Is this dissociation?

All my life I've experienced losing blocks of time and as I didn't know it wasn't "normal". Everyone forgets thing at times. Right? I just thought I was "better" at forgetting then most people and didn't understand why people would get annoyed with me or even angry. I would often be accused of lying although I now know I was probably confabulating. Even though I have been married for 40 years this can be a cause of friction between myself and my wife.

Recently however, I have been partially remembering some events and I realise that I am not totally with it at the time. Some examples:

I was in a supermarket with my wife when I experienced a very sudden onset of one of the auras I often get before a migraine. Normally these come on so gradually that I don't notice they are happening until it's too late to take my migraine meds. This time it came on within 30 seconds - the world kind of becomes distant and visually everything becomes vague. That didn't worry me particularly - auras happen although I was surprised by its suddenness. Then I realised that I didn't know where I was in the supermarket. I told my wife that I was lost, and so she led me around the store until she had everything and then she told me to head to the checkouts while she got a final item. She obviously didn't really understand that I was completely disorientated, so I had to ask her where the checkouts were. She gave me an obviously annoyed look as she pointed in a certain direction.

I headed off in that direction and now I come to the odd part. I remember seeing the row of checkouts, but i didn't know that they were checkouts. I hope that make sense. It was if I didn't know their purpose or function. I would probably have walked right past them if my wife hadn't caught up with me and guided me into a checkout isle. I remember being fascinated by the beep as each item passed over the scanner, but had no clue as to the reason. I remember wondering why the operator moved only one item at a time from one end of the counter to the other. I thought it was very inefficient. I remember being distracted by some idle chatter from the packer, but I have no clue what was said, although I do remember thinking that she had a pretty face.

Eventually my wife guided me out of the supermarket and lead me to our car. I started coming right soon afterwards although I felt very washed out. I think I remember the event as it was very short lived, but from what my wife has told me, it wasn't much different from other times when I "act strangely" except it was shorter.

Last week I had a day when I answered the telephone four to six times during the day, but almost as soon as I put the phone down I was unable to recall who called or what the conversation was about, although I can clearly remember talking to someone on the phone. Perhaps a bit like watching someone on on the phone in a television show, but with the sound turned off.

Are these events some sort of dissociation?

Dissociation is so varied among individuals that it can seem quite serious or fairly mundane and simplistic. I think is is safe to assume that you already know the answer to this questions based on your experience and your answers in your personal profile about your major concerns. Nobody can tell you for certain whether you dissociated or not but again, I think it is safe to assume (note that I say, ASSUME) that you were dissociating. I'm not sure why I feel this way but I feel like you know that but just want additional validation? And if that is the case, why is it that you feel you need it? Perhaps proof to your wife that there are actual reasons behind the issues within your relationship?

Please, feel free to call me out if this is not accurate ... and again, I don't know you or even really know why I feel/think this but for some reason, I thought it would offer you some insight?

Maybe I'm dissociating?! >:-[

Some of the symptoms you mention can be symptoms of dissociation, but they can also be symptoms of physiological problems as well.

I would suggest speaking with your primary physician about this. Sometimes people can have seizures that can cause this type of behavior, among other things. It's best to get the medical/physiological things ruled out and if things look good, then you can seek guidance from a mental health practitioner.

When my T and I first realized that I was dissociating, she told me to talk with my MD. My Doc did an EEG and a CT scan of my brain, and some labs to make sure there was nothing out of the ordinary. Once I got cleared medically, we were able to start exploring things.

I hope this helps. I've had experiences like that before myself. The scariest was when I was putting gas in my car, at the gas station directly across the street from my apartment. I finished, got in my car, drove across the intersection and drove right passed my apartment complex to the next light. I did not recognize my own home....and when I got to the next light, I didn't know where I was...but I knew I was supposed to. It took me a few minutes of driving around before I came back to myself and I don't now who was out and who was in....but it was really scary.

Thanks *Defeated* for your comments. You might be right about me wanting validation. Discussing mental health issues is something new for me even though I think my condition hasn't changed significantly over 50 years or more - the only difference is me actually being able to remember shorter episodes.

And I suppose another reason for asking the question is to find replies from others that experience somewhat similar forms of dissociation that might help the family understand the condition better. They get stressed out about me and sometimes that feeds back negatively as anger or frustration.

I have already been down that path. Over the last year I have had 2 MRI scans, 2 CT scans and 2 EEGs and a spinal tap. There has been no significant changes (whatever that means) over the last 10 years. Other recent x-rays and bloods etc have shown up kidney stones, polymyalgia rheumatica and temporal arteritis, but that's about all.

They acknowledge there is some undefined neurological problem - I have presented with fixed and dilated pupils, muscular weakness on one side, lack of balance etc, but nothing shows up that can explain the symptoms.

I often get the feeling that the neurologists think there's some minor neurological problem contributing to my condition, but most of it is psychological, while the psychologists and psychiatrists think there is some minor psychological condition present, but most of it is neurological.

It would be nice if all my symptoms fitted neatly in one basket, but I realise that's asking for too much

My mother suffers from migraine's when her only symptom is difficulty in saying words. She describes knowing what she wants to say, but when she talks it is all jumbled up and makes no sense at all. The first time it happened we thought she had a stroke, but that was ruled out and it is put down to migraine's.

I get odd symptoms when I feel in or out of my body (prefer being out of it actually) - my T is aware. I have no formal diagnosis (I was desperate for a diagnosis at 1 stage), but now I just view it as part of me and my body / mind needing to do it right now as it is serving some sort of purpose. It can be unnerving though.

It's good that you have had the medical checks.

What else could it be?

I remember now why I asked the question. I should have asked "Is this a dissociation disorder". Most descriptions of dissociation disorder say that:

The disturbance does not occur exclusively during the course of Dissociative Identity Disorder and is not due to the direct physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or a general medical condition (e.g., temporal lobe epilepsy). (emphasis mine)

I frequently get migraines and wonder if the events I describe are a symptom of the migraine itself, or if they are a DD. Is there any way to tell?

If they are a symptom the the migraine then it's not a DD. On the other hand, if it is a mechanism I've acquired to cope with the unpleasantness of migraines then it would be a DD. Does that make sense?

Dissociative Disorders dont usually present symptoms of fixed and dilated pupils and Auras. though migraines do.

an example of dissociation is daydreaming, high concentration, spacing out, feeling numb, feeling like you are in slow motion, lightheaded, feeling like you are hung over (without having touched a drop of booze or drugs), feeling like the world is not real or you are not attached to the world around you,

yes dissociation can be used to cope with migraines. but that in itself doesnt make it a dissociative disorder. everyone uses dissociation to one extent or another. but it takes a lot more than using it to cope with migraines to make it a disorder.

the symptoms of migraines can mimic that of dissociation and dissociative disorders.

we cant tell you if whats happening to you is a dissociative disorder or even which one. only your treatment providers can do that.

you said you had all kinds of tests done. go according to what ever your treatment providers told you it was.

talk with your treatment providers they can do psychiatric evaluations for dissociative disorders and all other mental disorders and medical problems that share the same symptoms as dissociative disorders and then they will be able to tell you if what you are going through is a dissociative disorder, which one and how to treat it.

The long and short of it is that they don't know what is wrong as the MRI scans, CT scans, EEGs, spinal taps, blood tests, interviews with psychiatrists and psychologists etc have yielded no diagnosis except "You're a very unusual case, haven't seen anything like it before. We'll get your GP to keep monitoring you."

In the meantime I'm not able to plan more than a few hours ahead as I don't know when I will
next get a migraine and/or whatever else I get which causes me so much confusion and memory loss.

The family is stressed out not knowing what I might do next. Waking up in the middle of the night to find me missing is, I imagine, very stressful. I'm sure the police would prefer to make better use of their time than scouring the streets of the town and nearby country roads looking for me.

I've been admitted to hospital 4 times so far this year because passers-by, police etc have been so concerned about my condition (staggering bumping into things, disorientated, and incoherent) that they have called an ambulance.

I get the feeling that they have placed me in the "too hard" basket as they don't have the time and resources to do anything more. My GP told me quite bluntly that medicine doesn't have all the answers and I'll have to learn to cope with it.

That's why I'm here - looking for any tips, clues, ideas and suggestions I can use to arm myself with the next time I see a medical professional.

Unfortunately you can read up on every medical and mental health problem there is and still not have your answers because so many mental and medical problems share the same symptoms.

the only way to really narrow the field down is for you to keep some sort of documentation of your problems and symptoms. maybe in the form of a journal, then eventually as each medical and mental health problem gets ruled out you will be that much closer to having a diagnosis.

one thing you might be aware of is that there are medical and mental problems that can seem to disappear and come back again when you are under stress and there are medical problems and mental problems that show their self in physical problems but tests results show nothing.

for example conversion disorder is one such mental disorder where mental disorder symptoms come out as physical ways and mental ways but does not show up on any tests. so does fibramyalgia in rare cases.

it may take a while before you get your answers but the answers are out there somewhere. just keep working with your treatment providers, keeping them up to speed on your problems and symptoms and one day it will all click together and you will have your answers.

Have any of your tests been performed DURING and episode? That may shed some light on things and if many of them are happening during the night, how about a sleep study to see what is going on when you "fall into" one of these episodes?

Because my condition isn't life threatening, I have to go onto a waiting list. The times I have been admitted to hospital has been when paramedics thought I was having a stroke, or some something similar. Once The A&E decide It's not that serious, I am placed on a waiting list and discharged.

There has only been one occasion when I was admitted where there were neurological symptoms. I was staying with my brother for a few days and had wandered off in a fugue state. When the the police found me they were convinced that I was suffering from Alzheimers and my brother took me off to A&E. My pupils were fixed and dilated, my pulse was about 180 and I had a pronounced weakness on my right side. I seemed to be unaware that I had a right hand and would physically move my right arm with my left hand when it got in the way. That time I was kept in the hospital while they ran practically every test available, including MRI and CT scans, spinal taps, EEGs and ECGs, X-rays and I don't know how many blood and urine samples. In the end I was discharged and advised to see my GP if there were any significant changes in my behaviour or symptoms.

I was admitted on a Tuesday evening, and I had an ECG, bloods and urine samples taken on admission. My first MRI was at 9pm on Wednesday (more than 24 hours after admission. The CT scan was at 4am on Thursday. The first spinal tap was Thursday afternoon. A large number of tests were done on Friday

By Wednesday afternoon (the day after admission) I was in recovery mode. and stayed that way until Saturday night when I had another attack. I started wandering about the ward and crashing into things. Apparently the nursing staff had to strap me to the bed to keep me in place. I wasn't violent or anything. I'd just get up and stagger away. I don't remember anything until Sunday evening, and then in the early hours of Monday I had the second MRI. More scans and tests were done during the rest of Monday and Tuesday, and I was discharged late on Tuesday afternoon. Their conclusion was "nothing conclusive" and I was referred back to my GP for a follow up.

That was the longest stay. All those before and since have been for less than 24 hours.

I had another fugue episode yesterday, but I didn't learn about it until this morning, when I discovered it was Sunday and not Saturday as I thought. I've since learnt that someone saw me staggering about in the centre of town and called the ambulance service. I wear a medical alert bracelet, which describes my condition, so once they had determined I was not suffering from a stroke, they took me straight home. The nearest hospital is in a nearby city - about half an hour away. It's a general hospital. The nearest neurological centre is about 8 hours drive away.

I've decided our (NZ) public health system is great for accidents and emergencies and where symptoms neatly fit into a specific illness, but isn't much use in unusual non life threatening situations.

Hmmm, a few more questions and you don't have to answer them if you don't feel comfortable. Just trying to gain some insight ...

1. Do you have a history of childhood trauma (abuse)?

2. Just prior to an "episode," do you have any recollection that anything stressful was happening that may have "told" your brain to check out for a while as a means of coping.

3. I believe I remember you saying you've had these symptoms for over 50 years, have they progressed since the onset?

4. And what was the age you remember having your first episode?

Obviously your brain is taking a vacation when this happens but you need to figure out if it's physiological or psychological. Sounds like you've had a lot of tests but have you spoken with a therapist. He/She may be able to shed some light on the situation??

Good luck and keep us posted.

1 Not that I recall. I have always felt I had an ideal childhood. I didn't have friends of my own but I would join in play with the children in the neighbourhood and with the friends of my siblings. I did enjoy being by myself a lot. I was teased (and at times bullied) for being what I now know to be social ineptitude. I don't recall the teasing and bullying as being distressing - just a normal part of life.

2No stressful triggers that anyone can identify. Must migraines are more like the "typical" migraine with aura, but but with a feeling of "not being there" - like everything is distant and vague. I suspect that I switch out as a means of coping with the pain, but I'm not sure. I'm not sure if it's normal, but I never have any memory of pain (migraine or otherwise) after the event. The only way of knowing I had pain is by remembering my actions (groaning, doubling over etc), remembering what I told someone about the pain I was experiencing at the time, or by what others have observed.

3, 4 I started getting migraines regularly when I was about 13. I think I had the occasional attack when I was 11 and 12. They continued at weekly to monthly episodes throughout my teens and gradually became less severe through my 20s. By about 30 I had migraines at about 3-4 week intervals, but I has stopped getting nauseous with most attacks. Then at around 45 the frequency and severity of the migraines started to increase, until by the time I reached 50 I was no longer able to continue in full time employment.

After discussions with family and friends, I seem to have lost blocks of time going back to my late teens, although I was not aware of memory loss until about 10 years ago. I'm not sure when the fugue states started. The first one that we know of was about 25 years ago, but we put that down to the medication I was taking at that time. Shortly before I stopped work, I would sometimes find myself in the wrong town when returning from work. I put it down to being "lost in thought" although I could never remember what I might have been thinking of. I was too embarrassed at the time to mention this to anyone.

Yep, what I am trying to figure out is whether it is physiological or psychological. Neurologists suspect it is psychological triggered by the migraines. The psychologists suspect it has a physiological origin and and any physiological issue is minor. Every turn seems to take me back to the beginning.