Mad in america

very good discussion...each persons depression is SO DIFFERENT...it is so hard to say what to do....but I know one thing....for sure....fat or thin.. if you are prediabetic you have trouble...but you can reverse it...people do not want to know what trouble they are in...

lonely brought up the [nocibo effect]....this is confusing because it is spelled NOCEBO...I am not quite sure it applies here...the definition is confusing to me

Okay, I see that there is something called the nocebo effect but it is a little confusing and I don't fully understand it. Lonely, maybe if you read this you could offer an explanation as it relates to your experience. I see that it is defined as opposite placebo...but I don't think my brain is fired up tonight because I am not getting it.

Yes, last time I checked the research there is an increased risk of suicide from antidepressants. For older people its a slightly increased risk from a very small number. It mainly relates to the early use of the medications and I believe the risk is much greater for younger people.

Maybe someone else will recall but I remember recently one of the drug companies was shown to have hidden results of studies on one of the drugs (Paxil I think but don't quote me)which showed a quite substantial increase in risk of suicide in teenagers. The drug company went ahead and let the antidepressant be prescribed for teenagers despite the results of their own studies.

I just typed it wrong. Nocebo was brought up by me because I believe that some people are quite suggestible and if you tell for example "now I am going to inject this big needle into your arm, it might hurt quite a bit" and instead you said "now your are about to feel a mild sting, should be gone within a couple of seconds" the outcome will be different for some people. In the same way if some people (who are already anxious and have a very low mood) are told that their symptoms are going to get worse and you will likely get some very bad side effects ... well guess what? Yep some people stop their medications because they report their mood worsens and some people report bad side effects ... the very ones they were warned so strongly about. We are talking about the brain ... I am reminded of the case report of a guy that screamed as he was sent to hospital for a nail in the boot and into his foot. In great pain, the boot was removed and the nail had missed his foot entirely. All of a sudden there was no pain. At the end of the day, dealing with your depressed mood involves figuring out what works for you. No point in banging on about the side effects in my opinion. Others may disagree but that is my opinion.

In my case I am glad I persisted. Believe me or not, I don't mind, but I tried and nothing, NOTHING, made a difference apart from the medications we have. Do I wish they were better? Hell yeah, does a bear crap in the woods?

Can you tell me what you think is the answer? We know all this about medications and their shortcomings. Look, most of us have been at this for decades and frankly I am a bit lost. Is it that you think doctors need more education? That they somehow have not encountered 'alternatives' in their enormous education. And it is mind boggling the education and training they go through. We have to deal with what we have here and now... there is no magical trip into the future and we can somehow transform depressed people.

I would agree that benzo's are helpful for people in the state you described. But maybe doctors won't prescribe them for the same reasons you have given for antidepressants?

This idea is so patronizing, and so ethically wrong. A patient has the right to know. Where would this stop? Not telling cancer patients the side effects of chemo? Not telling women in labor the effect of pain medications on their unborn child? Not telling someone they should start thinking about hospice care? I would said big pharma is lurking in the background with regards to not telling patients the possible side effects of AD. Anyway, this is moot since everyone can gain access to AD side effects online. It just makes the doctors look like fools, or much worse.

Unfortunately you totally misunderstood me. I am talking about the way the information is passed not whether it is passed.

^^^ ROFL. Talk about falling flat. Flat on your face bud.

lonely---you make some good points....but one statement you make is very interesting to me....you say "no point in banging on about the side effects in my opinion".....well the problem with that is the more we are finding out about the side effects both short term and long term....we are finding more serious problems ....and they are being covered up as you have stated in another post...for certain depressions these antidepressants help...but for many they don't....they may do more harm than good...so we need to know even more about side effects until something better comes along...and so many people are given these drugs and they are not fixing the problems because they are not treating the cause.....they may be considered PLACEBO..

Having another username. One of many it looks like. That is very funny. The hugs and the apostrophe's were a giveaway but so were the attacks, vital.

mrnobody-----what do you think about the black box warning for anti-depressants...

I need to make something clear here now.....I no longer practice medicine or psychiatry...I am retired....I am not interested in $$$$ or recognition....I am interested in dealing with the truth/facts....I want to prevent problems not treat them...once those problems become chronic it is hell to reverse....I also have a very serious depression/panic problem and have had for many many years....but I have survived and it is better than before....but life has a lot of suffering...I want to be one of the gang....I do not want to be called doctor anymore....I am now one of you... whether you like it or not..i am suffering too and I want to work together for the truth...

Did not sound like that, but okay. The point is I started to have severe side effects as soon as I took the drug, and personally I cannot understand how people put up with this. As I have said many times I was not told about side effects, just that the "newer" antidepressants did not have side effects as severe as "older" antidepressants, which was basically misinformation. I also read that some people are given benzodiazepine to counter the intense anxiety and insomnia caused by going on an AD. I did not sleep for THREE DAYS. The doctor refused to give me anything for anxiety or sleep. I called the office many times in crisis mode. I have never experienced anything like this before in my life. The worst medical care ever. Talking about it just makes me angry and triggered. I am off the drugs now. Let others be wary. I am with turtle in trying to find natural preventions. There are people who have reduced their depression to a manageable level without drugs and therapy. They do come forth here on Psych Central and say as much. And I don't think it is because they only have mild depression. One poster said that they had severe depression with suicidal ideation and beat it without drugs or therapy. It may be rare, but it will remain rare as long as people are led to believe it is not possible.

Doctors do not have the time to sit and talk with their patients. Is that their fault or the system's fault? In the case of private practice, yes, a doctor could opt to have less patients and give the patients they have more in-depth care. Do doctors monitor their patients' progress? In many cases, no. In their enormous education, do western doctors learn much about holistic methods of preventative healing? No. Their education is geared towards evasive treatment, not prevention. I believe that is the point turtle is trying to make. Some posters have asked turtle, why go on and on about prevention when people here are already depressed? I believe it is because turtle believes the possibility that symptoms can be reversed and reduced to a manageable level.

I did talk with my doctor about the depression. I said that I was probably experiencing prolonged and complicated grief after my sister's death. I related to her that my anxiety stemmed from social isolation after divorce and being empty-nested, unemployment and financial difficulties. I wanted something for anxiety so I could focus on finding work. She gave me the AD and said it would take care of both depression and anxiety. Since coming on Psych Central I have found out that some ADs actually cause anxiety, and they think, possibly bi-polar symptoms.

What to do? Well, the doctor should not have scoffed at the herbal supplements I brought in to show her. She could have talked to me about grief counseling, meditation, and perhaps group therapy to help with my anxiety issues. She could have questioned me about lifestyle. Did I drink to relieve stress? Did I have friends or family I could talk to? Did I have a spiritual or church community? Had I looked into unemployment counseling? But most importantly she could have listened when I said emphatically that I DID NOT WANT AN AD. Since going off the AD I have discovered the herb passion flower, which works on GABA receptors in a similar manner as a benzodiazepine. Compared to a benzo, passion flower is mild, but it is effective, and has been proven in one clinical trial to be as effective as a benzo. It takes about 90 minutes to kick in, so it doesn't have the immediate effect of a benzo. But it works, albiet somewhat mildly, to reduce anxiety, and is non-addictive. Did my doctor know about passion flower? If she did she was keeping it her big secret.

With this information the doctor could have drawn up a personalized treatment plan with some specific goals, such as improved sleep or exercise. She could have pointed me to the online health management courses offered by the health provider she represented. All this takes time, yes.

Maybe the answers are hard to find. But we can't be afraid to look for them. I went to my doctor in good faith, and I feel I was injured, not healed. I am still trying to figure out what happened, but most of all, I am just trying to heal in a way that I can be in control. I don't trust western doctors when in comes to mental health.

It is scary to go forward in a state of not being "treated" -- by doctors -- and instead to self-treat. I feel I have improved a bit, but not as much as I need to face the vigorous challenges of my life. I am sorry if I come off as so intense. I am passionate about wanting to get better. And there is fear, and I think everyone here can relate to that. I want my symptoms to be reduced, and to go back to a more ordinary life, with successes, and accomplishments. I am not going to give up until I get there.

I am a mad doctor in America...the lastest thing...I observed a court case yesterday...a young woman was taking suboxone and a benzo together and she was out of it...I understand that combination can be deadly....it brings up the problem of combinations...
benzos have been so helpful to me over the years....and now they are being trashed but doctors are still using them...why...because they work...the problem is you have to USE them...not ABUSE them....the combination that I really distrust is an anti-depressant that is not working with abilify added on...that just sounds like BS...and abilify is an anti-psychotic...why would I take an anti-psychotic if I am not psychotic...what is going on here....each person must follow there own doctor...my doctor does this but he is not going to do it for me...I don't believe all that stuff on television....the potential side effects
from one drug is enough for me...well that is my rant for today

Adding Abilify isn't bs. I have been prescribed that combination with and its working. It is a lot better than being severely depressed and FYI doctors/researchers don't know exactly why, but that is the same with a lot of anything to do with the brain.

I am very glad that you are responding well to that combo...of course... if it works for you....but about 1/2 of people who take anti-depressants don't get any help...so should everyone be tried on abilify...and why should they be kept on the anti-depressant...maybe you have some good ideas from Australia...you are lucky to live there....in America mental health care is in need of a lot of help...