I never really did have a chance, did I?

Some of you know that I applied to doctoral programs in clinical psychology this year, and that I had been rejected (very quickly) by one of those universities, but the others were very late responding. The rejection letters from the other two arrived on Friday and Saturday, and I had realized that was what it was going to be a long time ago, but I guess now it is starting to hit me.

Yes, I can apply again next year, and I need to apply to more programs to improve my chances, and I'll be a better candidate next year because I have gotten good grades this year, and a little more experience, and probably also people who may be better references. But will it ever be enough?

One of the people I asked to recommend me is my (former) T. He offered, and it didn't seem like that would be a problem, and since I had been out of school for 12 years and didn't really try to network with the psychology department back then anyway (it was my second major - I was going into speech pathology, but they turned me down), I really didn't have many options for references. But one of the schools uses a recomendation form and I didn't see the questions on it (such as "rate the applicant's emotional stability," etc.) until after selecting my references. When I saw that, I realized that there is no way that he could have rated me very well, considering that I had just barely been through another depressive episode and we had been talking about suicide and the possibility that I was actually bipolar. I was also suspicious because I had asked him to give me a copy of what he wrote, and he said that was fine, but he didn't and when I asked again he said oh, it was just a form he had to fill out.

Now apparently he and my husband have been talking about me again, and my husband asked if I was going to apply to that particular school again, and whether they keep old applications and might look back at them, and said that next time I probably should use different references because with questions about emotional stability, I really didn't come off very well.

Without his encouragement, I never would have tried to or thought I even had a chance at getting into graduate school. I was rejected before for speech pathology, and that was devastating, and I was worried about what it would do to me if I just got rejected again. He knew how worried I was about that and told me that I would get in. Later on he told me husband that I would get in somewhere, if I was persistent enough in continuing to apply, but where and when are questions nobody could answer.

I wish that people would talk to me instead of about me.

Other people tell me to keep my hopes up and keep trying, but I sense that once they know that I've had issues with depression, they are just being polite. They don't want me to think that they are discriminating against me on that basis, and everyone will find some other excuse (my academic record isn't perfect, or my experience isn't enough, or someone else was just more qualified). Professionals in this field are coming out with books in which they confess their own struggles, and even demonstrate how that has given them understanding of these problems and insight into how to help others. They are brilliant people whose contributions are significant and get due acknowlegement. But the difference between them and me is that their difficulties were not discovered or disclosed to others until after they had their degrees and were established in a career.

I'm able to do this. I have never let depression be an excuse, or asked for any special accomodations because of it. I do my work and get it in on time. Sometimes it might turn out better if I hadn't had to struggle as much that week when I had to do it, but I do get it in, and whatever I have accomplished represents what I am capable of even with or despite my limitations. If the limitations were removed, I could do even better, but my level of performance isn't too bad as it is. I was still an honor student back then, and I still pulled off straight A's for the whole year this year. But it will never be good enough, because twice as much is expected of me in order to prove myself, because sometimes it takes me twice the effort or more to do what would be more than good enough for anyone else, making 4 times the effort my true requirement. Do I have that in me?

If only I had known that I never would have been given a chance. I would have been better off not taking this road. All I have to show for it is student loan debt, and I didn't get far enough to qualify to be employable.

Sorry about the whine. Cheese, anyone? How about just some chocolate?


<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

I am so very sorry, Wendy. I truly think that with your intelligence, dedication and empathy you would make a great therapist. This sort of discrimination makes me very angry, especially as there are so many therapists, in the UK at least, that are barely competent, at best I know for a fact that you would do a great job, if they gave you a chance! Maybe you could try getting into a related field like counselling? Or are the same prejudices present there? (It wouldn't surprise me .....)
(I have a friend in the UK who is training to be a counsellor, and he has mental health problems, but he has only taken a one year course so far)

Grrrrrrrr!!!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Love,
Fuzzy

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Fuzzy }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Thanks for the hug. I needed that, and I very much appreciate the vote of confidence. I still am going to try again next year - I would hate myself if I quit now, but I don't know if anyone will give me a chance. To answer your question, clinical seems to be the hardest to get into because it is what more people seem to want, and I'll probably apply in counseling also next year even though I am really more interested in clinical. In some departments it is the exact same program (one that I applied to is combined clinical/counseling/school psychology), and the end result is really about equivalent, and can lead to the exact same kind of work. There really is no reason for the attitudes to be any different though, especially since I think those attitudes exist in all fields, not just the social sciences, although they seem to be more attuned to it. It was the same thing that kept me out of the speech pathology program - I was better qualified than a lot of people from my class who got in (I was among the top of the class, yet was one of only a few who were turned down for the master's program). Another option that has been suggested to me was to apply in social work or another related field where therapists are licensed with a master's degree. But the same prejudices exist there too. In fact, one MSW program I looked at requires that applicants sign a statement that they are free of any mental or emotional issues that might affect their work with clients. I'm not sure that I could even sign that statement.
Grrrrr!
Wendy

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wendy}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

You know how exceptionally bright I think you are. This is a setback, yes, but one that you can overcome with perseverance and determination.

Don't give up your dream because of some people's messed up prejudices. You will be asset in your field - I have my couch ready to go.......

Please try not to be discouraged for long. You will succeed, because you have it in you to do so.

xoxoxoxox

Mary Alice

so sorry wendy. I can relate morethan you know,more than I want to! I hope you know you aren't alone in how you feel and that you remember that we know you are terrific!

Hi Rap,

Gosh, I didn't you were caught in sush a dilemn...

Well, dunno your age, but if you're, say, in the 20's, well maybe it would be nice for you to have a break from it all, leave it there for a while and do some other things.

Have you thought about it ?

Take care Rap,

Starbuck



Born in 1963 of French mom and Canadian dad. Majors in History and Theology. Masters in Sociology.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mary Alice}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Thank-you. I'm not ready to give up yet, but it is frustrating and disappointing. I want to be there already! Not sitting around waiting for another year. I have stuff to do though.


<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

((((((((((((((((((atrester))))))))))))))))))))))

Thank-you. That means a lot to me.

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

Hi Starbuck,

I appreciate your reply. Thank-you very much for your ideas. Actually, I've been 29 for the last 5 years , and was out of school for 12 years before going back last year. I had my B.A. finished, but they didn't award it then due to a technical issue I didn't resolve, so I'll actually get my diploma this summer. I'll be in the 40's by the time I can possibly finish a doctoral program, and that's obnoxious. Even though the delay is frustrating and I feel like I'm temporarily up against a brick wall, there were things I wanted to do and couldn't this year due to being overwhelmed with the demands of being a full-time student again, so it's probably working out right afterall. Even if I don't like it entirely.

Take Care!

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

Hey Rap,

Ok I get it, well it's a nice challenge you have there. I had some difficulty because of my mood swings, but still graduated nicely.

I was in my mid-thirties, then.

I don't work as of now because of depression and anxiety.

Bye & Take care,

Starbuck



Born in 1963 of French mom and Canadian dad. Majors in History and Theology. Masters in Sociology.

Wendy,

I'm sorry hun, I know this must hurt. I know you've worked so very, very hard. All of us here are proud of you. You are a kind, caring, and wonderfully intelligent woman. I count you among the people I am blessed to know.

I hope you can take some time for yourself, let this hurt go, and give it another shot. I can't help but believe that there has to be someone out there willing to give someone with your drive, determination, and intelligence a chance to prove themself. What a sad place this world would be without giving people like you and I a chance to contribute our minds to it, don't you think?

In the meantime, know that you are loved by many here, and that we support you in whatever you decide, OK?

((((((((((Wendy))))))))))

Greg

I must say this is a bummer, but do not give up, see what other avenues you can take.
Also do not be hard on yourself, maybe you have taken on too much at once, but do not give up on your dreams, don't let anyone tell you you aren't capable, etc.
Please take care, you have many great qualities about you

DE

In giving advice seek to help, not please your friend
SOLON

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Greg}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I bet that you don't realize how much it means to me to be so well thought of by you. You are a keeper yourself. Thanks so incredibly much for your support.

Wendy

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

Thanks for believing in me, DE.
Take Care Yourself,
Wendy


<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>