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  #26  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 11:15 AM
anon20140705
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In DBT I am learning about opposite-to-emotion action. On the surface, it may look like "fake it till you make it," but the big difference is, you're not denying your true feelings. For example, if I'm feeling sad and want to choose to act opposite, I might put on upbeat music. But I'm still acknowledging that I'm feeling sad. I'm not telling myself, "Hey, I feel great! I'm happy as a clam! Rock on!"

Similarly, getting up and going to work when you don't want to, staying at the party even though you feel like leaving, etc, are "opposite to emotion" actions. But they are done by choice, not because you're denying how you really feel.
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Curupira

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  #27  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 11:20 AM
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"Fake it until you make it" probably isn't a cure, but there are huge benefits. When I look back at the way I spent the past day, month, or year, I'd much rather have something to show for it. I feel better about myself when I see that I actually did something vs. when I spent the week binge watching Breaking Bad or whatever. When I spend the week doing nothing but surfing the internet, I feel even worse.

I also find that I get stuck in a rut where I don't feel like leaving the house or getting dressed or doing much of anything. If I 'force' myself to do something I don't feel like doing, it does help break me out of that rut. It's just really hard to do sometimes
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  #28  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 11:31 AM
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Hellion Hellion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovebird View Post
In DBT I am learning about opposite-to-emotion action. On the surface, it may look like "fake it till you make it," but the big difference is, you're not denying your true feelings. For example, if I'm feeling sad and want to choose to act opposite, I might put on upbeat music. But I'm still acknowledging that I'm feeling sad. I'm not telling myself, "Hey, I feel great! I'm happy as a clam! Rock on!"

Similarly, getting up and going to work when you don't want to, staying at the party even though you feel like leaving, etc, are "opposite to emotion" actions. But they are done by choice, not because you're denying how you really feel.
I find that when I am feeling severely depressed upbeat music makes me feel worse...sometimes I simply can't listen to music at all, or if I do it has to be kinda dark music. Also for me it ends up not being 'I don't want to' but more 'I can't even if I did want to'. On my good days where the depression is minimal I can more easily motivate myself and actually have energy for things.
Thanks for this!
Curupira
  #29  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 11:53 AM
anon20140705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
I find that when I am feeling severely depressed upbeat music makes me feel worse...sometimes I simply can't listen to music at all, or if I do it has to be kinda dark music. Also for me it ends up not being 'I don't want to' but more 'I can't even if I did want to'. On my good days where the depression is minimal I can more easily motivate myself and actually have energy for things.
"Focus on what works," my DBT therapist likes to say.

A couple of days ago, as I mentioned in class just last night, I was feeling a bit gloomy and put on a playlist full of sad songs to match my mood. I was aware it's supposed to be *opposite* to emotion action, but I consciously chose to listen to the sad music because I wanted to. Note I was merely feeling gloomy, not in the throes of a deep depression, and I didn't necessarily want to change that. I told myself that if the sad music started worsening my mood, and it got unbearable, I'd turn it off and do something else. It didn't get unbearable. In fact, it was pretty cathartic. The DBT therapist seemed OK with this, because the more important thing was me being aware of how I was feeling, and choosing what to do about it rather than acting on impulse. I was in control of the situation, is what matters most.

It turns out, that was a DBT technique too. It was called "observe and describe" the emotion. I was also taking a "non-judgmental stance" by letting myself experience that without telling myself it was unhealthy, or I shouldn't.

I've heard people say they hate sad music because it makes them cry, and my response is, you probably had something in there you needed to cry about, and the music only brought it to the surface. People's opinions differ, but that's mine.
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Curupira
  #30  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 01:42 PM
prabs prabs is offline
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Friends,

I see so many of you saying that it doesn't work for them. I also see some doubting my statement that "Fake it until you BECOME it" doesn't work. I have no issues regarding that. However, I have something more to add here.

Under normal circumstances, the word "fake" has negative meaning attached to it, and unconsciously we accept that meaning as truth. I don't know who wrote the phrase "Fake it until you make it" but my belief is that s/he did it with by taking a bit of poetic liberty and used the words "fake" and "make" so that they rhyme with each other. My belief is that what the author actually meant by the word fake was "PRACTICE".

Now all those who say that faking hasn't worked for them, can they really say that they have PRACTICED whatever they wanted to achieve with all sincerity? I guess not.

Somebody talked about "someone who is mentally ill" faking it to become "non mentally ill". I ask her/him that we are not talking about mentally ills here. For them we have better qualified Doctors and Institutions who would help them. I am talking about PRACTICING (faking) anything in the simplest format to begin with with all sincerity and then challenge what has been said.

If that were not the case people would not practice any games for hours altogether to become winners, or the Pilots practice in simulators before they took charge of those huge Jumbos.

Have fun guys. BECOME it.
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Curupira, HockingPastryChef
  #31  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 02:59 PM
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I know I have put my best effort into things I wanted to achieve, and still failed...but that is largely do to all the mental crap I have to suffer with. Not so sure I quite get the term practice here...I mean how do you practice 'being happy' when you have depression. I can certainly act ok for a while but its not like practicing where the 'skill' gradually improves. I learned how to type fast without looking at the keyboard through practice, and can even type with my eyes closed. But then I had a therapist think I should more or less 'practice' walking up to other kids at school and interacting...but no matter how hard I tried I couldn't do it....its a mix of not knowing what to do/say and being severely afraid of potential rejection, ridicule and such.

it doesn't seem like 'practice' would help that even to this day I can only initiate interaction if its someone I know or its a situation where it is obviously appropriate like to ask the cashier for a pack of cigarettes...and even then I get really nervous.

But yes I am thinking of this in the context of having depression or other mental illness, as it was in the depression thing so my assumption was the question is 'does fake it till you make it work for depression' which I would say maybe for mild depression or if someone who is otherwise mentally healthy gets stuck in a rut...but for more severe cases I feel it can end up being detrimental.
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Curupira
  #32  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 03:26 PM
ResaLock ResaLock is offline
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I would have to say NO! My ex spouse...used to be in AA and sponsored people and chaired meetings. He used to present that all the time. "Fake it til you make it."

I would only have to say it only teaches you to fake things all the way...and you just might get better at it. It grew and grew and everything about him is fake.

Sadly hes a pot head and always fakes being clean and sober. When I was abused by him he was very skilled in faking his way out of everything.
he even fakes emotional expressions and even learned how to fake caring. After a while I just looked at him one day as he faked an emotion and it was the most ridiculous thing I saw. It was pretty scary.

It can actually cause imbalances to your thinking and mind and corrupt it. Just be genuine and start from there. Genuine people are great people.
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anon20140705, Clara22, Curupira
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Curupira
  #33  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovebird View Post
In DBT I am learning about opposite-to-emotion action. On the surface, it may look like "fake it till you make it," but the big difference is, you're not denying your true feelings. For example, if I'm feeling sad and want to choose to act opposite, I might put on upbeat music. But I'm still acknowledging that I'm feeling sad. I'm not telling myself, "Hey, I feel great! I'm happy as a clam! Rock on!"

Similarly, getting up and going to work when you don't want to, staying at the party even though you feel like leaving, etc, are "opposite to emotion" actions. But they are done by choice, not because you're denying how you really feel.
I have never heard of that before. It sounds much more doable. Thank you so much
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  #34  
Old Feb 12, 2014, 08:22 PM
badmouse badmouse is offline
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In my experience - NO. Your brain knows that you are faking it. So all it does is reinforces that you are a liar. Not useful in any way.
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Curupira
  #35  
Old Feb 20, 2014, 10:28 AM
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Rather then that idea. "Fake it..." I like "implement and perfect". The other idea might make me believe I all ready made it when I am not even close. Besides I can not stand lying to myself 😀

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Curupira
  #36  
Old Feb 20, 2014, 11:36 AM
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I think it can work for mild or moderate depression. It has never worked for me in a severe depression. I think the idea is for example if I can force myself to take a walk that the exercise will change my brain so I actually do feel better.

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The "paradox" is only a conflict between reality and your feeling of what reality "ought to be." -- Richard Feynman

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  #37  
Old Feb 20, 2014, 12:43 PM
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I personally think that the phrase is more of a sarcastic way of saying "press on until you persevere", encouraging one to not let anything get in the way of their progress; a way of saying, carry on with what you need to do as if nothing can get in the way & stop you from getting to where you want to be until you finally get to where your going. A way of "blocking out outside inferences that would impede your progress. I don't use the phase in a "literal" sense.
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Curupira
  #38  
Old Feb 20, 2014, 01:50 PM
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My Marketing teacher and I were discussing this the other day. In some situations I think it works. We were discussing it in the sense of adopting supposedly confidence increasing poses. Such as the way you sit and stand. I find if that I feel more confident when I sit/stand in more confident poses. There was a Ted Talk that discussed this, can't recall the name though.
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Curupira
  #39  
Old Feb 20, 2014, 04:56 PM
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HockingPastryChef HockingPastryChef is offline
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I love prabs response!

Also telling yourself the positive outcome in it would help rather than forcing yourself if that is what you are doing. Force gets you no where most of the time. It's like trying to force an object double your weight with more weight weighing you down along with it.

You seem to need more patience and time to help that desire. That is when you will slowly have the weight lifted off and then will be able to push the object. Look in a positive direction in that desire. Look at all the paths it would take you if you accept it. It takes patience to let old habits to go away. Like the habit of letting go of the desire that you feel you need. Taking short cuts most of the time make the situation worse; which is the desire of wanting it NOW. That won't happen!
  #40  
Old Feb 20, 2014, 07:14 PM
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Akua Akua is offline
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In my experience, it doesn't work...I've tried exercising (I used to exercise 5X a day) and just end up feeling worse to make me not want to do it even more. I wish there was a solution for this, without meds.
  #41  
Old Feb 20, 2014, 11:44 PM
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snarkydaddy snarkydaddy is offline
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I agree... endeavor to persevere

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alone & confused View Post
I personally think that the phrase is more of a sarcastic way of saying "press on until you persevere", encouraging one to not let anything get in the way of their progress; a way of saying, carry on with what you need to do as if nothing can get in the way & stop you from getting to where you want to be until you finally get to where your going. A way of "blocking out outside inferences that would impede your progress. I don't use the phase in a "literal" sense.
  #42  
Old Feb 20, 2014, 11:57 PM
recentdiscovery recentdiscovery is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovebird View Post
In DBT I am learning about opposite-to-emotion action. On the surface, it may look like "fake it till you make it," but the big difference is, you're not denying your true feelings. For example, if I'm feeling sad and want to choose to act opposite, I might put on upbeat music. But I'm still acknowledging that I'm feeling sad. I'm not telling myself, "Hey, I feel great! I'm happy as a clam! Rock on!"

Similarly, getting up and going to work when you don't want to, staying at the party even though you feel like leaving, etc, are "opposite to emotion" actions. But they are done by choice, not because you're denying how you really feel.
This for me. When I started therapy about a month ago I could barely get out of the house for absolutely no reason. I force myself to be out of the house as much as possible now by direction of my T and now feel pretty comfy most days about doing whatever may come along, even if I just want to be home in bed. I haven't called out of work once even though i've wanted to many days, just forcing myself to go, it gradually got easier for me.

Definitely not the end-all tactic. I still have my days where I just want to run away to I don't know where but can't even leave my room... cue the circle of madness

Fake it has been helpful in that sense for me, I also do it with music when i'm driving and feeling particularly crappy. Doesn't change much except i'm not focusing on the bad stuff for a second. Coincidentally i'm doing that as I type this, just with the words and keyboard sounds
  #43  
Old Feb 21, 2014, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Curupira View Post
Multiple therapists/ people have told me to do this. I have no interest in doing anything but I am going through the motions. I read everyday,but I can't get lost in the story like I used to. Instead I have to force myself to finish a chapter. I loved to cook and bake but my creativity to create new recipes is gone.

So... does this going through the motions ever work? If you did it how long did it take for the enjoyment to return? And if it doesn't why do the docs keep telling me this is a good idea.
I can speak for myself as a person who has a hard time feeling joy, look we even picked the same avatar we are working on emotional regulation in dialectic behavior therapy and our assignment this week is to keep an adult pleasant events journal.
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