Is the "Chemical Imbalance of the Brain" theory open to challenge?

The 'chemical imbalance' theory is pushed by drug companies.

It's a vast oversimplification.

We understand very little about the brain, compared to what we know abt the rest of the body. And there's a reason for that's the brain is incredibly complex, the most complex machine in our known universe. Hundreds of trillions of connections, hundreds of billions of brain cells, a nearly infinite number of possible mental states.

The drugs can be useful, but their effects usu plateau and leave us where we started, but now addicted to a drug that will cause rebound depression when we stop it. Antidepressants can save lives, but there's a price to pay down the road.

Never forget, corporations exist for one reason, to make a profit for the shareholders.


Sent from Winterfell using a Raven

I would agree with that, at least for me. I think for me my depression comes from circumstances more than "brain chemistry". I feel very alone, my family is split up, I feel surrounded by others who are having health problems, etc. It seems like for me there's just nothing much to look forward to. It seems like everyone else has it all together with their lives except for me. And recently there are some health concerns for me. I have been perfectly healthy all of my life. I still feel healthy but I've been told to see some specialists because there are some concerns.

That's how I see it with the "brain chemistry" theory.

Yes! and now many many people have to get their kidneys checked every 6 weeks because they're swallowing metal daily! oh wait no, the pdocs try to convince us its a salt! SALT??? uhm excuse me, its an alkali metal and when combined with a non metal, it can FORM salt... I know what the periodic table looks like. I may as well eat my cellphone battery instead....

So they are injecting animals with a touch of maddness? Oops I mean mania!

Must be very interesting to see animals spend their life savings in 1 trip to the mall and those poor animals must have been so confused with the grandoise thinking, hypersexuality and racing thoughts ! I hope none of them thought they were a superhero! My friend walked into the traffic when she believed that!

These Poor poor unsuspecting animals, being turned bipolar when there isn't even a cure to return them to normal...

I appreciate the attempt at "enlightenment", but I made up my mind about this years ago

Well, to start with, everyone is not "wired" the same. And in the second place, the
majority of serotonin neurotransmitters are not located in the brain. About 95% or
more are located in the digestive system. Don't tell me that we all react in our
digestive systems the same way!

Orthomolecular science has the edge on treatment for depression and bipolar illness, in my view. I've seen in myself too many changes from diet improvement to believe that we all don't
have a lot of work to do on our nutrition in an effort to help brain function. My view is somewhat different from that of others, but I have always seen a psychiatrist, never an Orthomolecular specialist--probably should have if one were in our area.

The fact that treatment is so different for so many people explains to me, in part, why this illness is different for almost everyone. I've rarely seen anyone with the same symptoms I have. Dr Jamison and Dr. Goodwin who wrote "Manic Depressive Illness" explain in their work that this is not a static illness; it is a dynamic one. Things may be constantly in a changing state.

One of the most common threads I've seen over the years in this illness is that somewhere in the background of many bipolar and depression patients, alcohol seems to have been present whether in generations earlier or in an immediate member of the family. In many cases, it was used as a self-medication effort. That's a question posed to me by one psychiatrist whom I saw earlier in my life: "does anyone in your family drink alcohol?"

About 70% of depressed patients are known to be missing at least two enzymes in the stomach that metabolize folic acid into folate, a form of Vitamin B6 that the brain can use. The other 30% probably are not med resistant, but that's just a guess. At any rate, both depression and bipolar illness often are challenges for psychiatrists to treat effectively--that is, to do so without side effects that are often more bothersome than the illness itself and to do so when patients present with alcohol or other drug conditions.

In my view, I think that's why many of us try to do as much as we can to avoid the need to take medications in high dosages. It's an uphill climb in healing in these illnesses, but it is so in every other illness as well.

These are illnesses, I think, that will eventually be treated with gene replacement therapy, and the sooner it happens, I'll be one of the earliest ones to get in line for treatment.

Yeah, I am thinking that too. ANimals get horny, but it's natural (or my humping and whiny cat is bipolar. Should hide my credit card for him before he maxes it out to by a car or something).

good for you. I will be the one who will defend her genes by all means necesary from being replaced.

The thought I had something replaced and wake up boring with sudden urge to vote big right one party, dress in gray, cut my hair in businnesswoman cut and buy weekened house... truly scares me.

okay... enough snark.

I know I was thinking more along the lines of inter-species humping in the labs. You know, mice humping rabbits, guineapigs humping chimps, because with hypersexuality, you're not just super horny, your judgement is off! HAHAHA

that's hilarious. Lab orgy!

well, dogs and cats hump humans quite frequently. I had a cat who tried to hump humans, his mother against her will, the dog, a hen... my current cat likes me too much too

I wonder what the world for dogs and cats being attracted to humans would be... a humanphilia (as in zoophilia?).

Humaphillia!!! That's fkn hillarious!!! But yeah you catch my drift with the lab orgy, wonder if the animals felt guilty and ashamed after the mania and they realized they could be pregnant with a chimpanguinea!!! How do you even explain that to the poor baby???

Ah, well. Many, many views on the forum. Thanks for the original thread, Rose.

Venus, I'd like to be around and see how you react when the time comes that gene therapy is
a cure and would like to watch how you see people responding to its effectiveness. One of
the best things you've posted has been the statement that it is not beneficial to be a member
of a society which is profoundly ill...or something similar.

When there is no such thing as "normal", how individuals would respond to life around them
and to their own inner principles might change society radically (though some have finally
awakened to the fact that we're all more alike than we are different).

Anything would be better than the idea (as Dr. Jamison suggests in "Touched With Fire" could feasibly happen) that bipolar patients, depressive ones, or mentally deficient ones might not be permitted to reproduce. t We can't say that it would never happen, because it did happen in Germany in World War II.

Genetic coding plays a far more important role in all of this than is generally thought, I think.

I wouldn't mind being genetically re-engineered to be a creative person or to have a gift in painting,
sculpture, etc. To be it rather than to desire it would make life fun for me.

Yes, it's a metal just like zinc, iron and magnesium are metals and all of which the human body needs to stay healthy. And salt intake effects lithium levels. Lithium treatment was shown to have a positive effect on controlling mania. What's your point?

I believe that Medical Scientists know very little about Mood Disorders but they do know that the brain is extremely complex and works mysteriously.

Alcoholics can eventually grow more receptors on their brain cell synapses that will accept alcohol and the other receptors that accept various other neurotransmitters start to diminish. Consequently, drinkers crave more and more alcohol and become addicted.

And you can't argue with PET Scans that show abnormal brain activity (ie electrical activity) in people that suffer from disorders like OCD. Or even depression for that matter.

been born into totalitarian state. Seen it fall and seen turmoil in my land... and much bloodier turmoil down there in Balkans.

Studied totalitarian regimes and read dystopic novels... nothing in the world can convince me "gene replacement" is good idea.

You really think it would be possible to be changed to what YOU like? You think you'd be allowed to expand traits that could possibly lead to undermining status quo? Who'd want it? Who'd allow it?

More dangers than hopes. I hope I am not around when it happens.

Well now my point evidently is that I can have a zinc, iron or magnesium deficiency. They occur naturally in my body and have metabolic functions unlike Lithium. I cannot have Lithium deficiency no matter how you spin it. Then there would be lithium supplements available OTC so that nobody need suffer a lithium deficiency!

Yes, Venus, I think I could get the gene replacement I requested if what I wanted
was something that could be beneficial to me and to society.

I certainly can't see that such a desire would be undermining the status quo, although change is inevitable in life; always has been, always will be. The status quo leaves much to be desired, in my view.

Unscrupulous people exist now, but fortunately, there are good leaders and scientists
who help us try to keep the world as safe as we can.

Where does totalitarianism enter this discussion? (I know what it is; I married into a
family that was totalitarian and it crumbled, too. Not my marriage, however. I
just realized what it was and lived my life outside that attempted authority.)

You obviously made some choices about it, too.

I'm all for progress in the human condition--mine and everybody else's if it can be done
with benefits for everyone.

Many good things have come to us through chemistry.

I doubt we'll ever have gene replacement in adults but for IVF babies we could correct some of this at the single cell level with the technology available today so that people with a disease might not pass it onto their kids. I'm not sure about the ethics of this and it wouldn't work on multigenic disease.

________________________________________________

Interesting concept. Why would it not be applicable to adults? I can
understand that once the brain is mature it might not be possible to alter
conditions, but things such as enzyme replacements for inherited missing
enzymes might be feasible for adults, in my view. We already have
medications that supply those products the enzymes would produce. It
would be nice just not to have to take medications for it, in my view.

I would agree that the brain is very, very complex, but I have faith in
science and the intelligence motivating academic interests in related fields,
so young people might very well live to see dramatic changes in help
for illnesses.

I will never forget learning that the German scientists who developed
rocket ships in World War II openly admitted when they came to the U.S.
to help with rocket development following the war said, "We had help",
meaning that they were assisted by extraterrestrials. The creation
of the laser is one of their products copied by our scientists who
tracked the laser backwards in its engineering and developed it for use
worldwide.

Those kinds of things are going on all over the world probably. We just
don't know about it.

Imagination allows all kind of positive thinking for the future.

The problem is access....there are two major transection reagents...charged lipids and viral delivery and both need to access the outside of cells to gain entry. In more complex tissues access would be limited to where the reagent is injected because of cell cell connections. At the single cell level this is not a problem.
Second there is a problem with incorporation into the nucleus. Cells must divide in order for DNA to reach the nucleus where genes will be expressed. Brain cells at least most brain cells do not divide and grow, but at the single cell level there is profound growth and each cell will have a copy of the gene you inserted.

Still since we can't even work with stem cells it's unlikely that people will allow this to be done with children.

Lithium carbonate is the thing given for bipolar disorder, not lithium metal. Table salt is sodium chloride, which gives your body few problems, but sodium metal -- you would not want to eat that.

Nevertheless, "the specific biochemical mechanism of lithium action in mania is unknown." So there is a lot of "we don't really know" in the process.

I didn't say that lithium was an essential chemical needed by the human body but there are other metal elements that the human body needs to stay healthy.
Werner von Braun was the German genius who developed the missile and agreed to work with America after the War instead of being taken to court for War crimes. His work made the Apollo missions a reality. And I highly doubt that he consulted with aliens regarding missile technology. I certainly never heard that in Engineering school or the USAF.

____________________________________

Probably not; much of alien technology has been kept highly classified
by U.S. Government and military for obvious reasons.

totalitarians entered the debate cause Venus was born with Soviet tanks in her country. Sure if comrades could install some genes that would make people less thinking and more servile... they'd do it. That's how they cherry picked the leaders in their countries. And imagine that instead of killing/retiring those who rebelled, they could simply replace few genes. Scary.

There is good leaders, but they are few in many. And I doubt Havel or Nelson Mandela would be FOR gene replacement.

I think we can progress without messing with our genes. We managed to do so for millenia... so why screw with our potential? I try not to eat GMO and many people do the same... not sure I want to ever meet GMO.

_________________________________
Well, you definitely have your opinions, as do we all. And many of us differ, as is probably natural. I do have some faith in the fundamental goodness of mankind. If I didn't believe that, I'd just as soon not be around for a future expectation either.

I can't sit here without posting about my experience on SSRI - Lexapro. Iwas on it for two years and began to wean off for about a month. The HELL one goes through to get to the other side is awful, but I must admit - worth it because I am SSRI free. I have replaced it with exercise, B12 and Tryptophan. I'm NOT saying this is everyone's course of action, but I have researched ALOT about Lexapro and other SSRI's. Dr's give them out like candy these days without considering the long term affects.

The serotonin they say that is in your brain is really active in your digestive tract. You should read about it. Oh, it's in your brain too, but not as much as in other places in the body.

The neuro transmitters DO get singed when on Lexapro or other SSRI's. If they didn't, than coming off this stuff wouldn't be so difficult. Dr's tell me I shouldn't be having any symptoms now because Lexapro just "leaves your system". I challenge them to try it if they truly believe that. It DOESN'T just "leave your system", there are side affects that I am still battling with and every special doctor I've gone to see tells me that there "must have been something there before Lexapro" . Ha!!!! Big Fat Lie!!! I didn't have ANY of these symptoms prior to Lexapro. But when I do find a dr. that will consider listening and testing on the neuro transmitters status in my brain - rest assured there will be further action taken against these pharmaceutical companies that claim these drugs are "safe".

Not downplaying folks who are finding success with this, this is only my experience.

If someone is bipolar the ADs can cause severe agitation which I've experienced. Celexa and others did that to me.

I also had a complete Summer of ECT which sent me to the lowest physical and mental states I've ever experienced. I could not go thru that again.

Bottom line is PDOCs don't know a great deal about mood disorders and I believe they lead their patients on. One PDOC lead me on for several yrs and took tens of thousands of $ from me for poor med mgmt and zero psychotherapy. He begged me to stay when I told him I was looking for another PDOC.

Now you are seeing tons of Lawyer commercials on TV for ADs like Paxil, Zoloft regarding birth defects that these drugs can cause.

Just texting here so I remember to come back & finish reading. I'm having a difficult time focusing right now.

yes, I think it is usually quite important to follow the money, agreed