Can this explain DID?

Can this explain DID?

Your thoughts?

Here's some more food for thought.

What do you think of this?


http://www.ericberne.com/transaction...escription.htm

MY thoughts

No DID and the Id, Ego and superego are completely different.

the Id, Ego and Superego are the natural pasts of the human mind.

one (superego) being where we think about things in a logical and morals (ie knowing right from wrong, being able to think about how things relate to each other, being able to understand reasoning ie we put milk in the fridge because it will spoil, heat rises cold sinks, smoke rises clean air sinks and remains close to the ground during a fire.)

the ego is the way we organize things (ie alphabetizing books from A-Z, paper items go in one recycling box and cans go in another, plates belong with plates cups belong with cups, items that are square belong in the square group, items that are round belong int he circular grouping)

Id is our natural instincts.. kind of like salmon have a natural instinct to swim upstream to where they were born, so that they can spawn the next generation. humans have their own natural instincts that come from personal expereinces, their roles in life and their environment. Example some mothers mothers instinctively know what their children need or when their children are into something that they shouldnt be without their children verbalizing or giving any other indication. some mothers call their mothering instincts "I have eyes in the back of my head" type feelings.

The Id, Ego and superego dont take control of us,

we are able to control our behaviors ie the Superego doesnt think ok Im in control now Im going to go eat ice cream for breakfast and fly to paris today. go buy a ticket and off to paris the superego goes.

where as with DID alternate personalities take complete control and take on living as if they are a whole separate identity.. Tony flew to paris for a vacation, ate pizza for breakfast and had her own friends, bank account, clothing, apartment and job. all outside of my awareness and control.

yor average person has there ego's (id,whatever) maturing/growing between the ages of 4,5,6.....(the hippocampus and amiglidar(probably didnt even spell it right,oh well). the hippocampus is the part of my brain were all the bad memories come from and from behind my right ear is were i heard all the voices trying to talk at once,like a convention. couldnt make out what they were trying to say except once in a while and it used to scare me very much. it scared me so much i didnt even want to tell anybody cuz i thought it might scare them tooo.....

at this point in my life(4,5,6) I had my first half dozen traumas. my brain did not grow right. i have no id,ego,or superego.......i do not think the way average people think, let alone.....act the way average people act.

from the youngest point of my brain growth,4,5,6, i would improvise,adapt,overcome and create a entirely new person.....and way of living. after the first half dozen traumas, there were twenty seven more traumas to follow.....there is only three in frueds therory. each and every trauma created a safe haven inside of my brain.

i had numerous protecters. i have been in over fifty five street fights, but, not all of those fights were traumatizing. i am service connected. i have traumas from the military. i had d.i.d.....i am now one man with a concious that speaks to me, litterally,inside of my head(one voice today). i will not ever have frueds therory of id ,superego,ego, but thats just me.....and i'm ok with it....and maybe i'm wrong...but, oh well........

I hope I don't regret adding this.

I am a curious person who finds freud's model pretty small (she said with a degree of arrogance) (and somewhat triggery due to circumstances of a con/therapist who abused us using the freud model of sexual stuff, using hypnosis).

But, having recently been reminded that the explosion of the unconscious 'concept' was pretty remarkable in its day 1930's, allowing some kind of explanation for unexplainable 'stuff' (or crap depending on how you grew up) is pretty notable by the guy.

As for the Berne guy, well what can I say. Not much, as I didn't get that kind of therapy.

I'm a little more understanding of Sparrowtail's explanation of the hippocampus and amigdyla (it's a spelling contest to see who can spell them the worst but so people still get it, teehee). Neur pathways and all the rest.

But hey, here is a guy I like, with all the different faces and explanations a regular folk can understand. Seems simple enough. Not that I would put down what works for any individual. It just means there are some delightful little figures to help with those wee child parts and quite fun for teen alters or even the grownups. Figuring it all out internally doesn't have to be all bad, right?

http://www.egostatetherapy.com/Ego-S...our-ego-states

But imagine you have to go all the way to Australia, or who knows maybe your therapist uses this or something similar to give you hand. I've been a little 'vaded' myself and times. Note I did not say jaded. You'll just have to take a look at the link

There is even a book by Gordon Emmerson called Ego States Therapy. How about that! This must be the guy, the Therapist!

Now what do you think?

Can any one truely exsplane DID? One must first be able to accept the unseen. Most people can not accept what they can not feel, see, or hear. When you have to go and see a so-called perfessional in mential health that is closed minded to other peoples reality and uses their differences againts them.
AHHHHHH! I had a T appoinment today and the person said that I did something that she felt was the first time done. Having a service dog and getting my life back with control was something she thought I would not do or could do.
So when you bring a partical doc that trys to exsplane who and what we are my question is this what exsperaince does this person have in understanding us? Or does this person base his or her opionion only on the facts that they choice to believe in?
My belief in who and what we are may not be main stream but we accept each other internailly, something that the majority main stream T refuse to accept.
So being a part of the group of people that are not accepted by those that live with blinders on to how the other half live. I am not putting the definicene of who and what I am in their hands.
Anika and Sasha, service dog in training.

trigger warning is for the link at the bottom of my post .. explanation of the link is located in the paragraph just above the link.

here in my location and those I work for and my own personal beliefs about ego states vs alternate personalities is that they are two different things.

ego states are learned/copies similar to introjects ( is when we take on the attitudes, behaviors of others usually in a negative way)

in terms of ego states the mind has three of them. the parent ego state, the adult ego state and the child ego state.

the parent ego state is learned and copied ways of thinking, ways of behaving that copies or imitates our parents. we are in this state of mind when we do things that are parenting ourselves. examples I wake up in the morning. I think "I need to go take a shower before I do anything because I need to be clean before I go to work, I cant go to work feeling, and smelling like I just got out of bed" looking deeper underneath that thought by questioning why I realize the thought and behavior of needing and taking a shower this morning was because thats how my mother raised me, we got up and washed before breakfast so that we were clean and ready to go to school.

adult parenting type personalities take complete control and isnt usually a copy of our parents behaviors, its usually the alter has come up with their own plan for the survival and preservation of the host because the host is in some sort of distress and danger. When ever I was in a confrontation with anyone in authority I would switch into an adult parenting alter who would figure out what buttons to push in the offending adult and basically tell them where to go and what to do with what ever. My parents were old school that rarely if ever swore and they certainly didnt argue with people in authority. my parenting type alter took that on as a part of her own behaviors for the survival and preservation of me and all with in me. this alternate personality also read books aloud to the rest of us, my parents never learned how to read.

the adult ego state is consciously thinking, behaving and reacting to what is going on now, in the present moment, in the here and now, but doing so in a responsible logical adult fashion. right now its 5am I heard a noise outside. I got up, looked out the peep hole and saw someone starting their car in the parking lot, I think to myself ok just so and so probably taking their son around to deliver the morning papers. I made coffee and came on line to check messages and chat a bit with a friend on a messenger service.

I (the host) am the consciously aware self that deals with making sure I am grounded in the present moment dealing with all the things that go on in the here and now.

with alternate personalities most times it is because the host has dissociated of anxiety and inability to deal with the here and now, so the alter takes control doing what needs to be done.

the child ego state is thinking feeling and behaving like we did when we were children. When i was a child I learned if I kept at my parents they would give me my way on some things. so now sometimes when I really want to do something and my partner doesnt want to do that with me I will whine like I did when I was a child and start the "oh come on, it'll be fun, please, Just for a little bit, then Ill do whatever you want..." sometimes it works sometimes it doesnt but the fact remains its a thought process and behavior that I carried over into my adulthood. At first I wasnt aware that I was doing this. it was like a bad habit that I had to break and I still fight against that childhood reaction and behavior.

With child alternate personalities the behaviors, feelings and thinking like a child isnt a learned behavior of an adult acting like a child. the adult is literally that child they used to be right down to picking their nose, sucking their thumbs..... Alternate personalities literally take on lives of their own.

Some people places and mental health agencies may believe differently than we do here. ego states is a term that over the past few years has come to mean different things to different people and mental health agencies.

a great write up about what I and the mental health community here in NY believe is in the following link. before anyone clicks on it though know it has some intimate moments pictures for a banner because its on a relationships website called "relationships explained." dealing with parent adult child ego states is like dealing with relationships both the person acting out in child ego state can be trying for their partners.

that said heres the link....

http://www.relationships-explained.c...tate-model.htm

I, personally, like what Jon Kabat-Zinn and Eckhart Tolle have to say. They use these tems with their mindfulness practices and it makes sense to me.

After my DBT training, I started to explore other's opinions about mindfulness/ego states and found both these authors explained the ego much easier.

I know this may not be exactly what everyone is talking about, this is the only thing I can share about the ego.

Hippocampal and Amygdalar Volumes in Dissociative
Identity Disorder (Please note that Richard Lowenstein, my attending physician at Sheppard Pratt trauma clinic, is noted numerous times in the "reference" section at the bottom of the article):
http://userwww.service.emory.edu/~jdbremn/papers/DID_MRI.pdf

Definition of Hippocampus and how it relates to long term stress (See Amygdala definition below this):

The hippocampus contains high levels of glucocorticoid receptors, which make it more vulnerable to long-term stress than most other brain areas.[69] Stress-related steroids affect the hippocampus in at least three ways: first, by reducing the excitability of some hippocampal neurons; second, by inhibiting the genesis of new neurons in the dentate gyrus; third, by causing atrophy of dendrites in pyramidal cells of the CA3 region. There is evidence that humans who have experienced severe, long-lasting traumatic stress, show atrophy of the hippocampus, more than of other parts of the brain.[70] These effects show up in post-traumatic stress disorder, and they may contribute to the hippocampal atrophy reported in schizophrenia and severe depression. A recent study has also revealed atrophy as a result of depression, but this can be stopped with anti-depressants, even if they are not effective in relieving other symptoms.[71] Hippocampal atrophy is also frequently seen in Cushing's syndrome, a disorder caused by high levels of cortisol in the bloodstream. At least some of these effects appear to be reversible if the stress is discontinued. There is, however, evidence mainly derived from studies using rats that stress shortly after birth can affect hippocampal function in ways that persist throughout life.[72]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocampus

Amaygdala definition:

A variety of data shows the amygdala has a substantial role in mental states, and is related to many psychological disorders. Some studies have shown children with anxiety disorders tend to have a smaller left amygdala. In the majority of the cases, there was an association between an increase in the size of the left amygdala with the use of SSRI's (antidepressant medication) or psychotherapy. The left amygdala has been linked to social anxiety, obsessive and compulsive disorders, and post traumatic stress, as well as more broadly to separation and general anxiety.[26] In a 2003 study, subjects with borderline personality disorder showed significantly greater left amygdala activity than normal control subjects. Some borderline patients even had difficulties classifying neutral faces or saw them as threatening.[27] Individuals with psychopathy show reduced autonomic responses, relative to comparison individuals, to instructed fear cues.[28] In 2006, researchers observed hyperactivity in the amygdala when patients were shown threatening faces or confronted with frightening situations. Patients with more severe social phobia showed a correlation with increased response in the amygdala.[29] Similarly, depressed patients showed exaggerated left amygdala activity when interpreting emotions for all faces, and especially for fearful faces. Interestingly, this hyperactivity was normalized when patients went on antidepressants.[30] By contrast, the amygdala has been observed to respond differently in people with bipolar disorder. A 2003 study found that adult and adolescent bipolar patients tended to have considerably smaller amygdala volumes and somewhat smaller hippocampal volumes.[31] Many studies have focused on the connections between the amygdala and autism.[32] Additional studies have shown a link between the amygdala and schizophrenia, noting that the right amygdala is significantly larger than the left in schizophrenic patients.[33] Studies in 2004 and 2006 showed that normal subjects exposed to images of frightened faces or faces of people from another race will show increased activity of the amygdala, even if that exposure is subliminal.[34][35] However, the amygdala is not necessary for the processing of fear-related stimuli, since persons in whom it is bilaterally damaged show rapid reactions to fearful faces, even in the absence of a functional amygdala.[36]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdala

Thank you so very much for your replies. It’s going to take me some time to go through them and reply.

.....hmmmmmmmm.....Sheppard & Pratt....I know the campus very well

at least Baltimores', Towson Hospitol......The Dr. I see, did her internship there, quite a few years ago.

amandalouise,

Just reading it, I wondered if perhaps it could explain DID. I wondered if it might have been that, but we with DID had in some way misinterpreted these other parts of ourselves as fragmented parts or alters. It also felt a bit like grasping at straws. Still looking for answers. So I hope I didn't upset anyone with my enquiry.

Sparrowstail,

Thank you for explaining that so well. I knew about Ego but not ID and Super-Ego. I'm just questioning things while my mind is clear - or seems to be.

I think that rose from the point of me having three main parts and like I said above, I was grasping at straws. I thought I had found an answer. Perhaps quite a real and logical thing that I had simply misinterpreted in my confusion of how this (DID) came about. I cope quite well but I am quite obsessive when it comes to looking for answers - reading everything and anything and becoming very confused.

Hunny,

Sorry if anything I said triggered. Some days I'm quite happy to accept how things are and others I'm driven to seek answers. Perhaps a younger part of me is looking for the answers.

Thanks for the link.

anderson,

Thank you. I do agree that it is sooooooo difficult to explain DID. And also quite difficult to do research when parts of you just want to go have fun and other parts think you're the crazy part for questioning what they seem to accept as quite normal. Don't think it's Korin posting today. Sorry.

amandalouise,

See, my main three seem like that (the parent, the adult and the child) that's why it caught my attention I think. But sorry, I think i was way off. I think it's a case of 'back to the drawing board'. Too much information gathering can be quite confusing.

I'm taking a copy of your posts, people, so that i can read them over a few times and get my head around the information you have all provided.

Thoughts being generated while I read your post... Where you say...

I believe this switching for me is automatic and comes about as needed and I'm only aware of it after the event (still don't think it's Korin posting). I seem to be faced with a problem one minute and then it's sorted as if by magic. Do I sound crazy????

I'll be reading these posts again as I feel a little out of it at the moment. Sorry.

Thank you for making things clearer.

Thank you for the link.

June_Bug,

I have read Eckhart Tolle and listened to audio versions of his books. I like The Power Of Intention.

Thanks. Maybe listening to some of his stuff just now might help me feel a little clearer.

Thanks for the article.

Sorry, folks. I became overwhelmed by your response to my post. All good clear information. I’ll need to read it a few times to get my head around it.

I think the original post was a little too ambitious.

I don't know that DID needs "explaining"; it's a continuum, taking the unconscious to new heights

Just as there are "hysterical" illnesses where people suddenly literally can't walk, talk, see, etc. there are states of mind where the mind comes up with a whole different person/ality.

I don't have any trouble thinking about the one or the other, a person suddenly not able to see with nothing physically wrong isn't that different to me as a person who sees either what isn't there (hallucinations) or comes up with a whole new, "additional" personality with which to see certain sights (DID).

People are endlessly creative, strong and brave and I'm totally into believing that me/my body are doing their best to serve "Me" and make me the "healthiest"/most functional given my circumstances/life. Can I be healthier? Yes. But sometimes it takes a lot of work and help from others and always, the will to do that/go along with what one believes is healthiest and best for one's self.

My experience with dissociation has not been beneficial, as an adult. In fact, it puts me at risk. Where it served it's purpose in childhood, it no longer serves me well now.

It seems I spend more time dissociated, than I am comfortable with. The minute I leave my home, I dissociate. It's an automatic response to leaving safety (home). I change with varying degrees and when I get home I say to myself that if I had been in this conversation with this person, I would not have said that or would have handled it completely differently. As a result, I alienate people due to how I respond because I come across as someone "offbeat". Offbeat is my description of someone who does not respond "normally" or has huge emotional reactions during a conversation where none is really required - almost childlike responses. I get those sideways glances, second looks or long stares and then I see a judgment being cemented about me. When I get home I feel deeply ashamed and spend long times isolating myself as a result.

I have dissociative states that I have labeled. One is dread who follows me around wringing it's hands always worried and scared (carries anxiety and panic). I have the watcher who watches others and their responses to me and reports back to me when I get home (very critical parental or authority figure). I have shame that hangs around me when I get home after the watcher has reported (my childhood abuser). I have the joker, which comes out more often than I like in public and makes funny statements or acts funny but is not really funny at all (not unlike my father who also acted this way). I have my inner child that appears needy and has no social skills whatsoever. This inner child is 5 years old and holds my trauma memories and is that part that quickly moves me into dissociation when feeling unsafe. This is the part that I struggle with the most as I have never been able to communicate with any success. The 5 year old part of me has never been to school, does not know how to read or write and has had inconsistent parenting with long-term sadistic abuse and so there's a huge language barrier there to work with. I have tried over the years, but nothing has worked and I fear I will forever be stuck and not able to move through to integration, which is what I am hoping for.

I have never honored these parts as being fragmented as this has only added to difficulties in living day to day in my adult life and kept people alienated from me. I do practice grounding skills and DBT, but still it's a daily uphill arduous battle. Yesterday, while on my balcony working on my flower garden a neighbor walked by and started a conversation with me which startled me and sent me straight into dissociation..... shaking my head in despair. Then in a support group the joker came out and made inappropriate comments while other people were talking. I'll probably not go back. Maybe I should name a new part - the defeatist, who orchestrates all these parts to keep me in bondage.

( ( ( Korin and others ) ) )
I am sorry that one of us was so frustrated with the example from old school PhD’s
Needless to say because of T’s putting them into an all knowing, all seeing wisdom keepers.
They have not made our life any easier then the people that made us the way we are.
To us humans put us into the situations that made us. But a spiritual being gave us the means to survive it.
So when I or any of those within me look for answers of who or what we are I look towards the people that say that they do not have all the answers.
But according to what I see this is how I understand it.
Deepack Chopra is one person that gave me some insight into ourselves.
He does not put our parts down as just make believe but as a means for us to survive.
He uses the analogy of different hats.
This is the natural reaction of how AKA normal people react to one another.
Even normal people will change the way they speak or act according to the person that they interact with.
Very few people will treat their wife, children, extended family and friends the same way.
So the hat refers to the way a person reacts to each person and situation.
Our “HATS” are the alters that come forward.
They at a time of great abuses helped us to survive.
This is something that can not be changed over night for we are hardwire to act this way.
He goes into detail in the book called “How to know God”.
But I found a site that talks about how he sees MPD/DID.
It is not a recommendation but a resource of how we see Who and What we are.
Below is an example of how he sees us. I hope that you can see what I see in it.

What is Ayurveda?
The guiding principle of Ayurveda is the interconnection of all things – the mind and the body, the spiritual and the physical, the inner world and the outer environment. From this holistic perspective, the body isn’t a sloshing bag of biochemicals; it’s a field of quantum mechanical intelligence that is constantly responding to our thoughts, emotions, and intentions.
Consider the example of multiple personality disorder. People suffering from this severe psychiatric illness aren’t affected only at the psychological level. When they shift from one personality to another, dramatic changes can occur in their bodies. For example, one personality might have high blood pressure, while another personality within the same person may not. One personality may have diabetes, while the other personalities test normal for insulin levels.
In the medical research of multiple personalities, there are cases of patients whose eyes transformed from blue to brown as they dropped one personality and put on another. In another case, a woman had three separate menstrual periods every month corresponding to each of her three different personalities.
All of these examples are perfect illustrations of how signals from the quantum mechanical body trigger instantaneous changes in the physical body. The transformation takes place at the deepest level of intelligence, below our conscious awareness.

June Bug,

That is a wonderful description you gave. I have a really rebellious teenager named Angel, a loving teacher named Alison, a suicidal neurotic named Alice, a small me named Lilly, a very helpful male presence that I refer to as my guide named Angelo. I’m aware of other somewhat insecure and perhaps aggressive activity but don’t have clearance to discuss.

I struggle with the terminology because even after all these years it sounds weird to me. I never used it out loud for the first twenty years because I didn’t know what was going on, and so I thought I was going mad and I was afraid of losing my children so I never told anyone about my strange and wonderful inner world.

anderson,

I have read Deepack Chopra and it is amazing how much sense I make of what he says. I have downloaded lots of audio from him and others like him and listen to it a lot. It does help me feel less strange about the things I believe. Not the kind of things one can discuss with family members. I've bookmarked that site and I will do some reading there later. Thanks again for this information.

I've also read Dr. Edward de Bono's Six Thinking Hats. I try to use it as a way of staying focussed.