Mad in america

But over the long haul I am not sure if that's even true...because I would have to take the psych meds every day while with the herbs it's as needed. I took passion flower and valerian capsules this week, but only for two days. I worked it out and it is about two cents per capsule as I have found places to get the herbs at a discount. I only buy from one company. Some say the downside is that herbs aren't regulated, but I have never had any problems.

But what patient is going to spend some of their precious 15 minutes with the pdoc challenging the pdoc? I consider myself very, very lucky. Thank you, Psych Central!!!

I did share my thoughts and my health care practitioners were aware of my position - this was a long time ago now. I am taking Nortryptline for depression - 300mg a day no less plus Ritalin as a augmentation. It is easily the best combination I have used and my mood is fairly good despite most of my life collapsing around me ... I have a persistent depressive disorder and have accepted that it is not going to just go away. As for sides, well maybe I am comparing it what drugs have done to me previously. I could list a few but to give you an idea ... I was on a high dose of pain medications ... very high dose and coming off that was like dying. It took me 6 months to recover. I lost 20kg which is 44lb, I was vomiting regularly for the first 2 weeks such that I was put on a drip in hospital. I don't know how it is possible to feel worse. Even now I have permanent side effects such as tinnitus and it seems I will never enjoy a proper sexual function. But all of this does not compare to depression.

I can only share my experience. I am not saying it somehow cancels or trumps another members. We all take our own journey. But I am interested in where people see such promotion of drugs. I don't encounter it, maybe someone will explain where I would encounter it? It could be just that there is no direct to consumer advertising here. I had barely heard of antidepressant medication until I was prescribed it.

There was a time that I was against medications except as a last resort and all for a complete health and lifestyle approach. I really was convinced it would be enough not only for me but for most people. I was convinced that since I had not tried alternatives (and had not been aware of them) and that if I got all aspects of my life together it would be enough. It is like when you learn something new it is exciting and you want to tell everyone how good it is. I felt that way about the power of exercise, diet and other natural approaches. It might be the case for many people that they can function well and live a happy life this way but it ended badly for me.

I thought I had outgrown my social anxiety and that I had managed to form social connections, along with other things that impact mood such as exercise and sleep and good diet. I still believe they are important especially relationships and I know how hard life is when you have a difficult boss or someone else determined to make your life hard. And I have used supplements and I still take some regularly and for some circumstances. For example, I take omega 3. I also run several liver supplements at times because I have had elevated liver enzymes and my blood tests has proven (at least enough for me) that they work. Calcium d glucurate has proven effective for elevated bilirubin levels. I still think we need to have some kind of evidence that something works, it is far too easy to convince yourself of something, to in effect fool yourself.

Thank you for sharing. I am fairly convinced I will never be able to escape the life stress that promotes my depression and anxiety, but I am loathe to say n-e-v-e-r. I think mental illness just takes a toll over the course of a lifetime. I never considered that I had an intractable personality disorder, but maybe I do. The most I ever had as a diagnosis was adjustment disorder, after my divorce. However, I am just ultra-sensitive to chemicals. I have only been doing full holistic for six months...not very long. I also quit smoking a year ago this month. I need to give my treatment plan more time. What I really wanted was a benzodiazepine for anxiety and my pdoc refused, even though I have used them successfully and without side effects in the past. I came on Psych Central raging about this, but I have since settled down. My pdoc said she would never consider prescribing them, so to hell with the whole psych drug thing, I hate that feeling of having no control, which I now have with my own personalized program.

You are a lightweight. Be lame elsewhere ... run along now

^^hahahaha Agreed. And all pee and wind.

dear dawa---I am interested in what you are saying about benzos....I have a very long history of depression and panic....valium was a key to my stability while I was working...I never took more than prescribed....now that I am retired I no longer take valium on a regular basis....my last dose of 5mg was in December 2015..and I do not have dementia....benzos are very very effective....but are dangerous if you take too much...doctors are making a mistake not using them...but my doctor uses them....he has been around and is experienced...

black box warning for anti-depressants------------I am concerned with young people...I hear that there is a danger of suicide ....especially at the very beginning of treatment....I think we need to know this....I think we need to discuss this....what do the studies show....why would the fda have such a warning...this is scary...

and I want to be very clear about my position on drugs....I love drugs...I love my celexa...I love my valium...these drugs have helped me big time...but I am now lowering my dose of celexa...and the valium I take every so often..they help me with my depression and panic....but I no longer need the valium all the time...only every couple of months...I am using lifestyle changes which have helped me a lot...I also talk a lot to other people about my troubles...I used to hide...but that was a big mistake...thank you all for your comments here...but I do not like the mean comments that come out some times...

The doctor who prescribed benzos for me since has since retired, and he was my endocrinologist. Had I done my homework and been informed I would have challenged him on the practice of prescribing me benzos over a long period of time without any kind of monitoring. Because the instructions that come with benzos expressly says that they are for short term use. This isn't something new. This has always been a warning with this drug, but doctors have blatantly ignored it, and so then does the patient, trusting that the doctor knows best.

People often experience increases in anxiety after benzo cessation, not because they had unknowingly become addicted, but often simply because learning how to manage anxiety cannot take place while regularly dousing the brain with benzos. I have a suspicion that my present anxiety is the result of benzo cessation (even though it has been over a year since I took a benzo) as well as quitting smoking.

Cutting edge behavioral treatment that eliminates the use of psych drugs entails going into the anxiety while it is "hot" or activated, and doing something different behaviorally. This retrains the brain, by unhinging the immediate fear response, and replacing it with a more appropriate response that actually can reduce anxiety on the spot. Six months ago I was waking up with panic attacks...something I had never experienced. I eliminated them 100% by retraining my brain. Had I a benzo on hand I would have probably popped it. Instead I found new ways to respond. I had to do a lot of homework...a lot of reading and research. I have used mindfulness, CBT, movement, meditation...and the herb passion flower, which activates GABA receptors the same as a benzo, but passion flower is lightweight compared with a benzo, and is completely natural. Best of all, I don't need a doctor to prescribe passion flower, or tell me how to use it. How I use it is in my control.

Are doctors interested in teaching us how to retrain our brains after they abruptly stop these medications, or retire, leaving us without a prescription and in a lurch? I think not.

How much easier it is for them to just keep writing out that prescription, and to keep renewing it, without a thought as to how we are to live when eventually another doctor down the line refuses to prescribe us a benzo. This is a cruel story. It doesn't portray our doctors as "nice" but rather, it portrays them as irresponsible.

Once again I applaud Psych Central for giving me the confidence to find anxiety management tools that I never have to give up.

I thought my endocrinologist was a kind and good doctor, but he retired to the golf course while my benzo prescription run out, leaving me in a lurch. Thank goodness I wasn't physically addicted, but I really need to admit I was psychologically dependent. I did not have any new ways for dealing with my anxiety put into place. That I managed to quit smoking without the help of benzos is a near miracle.

Our healers should be helping us learn and grow. As the numbers of those dependent on psych drugs increases, there will come a time when all of this is going to reach a global crisis point. Benzos cannot be safely prescribed to the older patient because of the danger of falls, and cognitive impairment. So we shall see what happens to all the boomers when age forces them to give up their benzos.

I haven't given up my benzos....and I am 84 yo and doing ok without falls or dementia...I use my valium ...I don't abuse it....I did do some cognitive behavioral therapy but was never able to give up the valium...I was on 5 mg twice a day....it was very hard coming off chronic benzo use....but stopping smoking would be harder...I personally would take my benzos for depression instead of abilify...an anti-psychotic...my last valium was 5 mg
December 8th 2015...not bad....I also use some of that CBT...I have survived to tell my story without BS

"it was very hard coming off chronic benzo use"

Doesn't that tell a story? I am happy you have not experienced falls or dementia, but I have a question. Why do you know the exact date you took your last benzo? It just seems strange that you have to monitor it that closely. And you aren't the first person to respond this way.

I would also want to know who decided your benzo use was chronic, how that was allowed to happen, why it happened etc.

I might add that your story includes the information that you have access to this drug. What I am saying is that in my case I just abruptly had to discontinue taking the drug when my prescription ran out and my new doctor would not prescribe this drug. I had not anticipated that at one point I took my last diazepam forever. I wasn't psychologically prepared. I also wasn't going to start shopping around for a doctor to prescribe benzos, in desperation.

I am sure others have had the experience of a doctor treating benzos like a "dirty" drug. Something the patient should not be asking for.

That was my experience. It wasn't positive. I am happy I have moved on.

It is very difficult to learn to deal with and manage anxiety without psych drugs. I think it takes real commitment, and a lot of time and patience, and it is often painful. I didn't really want to take this path...but as I moved forward this is where I found myself. I live where pot is legal and today I could very easily go out and purchase a supply of regulated "medical marijuana," and immediately reduce my anxiety. I could also buy a nice bottle of red wine. Or I could take a bike ride, practice some yoga, play my guitar, or call someone.

On a scale of 1 to 10 (10 being the most painful) when my anxiety reaches a 5 it is time to do something. In the past that would have been popping a benzo. Now I take a quick hot bath, make a cup of tea, go out and catch some sunlight. That's what I call retraining the brain.

I am not saying one way or another is better, but I tend now to not like anything with the potential for me to become addicted or psychologically dependent.

my experience is with valium...I know this drug...its mechanism of action is well known...
for 20 years(1976 to 1996) while I was working I took valium 5 mg twice a day like clockwork...I never went above the prescribed amount....it was a lifesaver....I also took an ssri with it...I was very dependent on it and withdrawal was tough....I keep records of what drugs I take... I keep a log book....I am happy with how I handled my life considering how awful it was....I survived....actually I have more questions about the antidepressants ....they have been the big problem for me

I think you made a very good point here. When you say you are happy with how you handled your life and survived, I think that is a really great statement of self-affirmation. So many of us here have big life stressors. So I am with you on this one. I have handled huge life stresses. I always seem to get through the tough times. I think it is good you have highlighted how brave and courageous so many people who visit Psych Central are. It is true! I hope someone comes forward to discuss questions you have about antidepressants.

we here on psych central are the ones with courage and guts....it is unbelievable the suffering that people go through and come out as survivors...fuzzy is a good example

Hi, Turtle - are your questions about antidpressants specific to you or more generalized? I guess I mean to ask what questions are they? It could help us respond.

Discounted prices on herbs . . . was this locally or online, if you don't mind me asking?

onward---I would like to be off my 10 mg of celexa that I take each morning...I have tried fast ...I have tried slow....I have tried unbelievably slow.. after stopping I do really good with more life and emotion...but after about 2-3 months I become terrified....so I go back on and after about a week things are back to usual...I just don't trust what anyone is saying ....a very long time ago I was told that my depression was going to be a lifetime thing...I am not sure about this...I just don't trust these anti-depressants....I trust my valium...I know about that drug and what it does...I trust it and I know its dangers....

Local. I live in a town that is known for holistic healing (kind of a mecca for it) and so the stores seem to be stocking more herbs at competitive prices. Have seen a real upswing in availability and sales. The three I mainly use are Passion flower, Valerian, and Rhodiola. I stay away from combinations.

It is interesting that you have more trouble coming off Celexa than Valium, especially given the very long term use. I know it is not uncommon to feel crappy coming off antidepressants yet I would guess that more people would rate Valium harder than SSRI'S or SSRNI's. Can you give us more detail on your experience coming off valium? What were the withdrawl symptoms? Were you able to sleep? I have never experienced withdrawal from benzo's but I have used quite a few antidepressants without much problem coming off.

I can only say about valium....my withdrawal was back in 2009... over 20 years of chronic valium use...it was a very valuable drug for me...I went off very slowly...I didn't have a seizure...my work was over...I was retired....the extreme stress of work was over....it was not a comfortable withdrawal...but I am happy for me to have had valium available...

anti-depressants essentially just dumbed me down...they calmed me down...I had an agitated depression....with the antidepressant I no longer had sex...I no longer was able to cry...but I was no longer feeling terrible...more later

Well what about using valium instead of celexa? Maybe you addressed that earlier but if you do better on valium, have you tried using the valium and no celexa? You could use a slow withdrawal from celexa again and reintroduce valium. As an alternative try again with the alternatives of exercise, diet and lifestyle.

My main interest is to try to discover who and where I can find those that are the big drug pushers. If I can have some names and details I can look up and see for myself their manipulative, dishonest behaviour perhaps via a blog or hidden within the media? I am not saying those that beat the drum of drugs don't exist I just want to have a look - a name and a face so I can see for myself. Do they make a full disclosure? Do they warn about following the advice of your health care practitioner or do they just recklessly warn you start swallowing as many pills as possible?

lonely-----thanks....I wish I could tell you....but I cant...I know my own story...I had a severe depression....mental illness runs in my family...then I went to medical school and became a doctor...then I became a psychiatrist...
then I developed a severe panic disorder....then after some private practice for 7 years I broke down with a very terrible depression...I couldn't work...then I went back to working in mental health clinics.....

I know what I saw with myself and my patients.....I tried my best to listen and talk.....I tried my best to provide drugs to help....I tried to keep drugs at a minimum.....I refused to see any drug representative....and I left the clinics at age 65....I wanted to stay longer but they wanted me to see every patient for 15 minutes....and I would NOT do this...that would mean that I would be harming my patients....but that is the way I saw it....the system is very very very disturbing to me....

Some questions, and you don't need to respond here on the forum . . .

10 mg of celexa is a small dose. Are your feelings being numbed from that, or was it from higher doses/other ADs in the past? Have you had any negative test results (relating to other physiology) since taking celexa 10mg? If no to these, then my next Q would be that other than your distrust of ADs in general, are you finding any indications that this particular drug at this particular dosage is harmful to you? Although ADs are problematic generally and the MI industry relies on them too much, it doesn't necessarily mean bad things will happen to you personally (risk-based assessment). In other words, is your "fear" of ADs causing you unnecessary anxiety/worry at the present?

The following quote was taken from the Mad in America site:

“Until recently, the most common and accepted line of treatment for depression has been psychotropic medications, most notably the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors and mood stabilizers. However, recent studies indicate that these drugs may not be as effective as once thought and even when they are, relapse often occurs. Various forms of psychotherapy, such as cognitive behavioral therapy, can be efficacious but require considerable time and commitment on the part of the patient, not to mention trained professionals to institute. There are two behavioral therapies, aerobic exercise and meditation, which have demonstrated benefits for individuals suffering with depression, are not accompanied by profound side effects and can be practiced across the lifespan. Here, we provide evidence that demonstrates the effectiveness of a combined behavioral approach in improving mental and cognitive health outcomes in individuals with MDD and otherwise healthy individuals.”

I excerpted this from the Mad in America site today. I finally got around to visiting the site, and it is very good!

I am going to try the above recommendation for two months. (Refer to full article) It is suggested to incorporate both meditation and some form of cardio exercise a few times a week. In only two months test subjects have reported a 40% reduction in symptoms of depression.

I'm a meditation instructor, but lately I myself have neglected to keep up with a strong daily practice. I am encouraged by the promise here of a 40% reduction in symptoms. That is pretty substantial! I am assuming the cardio can be anything such as walking, or swimming.

I am going to take the MAP challenge! MAP stands for "Mental and Physical." The creators of this non-invasive treatment program stress that BOTH of these need to be combined.

Please note: The meditation they are talking about isn't just mindfulness practice. It is a type of meditation the Buddhists call "shamatha" or calm abiding. It can be found in any book on meditation, but make sure the book is written by someone who has the credentials to instruct.

Maybe the above would also help with coming off of psych drugs!

please let us know how this works for you....I hope you do well