How science has proven we are lesser/weaker people with worthless lives

I am just presenting the harsh truth here. I am tired of people telling me that I am somehow a better person or a strong person for my suffering of depression and anhedonia (emotional numbness) when I know that I am truly not. I am unable to experience any good feelings whatsoever (whether they be feelings of love, compassion, happiness, etc.). So here is the truth I wish to tell:

The words "more" and "less" are words that have an objective meaning in science. If you gain muscle strength from working out, then it's obvious you have more muscle strength. If you lose muscle strength from not working out, then you obviously have less muscle strength. Therefore, since who you are as a person is all your conscious brain functions, if you were to lose any one of these functions (such as your ability to experience pleasure due to depression or emotional numbness), then that would make you a lesser person compared to who you were before with at least more conscious brain functioning and in comparison to others who do have more conscious brain functioning. But since who you are as a person is only your conscious brain functioning and not your body, having a physical disability would not make you a lesser person. But as long as your brain is unable to fully make up for that loss of pleasure in other conscious brain functions, then you will remain as the lesser person. There are such people whose brains cannot fully make up for such losses because, as I've explained before, everyone is different and not everyone's brains will be able to fully make up for these losses. So these are the types of people who would remain the lesser people. Also, if what I'm saying is right about being more of a person through living a nicer and happier life, then we would still be the lesser people compared to who we would be through living nicer and happier lives and compared to those people who do live nicer and happier lives even if our brains do fully make up for any losses in our conscious. Even if our brains do go beyond fully making up for these losses, we would still be the lesser people as opposed to living a nicer and happier life of less losses, less suffering, and less despair. Even people who are born with less conscious brain functions would still be the lesser people in terms of science compared to others who have more conscious brain functioning and compared to who this person would be with more conscious brain functioning. To somehow say that we are either still fully human or better human beings despite these losses would be false and irrational in terms of science because there is nothing beyond science. It doesn't matter how much value/worth you have towards yourself and others despite these losses, you all would still be the lesser people as a result of these losses.

I believe in evolution and that our sole purpose is to survive. In other words, the phrase "survival of the fittest" is our motto in life and is our only purpose in living. Those with anhedonia and depression as well as other major problems are the most unfit for survival (the weakest) while those with nice happy lives are the most fit for survival (the strongest) and that is what makes these happy people superior. We are nothing special or strong for having suffered and for moving forward in life despite our suffering because we would still be unfit for survival (weak). Strong and weak are also words that have an objective meaning in science. Strong (in terms of science) is when you gain something. For example, if you are strong from working out, that would mean you have gained muscles. Weak would then be the opposite. So it's as simple as losing a part of you through depression or anhedonia (which would be your pleasure and/or other emotions) would make you weaker. But any other meaning we give to words such as "strong" or "weak" besides what they are in terms of science, those types of meanings would be irrational and false since there is nothing beyond science. Also, any gains we obtain from suffering and despair are gains we can achieve just as good (and even better) through living nice happy lives and that is what makes us lesser and weak compared to who we would be through living nice happy lives and in comparison to those who do live nicer and happier lives.

Now us finding worth and value in things in terms of science is where our brains have strong connections to certain ideas and such. For example, if you were to find great worth and value in gaining intelligence, then that would mean that your neurons have strong connections to other groups of neurons responsible for the idea of gaining intelligence. But, of course, if you were to then have no value or worth in gaining intelligence and instead have value and worth in seeking pleasure, that would mean that your brain has been rewired to have strong connections to the idea of seeking pleasure instead. It's this strength (energy) of connection that defines how much value and worth things have to us in life. So to say something such as that your intelligence has more value and worth than all other parts of your brain combined would be false because all those other parts, when combined, all add up to a greater amount of strength (energy) with much more neurons and connections as opposed to the amount of strength (energy) with all of the neurons and connections responsible for your value and worth towards intelligence.

Now regardless of how much value and worth you have towards something, depression is what gives your life less worth because if you were to have anhedonia and feel depressed about having it, then that would mean that you have some value and worth towards experiencing pleasure. Otherwise, if you didn't have any value or worth towards experiencing pleasure, then you wouldn't even feel depressed about it at all. So since something in your life of value and worth (your pleasure) has been taken away due to your anhedonia, that would make your life have less worth as long as you are depressed about it. Your brain may have strong value and worth (connections and such) towards the idea of other things in life, but as long as the value and worth you have towards experiencing pleasure is unfulfilled, your life would be of less value/worth as long as you are depressed about your inability to experience pleasure. But if you are not depressed about it, then there can be 2 things going on here: 1.) You have found full value towards other things in life or 2.) You no longer have any sense of value or worth towards anything and you are just now living for no reason. There are people who are forever depressed about their depression or anhedonia (emotional numbness). For these types of people and depending on their severity and how chronic their depression is, these would be the people with truly worthless lives.

Finally, knowing what it's like to suffer is not necessary in becoming a more compassionate person compared to how compassionate you would be through living a nicer and happier life. For example, different people have different capacities to experience compassion. A person who knows what it's like to suffer might very well have a lot of compassion. But a person who does not know what it's like to suffer could have even more compassion just because this person's mind has a natural greater capacity to experience compassion. Or it could be because this person just simply changed his/her attitude. Therefore, it is not necessary to suffer and you can have more empathy, compassion, be more caring, and help even more people through living a nicer and happier life.

No, I haven't read your post yet, but I'm going to say that we are more because of what we are.

We look and SEE, which average people do not do.

I am just presenting the harsh truth here. I am tired of people telling me that I am somehow a better person or a strong person for my suffering of depression and anhedonia (emotional numbness) when I know that I am truly not.

You seem to have gone to an awful lot of trouble to convince yourself of something that is wrong. When people take this much trouble I suspect that they know they are wrong and are trying to rationalise their feeling.

Also I did not see much science in your post.

If you want to invoke evolution you might consider why the capacity for mental illness has persisted. Some people have commented that it might be related to our capacity to care or to love.

I have severe chronic anhedonia (emotional numbness) and I am unable to experience any feelings of love or caring towards others.

Science does not lead to 100% fact. Sure it is, generally speaking, based on objective tangibles and intends to narrow down Extraneous Variables... but it is those variables that result in advances and changes to how circumstances like MH are dealt with.

50 years ago, people were still being lobotomised for various conditions. Now this was during the same time that space travel was kicking off... so science was not set in the stone ages... but at that time it seemed like a valid way to help people. Thankfully, advances in science have moved on since then as a couple of my real life friends would not be the amazing people they are today if that was not the case.

MH does not define anyone (including yourself) as a lesser person. How can that even be defined anyway? MH is just a factor in what makes us a person... just like your ability to speak, write, do math... be creative, spatial awareness, sense of smell etc etc etc. Takes all sorts to make the world go round and to contrast and compare on vicious circle arguments is just going to make your head hurt imo.

I can appreciate that you are stuck in a rut with this line of thinking and I can only imagine how difficult it is going to be to break that cycle... you do come across as someone who is pretty bright and analytical though, so maybe start breaking things down into lists of positives and negatives... you may be unable to 'experience any feelings of love or care' but contrast that with something you are able to do.

I slowly/surely developed the same as I got more and more depressed. My tablets have helped stop this and begin to reverse the process. I trust you are getting help?

That is not science. That is using extraordinary energy to be self-defeating and self-sabotaging.

Wow!

Just Wow!

It must suck to be feeling and believing all that.

Of course I'm certain we've all been there at one time or the other ...

I know I have!

Yet, somehow I continue to survive it and move along with my life.

I hope you do too ...

Patient, Gentle & Kind ... One Day At A Time!

I dont think having depression has made me less of a person. I think it has made me realise that anyone can get depressed and this has made me more sensitive to other peoples emotions.

Ok you have convinced me.

Now what?

I am a lesser defective person for having depression.

What am I to do about it?

I am pretty sure it has made me less of a person and possibly prevented me from fulfilling some of my potential - I will never know and there is no changing what is past. But dwelling on it will certainly reduce my future chances.

If you are implying to accept your loss of pleasure and instead have value towards other things in life and move on, pleasure to me is the greatest thing in my life and I will never accept having lost that. Also, if I or anyone else were to abandon their pleasure and live for other things in life instead, that would make us lesser people.

A true emotionally sensitive human being is someone who has both immense value towards his/her own feelings of pleasure as well as the pleasure of others. To instead have no value towards pleasure in general at all (both yours and others) and instead find value in other things in life (or even value towards life itself for that matter), you would truly be the lesser person who has no part in the title of an "emotionally sensitive human being" whatsoever. You would not only demean yourself for abandoning the greatest aspect of you as a person (which is your pleasure), but you would also be demeaning of others by, for example, telling other people to abandon their value of pleasure in general and to find greater things in life as well as to tell these people to tell others this same message. This would be truly offensive and demeaning of someone with depression or anhedonia who is on the brink of suicide who feels his/her life is basically no longer worth living without his/her pleasure and just might drive him/her to commit suicide or homicide. Also, "emotionally sensitive" means having high emotional sensitivity to things in life due to your immense value towards feelings of love, pleasure, and other good feelings. For example, if someone is emotionally sensitive in terms of their love, then this person would easily feel love and would also experience it very strongly due to their immense value towards these feelings. But having an emotionally sensitive personality would mean that you have a personality that has immense value towards these feelings that would enable you to easily experience emotions as well as experience these emotions strongly. So even though I have anhedonia and am unable to experience any emotions, I do have an emotionally sensitive personality.

I wasn't implying anything and you didn't answer the question.

I am a lesser human being, genetically defective, because I have lost the ability to experience pleasure due to depression.

The question is what should I do about that fact?

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I could see how that would be irritating. Years ago my dad told me I should write a book about my setbacks - like they somehow made my life interesting. I thought that was pretty tone-deaf...as if anyone would want to read about a man's humiliations and failures without redemption. I only found out later how deaf he really was/is to depression and I agree he's the better man for it.

Now setting everything I've said in this topic aside, I do view pleasure as the greatest thing in life to me based on my own personal experience of this emotion. Therefore, what I have written here I think is very inspirational and would inspire people to avoid suffering and despair as much as possible since there is nothing good about it and will only make you inferior and your lives of less worth. It also inspires people to never give up on trying to recover their pleasure since it is the only greatest aspect of you as a human being and to give up on it and find greater value in other things in life would truly make you an utterly inferior human being. If I was someone who was suffering from cancer in a hospital bed in addition to my depression/anhedonia, this would be my inspirational message to the world. It will also inspire people to find better treatments and cures because knowing just how pointless and non-beneficial depression/anhedonia are compared to living a nice happy life would really drive people to try and find better treatments and such.

Now since feelings of love and pleasure feel like the greatest things to me in life and that nothing else in life compares (other than the feelings of love and pleasure that others possess), this is what makes these feelings the greatest things in life and is what makes everything else in life virtually nothing in comparison. These feelings may be nothing more than science and brain chemistry which makes them not all that special and great in terms of science. But there is a big difference between how nonspecial and ungreat these feelings are in terms of science and how special and great they are to us based on our own personal experience of these feelings. But if your own personal experience in life somehow tells you that these feelings are not that great or not even great at all for that matter and that other things in life have greater value, then you obviously have not experienced these feelings nearly as profound or meaningful as I have to know that they are the greatest things in life. Since your experience of these feelings is not nearly as profound or meaningful as mine, that would make you a lesser being who would be some steps down from my status as a superior human being and would make you some steps towards being an inferior biological robot. But, of course, I am the inferior biological robot now since I can no longer have any such pleasurable experiences whatsoever due to my depression and severe chronic anhedonia. But, of course, you should still have value towards the pleasure that is lost in people with depression or anhedonia. I would still have compassion and such towards these people despite knowing that they are inferior biological robots.

Thanks so much for taking the trouble to write this - it is all clear now.

If you view yourself as lesser being, that is tragic and misguided and sad.

Calling others lesser beings for disagreeing with you, being depressed or not being pleasure driven, is however insulting.

What do you want to hear here?

These types of people who value other things in life over pleasure drive people with depression/anhedonia to commit suicide or homicide since these depressed people have lost something that made their lives worth living and all those other people who have less value towards pleasure just tell them to just accept it and move on in life. Also, as I've just explained in the previous post I just made, this is an inspiring message I wish to give to the world. This is what I've learned through my depression/anhedonia and is an inspiring story I wish to share.

I'll not quibble on you overlooking my first post heh, but I am curious on what you are trying to achieve by regurgitating this line of thinking? Are you looking for support or are you lecturing on some dogma that you've got on recurring loop in your mind?

I'm not saying this to insult nor belittle you... I (and I think others here) are curious on what you overall intent is? I'd say that the support side of things in this particular part of the board has a strong community who are more than willing to challenge your arguments if that is what you are after... but it will be a two way street... there has to be some give within yourself to want to break this cycle too (or at least that's what it appears to be).

On a personal level I have gone through the numb and unfeeling side of depression... I've also been on the anxiety side where being a 'biological robot' would be a lovely change to having my emotions ripping me to shreds. I suppose I may be fortunate that my MH is a bit chaotic like that. I don't agree that when I was numb and unfeeling that that made me inferior... if anything I'd say that it was the anxiety that makes me less functional... but even then, 'inferior?' no... it's just a state of being.

So while I am in this state of inferior, worthless, emotionless, robotic, anhedodinia waiting for an inspired human to come up with a cure, what should I do in the mean time?

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I don't feel inspired. In fact, this is the most depressing thing I read lately. Nothing inspiring about using your intelligence against yourself. You are not the first one who done it either. I've been there before. I still do it at times. It's not inspiring, it's self-destructive.
Nothing inspiring about obsessing about "pleasure" to the degree you eliminate all pleasure you might have from your life.
And nothing at all inspiring about calling depressed people and non-hedonistic people "lesser beings" and pretending there is some science about it.

And sorry, but nobody is driving depressed people to suicide, especially not people who try to help them to find some light. And driving people to homicide? I am starting to get scared here.

And as for "losing something that makes life worth living".......... don't you think I lost things? Don't you think everybody did lose something? There are people who lose loved ones and they do moved on, even if they are little sadder afterwards. There are people who lost everything and yet managed to start again. Only end of the world would be the end of the world. Other things can be overcome. Loses don't make you less of a being. Pain doesn't make you lesser being. There is no logic calling a person who managed to overcome a lesser being.

I think it is a given that all humans want to live a happy, joyous, meaningful lives filled with purpose and love. Duh. Humans have been trying to eliminate hardship and suffering for millennia. The fact of the matter is suffering exists and always has. I doubt we can eliminate it. A fact of life we have to deal with. All humans suffer to some degree of other. Does that make them inferior?

What if in the same year I experience optimum pleasure for some months and then go some months in total anhedonia. Am I a godlike superior human being for experiencing pleasure? Or am I an inferior robot for experiencing no pleasure? What does the fact that I experience both say about my worth as a human being?

Sometimes our analytical abilities get us into trouble. I believe that as people we have absolute value, regardless of how many arms and legs we have lost and what feelings we are able or not able to feel right now. I do not believe you are a better or stronger person because you are suffering (it sounds rather strange to think of anhedonia as suffering, doesn't it?); I believe you deserve much better, that "better" can happen for you; and that that is a more useful way to look at it than that you are defective.

Hah, I wonder about that too.

Still, I value my capability to sob over people of Lugansk more than I value my capability to enjoy cupful of Haagen Dazs icecream in almost animalistic manner.

Ability to enjoy the good stuff is important, but one should be able to enjoy the good moments even in the darktimes. Than it is a survival mechanism. But pure hedonism? That is mere symptom of the times.