I had thought I was depressed but now I am thinking I am a realist. I read a book a few years ago called "learned optimism" that said that optimists were typically factually delusional. And pessimists were accurate. In a sense that book advocated becoming delusional as they advocated acting like optimists to stay sane.

Me I am a realist. But still for most of my life out of ignorance I was able to substitute optimism for ignorance -- but experience is an optimism killer.

In three areas of my life I have accepted the truth in my heart and just can't see things any other way.

Male/ female relations. I am once again giving up. I see it as a severe mismatch. In this point in time in the world men, as far as I meet, want a woman who is stick thin (you always want what is rare); are perfectly 1950s dressed; and have zero issues or baggage. They do not want a smart woman because a smart woman can tell them they are full of it. (routinely at work and on work related things I am only tolerated by the men if keep my mouth shut when they lie or exaggerate). On the women side, for the most part what men have, women don't want. All men seem to value outdoors, sports, and working out. I honestly don't think women really want that. When I think of a male character on tv / movies / books that has women swooning -- by and large... none of those things come into the mix. Think of Mr. Darcy having a scene where he was lifting weights. And I just cannot ignore the fact that the VAST majority of people who I know who are married are deliriously unhappy. If they aren't outright cheating but so unhappy they can hardly mention their spouse without a disparaging word. So, I just can't see me EVER meeting anyone who will be *the one*. This isn't because I wish it or because I haven't tried... it is just the reality.

Corruption. It is everyplace. I went into my profession thinking I wanted to make a difference. Every point where I felt I wasn't making a difference I changed gears until I did. But I have accepted it... there is no difference. It is a bunch of masters who rule the world and do what they want and we are all their minions to be abused and controlled. There are layers of bureaucracy and by and large.. nothing ever changes. I mentioned I was thinking of going to a board that had been formed to investigate sexual harassment in my work place. Well glad I didn't. Because in a record 2 months that board made all its findings and do you know what their recommendation was?? That us... the employees.. NOT THE MASTERS WHO ARE COMMITTING THE HARASSMENT.. get trained. So now for the zillionth time I have to attend a sexual harassment seminar. What a joke.

I saw a story about a guy getting parlayed by a tree branch falling on him and I, for a second, thought, I want to find a solution for people who are paralyzed, but then I thought ... ha... go to another profession and find the corruption and bureaucracy that is in mine. Is there anyplace I can make a difference? I think the answer-- truthfully... is no.

Human Relations. People are just losing their stuff and it is getting scary. I will reference the Trump stuff but you have to admit that people just don't care anymore with regard to things they don't like they are just going to do what they want and act as badly as they feel. But in my own life, as I mentioned I am on a condo board. This week several residents clearly violated policy and they got fined. The fine? A massive $15 dollars. To wit, one offender sent a nasty gram that was unhinged and frankly embarrassing. Filled with insults, filled with demands that he does important things here and thus should be cut a break. His emotions were on full display when, if he thought about it, he would know that he was clearly in the wrong and obviously we can't be cutting people breaks because of "who they are". But no he really does feel we should give him special treatment because he likes to run around during snow storms shoveling out the attractive women in the condo. When really it is just embarrassing to see him trying to make time with them. I just cannot help but feeling that people are losing their civility and their frankly, brains, and manners and are regressing to a lower state. An emotional, somewhat delusional, state. Nothing he said in this missive was close to the truth, which means he either isn't aware of truth or is unable to accept it. There is just so much of that. I can't relate to 99% of humans and I realize it is because I am a realist and many of them are living in a dreamland. Telling them the truth in anyway gets them to hate you with a passion.

So I don't know if I am depressed but I wonder how to deal with these things... this world... the world I live in and don't see changing at least in my life time. Where do I find sources of joy? It is hard to find any lately. Most of my life currently is starting to involve staying in my house at all times. Even going out on a weekend to go shopping can invariably involve someone getting upset with me for taking "their" space or my getting upset with someone for running to beat me in line with they have 700+ items and I have 3.

Joy is something rare and fleeting... where do you find it?

[divine1966]

I can relate to some of what you mentioned and absolutely cannot relate to some of it. I totally agree about corruption. There is a lot of it everywhere you go. Yes it’s hard to make a difference. But I refuse to give up. I believe even little things could make a difference. Although I understand what you are saying. I agree there are rude people out there but just as many are quite polite and friendly. I am very selective who I hang out during my free time. Maybe that helps me to avoid nasty people.

I am not sure where you live but I don’t see that every man likes sports or outdoors at all. Plenty I know don’t. Sure many men like thin women, not all though. I never in my life kept my mouth shut and tell it how it’s 24/7. Sure some men like women who aren’t smart and whom they can overpower, but most educated intelligent men prefer strong intelligent women. I am not sure if you are looking in particular circles.

Are these men you are referring to educated? They sound like they are rather primitive if they don’t like smart women or they only like sports and outdoors. Not my kind of men.

I agree with you that many people stuck in bad marriages, not all though.

Things that bring people joy: hobbies. Do you have hobbies? My hobbies bring me immense joy.

Travel? If can’t travel far, Even small two day trips. There are single travel groups in my area.

Reading? I just finished pretty interesting book and am half through the other one. I
Also joined a book club although I have hard time going there between two jobs.

Movies? Good movie is such a joy.

Working out? Zumba and jazzercuse are fun. Frankly I am lazy but when I do go it’s fun.

Do you like to get hair or nails done? Or nice clothes. I know it’s silly but I guess I am vain lol and I enjoy nice or new things. Change your hair style? Decorate your house?

Cooking? (Doesn’t give me that much joy but others love it)

Job? My job brings me joy most of the time. Not all the time of course.

Magazines? I subscribe to a few and I run to the mail box excited to get them. I get them digitally too, but paper copy is just too exciting.

Joining groups? Ive met like minded people through meet up groups. But of course some weren’t interesting. So I dropped those

Museums? If there are any in your area. Not too many where I live but I just got excited that new exhibition starts soon in my local art museum.

Art? Or music? Play/create or just watch/listen?

I can keep going but do any of these things could bring you joy?

[seesaw]

When I was younger I was an optimist. I wasn't stupid or ignorant, I just had high hopes for what the world could be. Part of me still had high hopes for what the world can be, but I'm also a realist now. I know what reality is and I look at situations and expect reality out of them. I don't expect the worst or the best. I look at the facts and try to forecast a reasonable outcome. I can be pessimistic but I try not to let myself go there because honestly I'd just have to kill myself.

But yes, I am with you on the male/female relations BS....I see the same problems all around me. Part of it, I know, is where I live. I can't find anyone I can date here for the life of me. In fact, eHarmony hasn't sent me a match in weeks because no one in my geographic area matches with me...(mostly due to religion and politics, things I'm not willing to compromise on...with friends sure, with my "match" no). As far as corruption, all I can say is, YUP. It's everywhere. And the problem is always to blame the victim. Nothing new there. All I can do is try and stand up for what's right and make sure I can sleep at night.

James Levine was recently fired from the Met Opera FINALLY after decades of alleged misconduct. I do not know if the allegations are true, but what I can say, from my own experience, is that in the classical music industry there is LOADS of sexual harassment going on by the old white men in charge and they never get in trouble for it. I say it from first-hand experience. But I have been as vocal as I can be about it and stood my ground, and that is all I can do. The only way we can fight corruption is to shine a light on it and not stop. Momentum builds and then things like the #metoo movement take hold or the kids take a stand like the Parkland students. Every snowball that starts has to start with a few snow flurries falling first...

Human relations, well...don't get me started.

I feel ya, Emily. I don't have any advice for feeling better about it, except that it's okay to hold on to some optimism. It's okay to be all three in different aspects of our lives.

For change we want to see in the world, optimism is good. For insurance, pessimism is good. For most other things, being pragmatic is fairly safe and reasonable.

[Viewofthesky]

Joy is something rare and fleeting... where do you find it?[/QUOTE]

I find it in nature. And when I remind myself of the love I have in my life through different people I care for who also care for me. Doing other things I love just hasn't been doing it for me lately. It's really hard to find joy sometimes when you are feeling really down. But it is still possible at these times to feel joy, though at least for me I find that is it is harder to hold on to those feelings and carry them with you. It sometimes takes making a real effort to distract yourself from pain. It is better for those distractions to be the healthy kind and not the narcotic kind like food, alcohol, etc. I can't wait for the weather to improve so I can take long walks and hike. I wish you well in your efforts to find joy too.

[Artchic528]

My boyfriend can't stand the concept of stick then skeletal women. He, like most men these days, prefer curvy full figured ladies.

He also hates going outdoors, which isn't uncommon.

Honestly, you should work on loving yourself and your life and everything will fall into place, romantic love included.

[divine1966]

I don’t think being optimistic is being delusional or stupid. I don’t really care about labels. I look at it that no one gets out of this life alive. That’s all we have. Not going to have another life. If that’s all we have, might as well look for things to bring us joy. Not only tomorrow might never come as we get older there are fewer things we can do (health or physical abilities), so might as well do them.

Even if you have pessimistic view on life, you can still try to look for things to enjoy.

It also helps to not care what other people do or don’t do( I don’t mean not caring about people’s well beings). I don’t care about what kind of marriages people have or what they do in their free time or how they do their jobs. I don’t really have the time to worry. Especially if these people aren’t close friends or family. Just do what matters to you and don’t worry about others.

Originally Posted by seesaw

The only way we can fight corruption is to shine a light on it and not stop. Momentum builds and then things like the #metoo movement take hold or the kids take a stand like the Parkland students. Every snowball that starts has to start with a few snow flurries falling first...

No, I don't believe that anymore. Seriously perhaps I am too old but I have now been around like 18 of these "movements" where I think things are going to change... and they just don't. Laws get written and then... they get ignored. They are on the books to provide cover but quietly ... in the back ground, corrupt people change the rules.

I used to use like one bright light to motivate me. The belief I was going to make a difference in the world or the belief I was going to find a great guy or the belief I was going to find a great place to live. But the big dreams keep being taken away by reality and the smaller dreams are less able to motivate me.

Hobbies do bring me joy but for some reason I can't seem to do them. I just don't have the time to get them done really?

Movies really suck lately. What is also weird is that movies don't stick around in the theater? I mean like I wanted to see "game night" but for some reason after week one it only plays at 9 PM. Err... nope.

Travel used to bring me joy but it doesn't anymore. I think I have been everyplace I want to go. Then... I just can't spend $500 on a trip. That is a dishwasher.

The rest really doesn't interest me.

I feel like I am grasping at straws though.. instead of the big clouds that used to sustain me. I have a good 40 years left...how am I going to get by?

[divine1966]

I can’t imagine how can one already visit every place they wanted to go? I’ve been to 20 countries, many more than once and I’ve been to around 20 states and I haven’t even scratched the surface. I can’t really afford to travel more than once a year so clearly I’ll never see everything in a life time. I don’t know how it’s possible? You don’t want to see same place twice? There are places I just want to keep going and I would if I could.

I don’t know about not having time. Do you work on the weekends too? I work two jobs right now, adds up to 60 hours a week with one day off a week (unless I take vacation). And I commute two hours a day so I agree Its hard to find time but you can do a bit, I plan on drawing about 6 to 8 tonight. Sure I won’t finish it but I’ll get further along.

What do you do on the weekends? Maybe you are avid gardener? Two of my friends are very busy spring and summer because they are very big on gardening. They have gorgeous gardens though. I can’t care less about gardening but I understand not having time if that’s the case.

There are some bad movies, I agree. But there are some good ones. There were few last year, I really liked Lady Bird. Was dussaponted it didn’t win anything.

Have you talked to your t (if you have one) about how you feel? There has to be something to bring you joy.

[cool09]

One joy I have is not watching the nightly news. I haven't found much joy.

[tevelygo]

To OP: your post is full of positive details but you only notice the negative details. That to me isn't realism.

Example: You speak of your profession, and working at a workplace and then of some issues at the workplace.

The positives: You have a profession. You have a job and work at a workplace.

You neglect all these positives. This isn't realism.

[tevelygo]

Originally Posted by Emily Fox Seaton

No, I don't believe that anymore. Seriously perhaps I am too old but I have now been around like 18 of these "movements" where I think things are going to change... and they just don't.

They change, they just change slowly. Compare the world now to how the world was 100 years ago, 200 years ago and so on... Complex things just don't change that fast.

men, as far as I meet, want a woman who is stick thin (you always want what is rare); are perfectly 1950s dressed; and have zero issues or baggage.

This simply doesn't match the facts about how men are. It sounds like you only notice certain men...?

And I just cannot ignore the fact that the VAST majority of people who I know who are married are deliriously unhappy. If they aren't outright cheating but so unhappy they can hardly mention their spouse without a disparaging word.

What are your exact statistics on this?

I saw a story about a guy getting parlayed by a tree branch falling on him and I, for a second, thought, I want to find a solution for people who are paralyzed, but then I thought ... ha... go to another profession and find the corruption and bureaucracy that is in mine. Is there anyplace I can make a difference? I think the answer-- truthfully... is no.

You most certainly can make a difference! Don't give up here.

People are just losing their stuff and it is getting scary.

I don't really see people losing their stuff more than before. Obviously we have to keep working at improving things, I will agree with you on that.

All in all... I hope you can try and find the positive details too like I said in my above post.

[wolfgaze]

Originally Posted by Emily Fox Seaton

Joy is something rare and fleeting... where do you find it?

*Service-To-Others / Helping People
*Engaging in valuable and meaningful communications and interactions with others
*Spending time outdoors and immersed in nature
*Spending time bonding with animals

I should note, that earlier in my life I could not appreciate these aspect of the life experience - because I was too burdened and weighed down by my own suffering and my own afflictions... For me, it took a lot of growth and healing before I could find any 'joy' and 'reward' from this life experience...

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by Emily Fox Seaton

I had thought I was depressed but now I am thinking I am a realist. I read a book a few years ago called "learned optimism" that said that optimists were typically factually delusional. And pessimists were accurate. In a sense that book advocated becoming delusional as they advocated acting like optimists to stay sane.

Me I am a realist. But still for most of my life out of ignorance I was able to substitute optimism for ignorance -- but experience is an optimism killer.

In three areas of my life I have accepted the truth in my heart and just can't see things any other way.

Male/ female relations. I am once again giving up. I see it as a severe mismatch. In this point in time in the world men, as far as I meet, want a woman who is stick thin (you always want what is rare); are perfectly 1950s dressed; and have zero issues or baggage. They do not want a smart woman because a smart woman can tell them they are full of it. (routinely at work and on work related things I am only tolerated by the men if keep my mouth shut when they lie or exaggerate). On the women side, for the most part what men have, women don't want. All men seem to value outdoors, sports, and working out. I honestly don't think women really want that. When I think of a male character on tv / movies / books that has women swooning -- by and large... none of those things come into the mix. Think of Mr. Darcy having a scene where he was lifting weights. And I just cannot ignore the fact that the VAST majority of people who I know who are married are deliriously unhappy. If they aren't outright cheating but so unhappy they can hardly mention their spouse without a disparaging word. So, I just can't see me EVER meeting anyone who will be *the one*. This isn't because I wish it or because I haven't tried... it is just the reality.

Corruption. It is everyplace. I went into my profession thinking I wanted to make a difference. Every point where I felt I wasn't making a difference I changed gears until I did. But I have accepted it... there is no difference. It is a bunch of masters who rule the world and do what they want and we are all their minions to be abused and controlled. There are layers of bureaucracy and by and large.. nothing ever changes. I mentioned I was thinking of going to a board that had been formed to investigate sexual harassment in my work place. Well glad I didn't. Because in a record 2 months that board made all its findings and do you know what their recommendation was?? That us... the employees.. NOT THE MASTERS WHO ARE COMMITTING THE HARASSMENT.. get trained. So now for the zillionth time I have to attend a sexual harassment seminar. What a joke.

I saw a story about a guy getting parlayed by a tree branch falling on him and I, for a second, thought, I want to find a solution for people who are paralyzed, but then I thought ... ha... go to another profession and find the corruption and bureaucracy that is in mine. Is there anyplace I can make a difference? I think the answer-- truthfully... is no.

Human Relations. People are just losing their stuff and it is getting scary. I will reference the Trump stuff but you have to admit that people just don't care anymore with regard to things they don't like they are just going to do what they want and act as badly as they feel. But in my own life, as I mentioned I am on a condo board. This week several residents clearly violated policy and they got fined. The fine? A massive $15 dollars. To wit, one offender sent a nasty gram that was unhinged and frankly embarrassing. Filled with insults, filled with demands that he does important things here and thus should be cut a break. His emotions were on full display when, if he thought about it, he would know that he was clearly in the wrong and obviously we can't be cutting people breaks because of "who they are". But no he really does feel we should give him special treatment because he likes to run around during snow storms shoveling out the attractive women in the condo. When really it is just embarrassing to see him trying to make time with them. I just cannot help but feeling that people are losing their civility and their frankly, brains, and manners and are regressing to a lower state. An emotional, somewhat delusional, state. Nothing he said in this missive was close to the truth, which means he either isn't aware of truth or is unable to accept it. There is just so much of that. I can't relate to 99% of humans and I realize it is because I am a realist and many of them are living in a dreamland. Telling them the truth in anyway gets them to hate you with a passion.

So I don't know if I am depressed but I wonder how to deal with these things... this world... the world I live in and don't see changing at least in my life time. Where do I find sources of joy? It is hard to find any lately. Most of my life currently is starting to involve staying in my house at all times. Even going out on a weekend to go shopping can invariably involve someone getting upset with me for taking "their" space or my getting upset with someone for running to beat me in line with they have 700+ items and I have 3.

Joy is something rare and fleeting... where do you find it?

I agree and relate to everything you said. Just like what I've mentioned in my thread, I prefer to be more realistic than overly optimistic. It is possible maybe you have minor depression if you have other symptoms of it, but otherwise it could be that you just simply see the world differently. Same goes for me. Sometimes I wonder if I have mild depression since I do tend to get sad very easily, but then again it could be just that I am a realist which could cause sadness more frequently I think.