[TishaBuv]

It’s always the same conversation. My mom cross examines me about my discussion with my husband. She argues with whatever I say and twists it around, ultimately to call me stupid, to try to get me to worry that I made a bad choice, to try to make herself seem all knowing perhaps.

Here’s how the conversation always ends:

Her: “Why did you have to say that? That was very stupid to say.”
Me: “Because it’s the truth and I say the truth now. I don’t care if you think I’m stupid. Who needs you to tell me I’m stupid. You’ve made such great choices in all your dealings, right mom?”
Her:“Ok. Bye.” Nastily, sarcastically. And hangs up.
Me: “Bye.” Same.

I used to get very upset over this. I now understand this is just who she is, and no matter how I try to steer the conversation to not end like this, she will not rest until it does. Then she acts like nothing ever happened.

So, now I do feel tightnessz in my chest and hot stress washing over me, but I need to breathe and let it go. Zen

[Open Eyes]

I agree, this can be very frustrating as you now know that your mother tends to interact in the same pattern towards you and she tends to talk down to you without actually realizing she is doing this with you.

How old is your mother?

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

I agree, this can be very frustrating as you now know that your mother tends to interact in the same pattern towards you and she tends to talk down to you without actually realizing she is doing this with you.

How old is your mother?

She’s 83, I’m 53. It’s always been the same, but I used to think she was right and doubt myself. It’s only been recently that I finally see this for what it is. She knows she’s doing it. She doesn’t care. I’m pretty sure she has NPD.

I just wish I could stop myself from getting sucked into it.

[TishaBuv]

She’s giving me digs that I am giving money to lawyers to get divorced. It stems from that she wants me to give her money and she resents any one else that I do give money. It’s too whack to even explain because it is illogical. But that’s what’s behind her twisting things.

[TishaBuv]

I used to have the ring tone when she calls Beethoven’s Fifth. That would prepare me that I was about to get attacked. Yet, I always believe at first that my loving mother wants to have a caring discussion about my well-being. I get sucked in. In the back of my mind I see it going off track and I am faced with let her call me stupid or defend myself.

[seesaw]

Maybe just refrain from giving your mother information then? She's not going to change, so don't give her the information to ***** about.

[TishaBuv]

Yeah, I think I’ll have to try that. That’s what I tried to do with my former friend who got so viscous due to me not giving her the personal information, she attacked me so bad I had to end the friendship.

Very interesting in the similarity of the dysfunction from my mom and the frenemy I allowed in my life for so long.

[Open Eyes]

Tisha, at 83 your mom is not going to change and she is also a product of her generation too, different time, different rules to live by. She comes out of late 1930's early 40's era childhood? Wow, totally different compared to today's generation.

[downandlonely]

I'm sorry conversations with your mom are so hurtful. When my mom is manic, she can be hurtful too.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Tisha, at 83 your mom is not going to change and she is also a product of her generation too, different time, different rules to live by. She comes out of late 1930's early 40's era childhood? Wow, totally different compared to today's generation.

I know I’m not going to change her. Her thinking based on her generation is very wise and spot on actually. She raised me to be hypervitilantly over analytical and an independent thinker. But then she has this practice of making me and my sisters feel we are incapable and only she knows what to do. But in her own life she made terrible choices! She is a contrarian. I think she ‘plays the devils advocate ‘ just to get off on the debate. It’s exhausting for me. I see it for what it is now. I know she’s old and sick and I try to be kind. But she pushes my buttons and I am angry I need to try to not get sucked in. I think I’ll have a lot of dishes burning in the oven and have to get off the phone.

[Open Eyes]

She raised me to be hypervitilantly over analytical and an independent thinker. But then she has this practice of making me and my sisters feel we are incapable and only she knows what to do.

Was/is she a hyper-vigilant woman?

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Was/is she a hyper-vigilant woman?

Extremely. Always was. My father died when she was only 42 and she really never recovered from that trauma. But she became so much worse as she aged and physically deteriorated. She had a car accident four years ago where she broke her sternum and really took a nosedive since then.

[TishaBuv]

But now she’s back on Facebook giving likes to my posts. She forgets and it’s like nothing happened it is only me that gets upset from the conflict.

[Open Eyes]

I see, your mother has an ongoing fear of not being in "control". She has some unresolved trauma and at the core of these traumas is a deep loss of control. It sounds like your mother, without realizing it has been bringing you and your siblings into this over analyzing that stems from her own deep fears of losing control. And YES, it would make sense that she has gotten worse with age too as that is something she can't really control either, a lot of people struggle with that challenge. With your mother, she is also "alone" too as she lost her husband when she was still fairly young and she had children to raise and had to parent. She wanted her children to be strong and independent but because of her own challenges she unknowingly taught her own children to "self doubt" as she continued to question their decisions. This is what causes you to "feel" the way you do when you consult with her. It's important that you understand her dilemma Tisha so you can work on the affect she has on you. I am not making "light" of this either because this is not such an easy "fix" and requires you to "catch" how you react and work on reminding yourself that you feed into "her" problem and now that you know what it is you can choose to gradually change how it affects you. It sounds like this has been going on for "years" too, so this isn't "just" a don't allow because it's going to take a constant "conscious" effort on your part and a "lot" of patience. Your mother doesn't understand that her effort to help "you" gain control turns into your feeling like she is constantly denying you of just that.

[TishaBuv]

It’s so hard to stop confiding in her and seeking her approval. But I have to try harder. Every time I start a conversation going down that path, I am sorry I did.

Maybe I can mother myself and have the conversation with myself that I long for with my mother. Maybe that will give me the warm, fuzzy feeling I crave.

How about a service called Dial-a-Mom?

[Open Eyes]

It’s so hard to stop confiding in her and seeking her approval. But I have to try harder. Every time I start a conversation going down that path, I am sorry I did.

It sounds like your mother unknowingly raised you to have a lot of self doubt. Often this kind of relationship between a parent and child can actually be handed down and considered "normal". Often a conversation is like handing in a paper that needs to be corrected, where the feedback is always emphasizing what's considered wrong instead of focusing more on what is right and good. A parent can actually play the "critical" role not realizing that instead of actually helping their child build healthy self esteem, the parent is consistently trampling on it by disagreeing and criticizing instead.

But now she’s back on Facebook giving likes to my posts.

Well, that's what parents were taught to do in public, remember her age and generation.
There are two conversations that take place, one in private where the parent corrects the child and another in public where the parent tries to praise the child. Keep in mind this pattern of behavior was practiced not really realizing that private interactions can adversely affect self esteem. Parents in your mother's generation were often encouraged to criticize and punish in order to maintain control over their children in their own home, but they tend to be more careful not to do that in public.

What you have been doing now is noticing what your interactions with your mother mean to you, how after confiding in her you end up with a bad feeling about yourself instead of having your conversations actually provide you with a feeling that you have been heard and you have just felt actual love and support and given permission to make important decisions of your own.

Stepping back and actually looking at this challenge can help you see how your mother has been consistently showing you "what she knows" how to do and interact. This is how she learned to organize her interactions based on "her" generation and personal history.

What bothers you about her is that she doesn't actually allow you to have "control". That is why you tend to always feel let down and disappointed whenever you talk to her.

Maybe I can mother myself and have the conversation with myself that I long for with my mother. Maybe that will give me the warm, fuzzy feeling I crave.

Yes, you can learn to have this conversation where a part of you finally realizes that your mother only follows a pattern of behavior that she herself can't seem to recognize never provides you with permission to actually develop "healthier" self esteem. Then this part of you can begin to slowly work on learning how to reduce the feeling you get when you do interact with her. This is not easy because your interactions with your mother have developed a pattern in you for a lot of years and part of that is wanting something from her that she is not ever going to be capable of giving you. You are going to need to "learn" how to identify whatever power she has over you and then learn to gradually no longer allow her to have this power. I know this can be a challenge, there is no real "just" don't allow about it IMHO. Often a family member or partner or someone in close contact can have a lot of power over us emotionally that we don't consciously realize. It's not easy to "just" stop the deep emotional "training" that can actually span one's lifetime of experiencing. It really requires a person to learn how to develop a lot of "patience with self".

It strikes me as especially sad that after being verbally abusive, she acts as though nothing ever happened. That really shows the lack of respect she has. Personally, I would limit my contact and I wouldn’t share much about myself. It might feel awkward at first but it might also soon feel like a huge relief.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Sisabel

It strikes me as especially sad that after being verbally abusive, she acts as though nothing ever happened. That really shows the lack of respect she has. Personally, I would limit my contact and I wouldn’t share much about myself. It might feel awkward at first but it might also soon feel like a huge relief.

It’s incredible that it’s taken me 50 years to really get this concept through my head and see it for that’s what it is. She always went on a verbally abusive attack on me then acted like nothing ever happened. When I confronted her in recent years, she said she wasn’t sorry and that I deserved it.

Not only does she go on an attack on me or one of my sisters, but then she will call everyone in her circle and bad mouth us to each other. I have even caught her telling lies about me to exaggerate the story and paint her as the victim.

Again...sounds like NPD to me. And here, my dysfunction in my marriage with my husband, causing me the worst crying, depressive hysteria I ever had, far worse than any blow out my mother ever caused... the Borderline traits came out due to my husband—not my mother.

My mother may have instilled the Borderline reaction, but my husband caused it to surface when I was in my late 30’s.

I’ve always handled my mother fairly well, even had a very good relationship with her for many years when I was single. It was my husband I couldn’t handle.

[TishaBuv]

At this point my mother is in her final years. I have nothing more to fight about with her. She knows she failed at exploiting me. She knows she is going to fall down by herself. That’s the way she wants it.

I took my folks to a memorial for their friend yesterday. It was in an assisted living home. The minute my mom walked in she got nervously triggered and said “Don’t ever put me in one of these places.

Possible trigger:

Give me cyanide instead.” Her friend really did drink cyanide, so it’s no joke.

.

But we all got along fine yesterday. I have now learned that she can hang up on me and then if she acts like it was nothing, then I will too.

[TishaBuv]

See, I never cared much about having a battle for control with my mother. I just did what I wanted to do when she wasn’t looking.

The hysteria that came out with my husband was because I couldn’t control what I needed to with him. The frustration this caused is what brought out the EDD, Borderline traits.

This is an Oprah Aha moment!

[TishaBuv]

And I might have gotten through my life without having the emotional meltdowns and being just fine, if my husband hadn’t truly been someone who did ignore my needs that I adequately expressed, and he didn’t really care how he hurt me, and there really is something wrong with him, and he really did pull dirty shenanigans.

[Open Eyes]

It sounds like you have too many individuals in your life that don't "respect" you and need to have things "their way" which includes them having the control.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

It sounds like you have too many individuals in your life that don't "respect" you and need to have things "their way" which includes them having the control.

Only my mother and my husband (ex). I had a life-long friend who was also a source of lots of toxic drama, and I ended that relationship two months ago when she so grossly crossed the line and I saw her true colors.

Other than that I have good relationships with the rest of family and friends. No problems with relationships at work either. (Unless I encounter truly problematic people, as I did a few years ago at a volunteer leadership position that was unbelievable, which I handled very well)

No road rage, get along fine in the community, etc...

[TishaBuv]

Perhaps I can’t have an intimate relationship and deep down the problem IS me. As long as the emotional hysterics stop, I’m fine with that. It’s been six months separated, and I have been 98% better.

[TishaBuv]

She just got me again. I let her have it. I saw it going downhill. I thought about saying nothing and getting off the phone. But I let her have it for stirring up trouble and how toxic that was of her. As usual, she instantly says she’s so sick and starts to hang up on me. I told her how immature that is of her and how I hate when she does that. She says “You’ve got a God damn nerve” and I said, “You’ve got a God damn nerve to stir up trouble. You couldn’t wait to get on that phone and let your daughters have it just to stir up trouble.” So then she puts my step dad on the phone. He tells me she really is sick. I said, “Not so sick that she didn’t call her daughters to tell us what POS we are”.

Yes, I was at fault that I didn’t call my cousin to send my condolences to her. Guilty as charged. She couldn’t wait to tell me how my aunt thinks all of us are POS for not sending condolences. I honestly meant to, but waited a couple weeks. I had actually called last night, but she didn’t answer and there was no answering message. I do feel bad. Now I feel worse and it’s too late to call after I’ve been told off.

Then I told my dad how I will not forget how he never called me and never would have talked to me again after that huge blow out last year, how much that hurts, and how I’ll never get over it. He said “That’s not true.” It is true. That’s what happened.

So that’s that. Another blow out with my folks. I could not let her badger me and cause drama and get away with it. It triggers me too much and I fight back. Yuck. Shytty family.