do you think this will prevent misery from the children's life? It might reduce it, but not eliminating it. Misery is a huge oart of life, and "those who don't cry, don't see" as Victor Hugo said.

Parents may have children for many reasons, but for sure one of them is not the benefit of the child. Because what benefits are they for the child to exist in the first place? I can say most if not all the reasons of having a child is for the benefits of the parents themselves not the children. They make them feel happy, they give them social and financial support, ... etc.

Misery and hardship are inevitable parts of life. They're strong emotions just like fear, love, hate and everything in between. All of this, is simply inevitable. Asking this question is the equivalent of wondering why a cat or dog is in heat and escaping the yard to get pregnant. It's basic biology. Humans are naturally programmed to want to reproduce, that's why sex is suppose to feel good to us. To make it more likely that we have children and continue the species.
I think that part of my brain was turned off by my past experiences. I don't want to pass on my genes. Not everybody thinks that way, and that's cool. I don't mind. Procreate if it means that much to you; just make sure you take good care of your kid and be there when they inevitably need you; including in adulthood.

[qwerty68]

As bad as it sounds, if everyone were happy all the time then there would be little value in life. I was having a little discussion with my granddaughter a few days ago. She said she wished every day was her birthday and Halloween. I asked her if she would get bored of parties, presents and candy every day and she said no, never. Six year old logic, as cute as it is, is a good counterpoint to your outlook. We all know she would get bored of those happy things and would lose all meaning to her.

I have known people that superficially look like they have no pain in life. Financially well off, very healthy physically and mentally, lots of friends, always a smile on their face etc. I was a little envious of them because I thought they breezed through life. I got to know them more and yes, they suffered plenty. I am still amazed and a little awed in how they could get metaphorically smacked around like they had and still be so happy. I use them as a gauge for my life and I can't measure up to them. Still, life has meaning for me.

Sure, the vast number of people that have lived, are living and will live, will not leave a significant mark on humanity. I think that misses the point entirely.

To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering.

Friedrich Nietzsche

Like most, you are trying to find some meaning in life to continue, nothing more. You see good days in contrast to bad ones, which is true, but why having bad days and good days is better than not having either? Nietzsche is right, and I agree with him. Life has no intrinsic meaning to it, we just find some meaning in the midst of suffering to hold on.

[Thunder Bow]

Depression comes with a re-enforcement feature. You are re-enforcing your depression with ain't it awful kind of thinking. You can disable that feature with the determination of a Warrior and heal yourself.

[Frownosaurus Rex]

" Pain is certain, suffering is optional." - Buddha

Lonely Warrior, I completely understand where you are coming from on so many levels. You didn't mention (a) are you a parent yourself, and (b) has there been a specific life circumstance (i.e. family, relationship, work, etc.), that has gotten you on your current philosophy of life?

[Quarter life]

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

Depression comes with a re-enforcement feature. You are re-enforcing your depression with ain't it awful kind of thinking. You can disable that feature with the determination of a Warrior and heal yourself.

Lack of determination and will is often the cornerstone of Clinical depression. When in the throes of deep depression it is almost impossible to say to oneself...'If only I was more determined to not be depressed'

One thing that I do know for certain is that by chipping away at fixing small things that are indeed 'fixable'... then eventually we can gain some insight and get the medical help and support we need. Clinical Depression is an illness like any other.