I don't have a core host

My therapist said it was rare that I don't have a core host. Like one single part that takes on as the host. There's actually three of us who take on as the host and while we all have the same memories, and we all are there for the same things. We all live very separate lives. When we make a major switch from one of us to other we don't forget what has happened for the last month that the other host has been out. The two who are not present sit in the background, just sort of watching. It takes a lot of energy out of us.

To me I have two different kinds of switching. I have the switching where I switch quickly and rapidly. And then I have switching between the cores where it takes a good week to transfer completely over and in that time my system is left really vulnerable to other more harmful parts. It's exhausting making a core switch.

Does anyone else not have a single core host?

Hello LydiaB,

WE don't have a host either and we have many personalities. As you all are healing if it comes to pass that you don't have a host and you feel you want a host then maybe asking your T to help you start making some ideas of who want to be a host. I have found in my 20+ years of healing from MPD/D.I.D. that if were all co-conscious and were all sorta moving along then why worry about it.
As for you being rare, just in my opinion I don't think it matters as much as getting along, staying safe, getting new jobs to replace the old jobs you might or might not need. But to be rare, that is nice, don't cha think.

I would not worry. Things have a way of working out and I can tell you this will work itself out within you.

Great healing, Peace Crew

I don't think it's so nice. Rare or not rare. I get exhausted having more then one because the other two always have to be aware at all times also, as to not loose any time and so it's literally like having three minds on one brain capacity. It's exhausting. I have to sleep at least 12 hours a day or I'm mush.

Please do not laugh...what is a core? Not very clear what exactly that is. Apples have center cores. So is the question who is in the center?

i am sorry i do not know this...should but ....

Bmee2, Core=host=the one that existed before the split, the mentality/identity born into the body, generally the one who's name matches the body's name

I feel this way too LydiaB. I havent had any evaluation to determine anything but I (Nina), Cas, and Shanna all work together about all the living. Cas sees what I am say now even. I agree that it's SO exhausting. I need sleep always. I am never well-rested.

Nina

what is the core is one of those questions/answers that have many meanings because there are many different beliefs/cultures/locations and ways treatment providers approach the issue...

here where I live and work, NY USA, the mental health community believes the core is the person that was born to the body, the one from which the first alter was created from. here it is also believed the core and host is the same thing.

example I was the one born to this body, my alters were created / came into being because I could not handle being abused in such horrendous ways in which I was. therefore I am the core /the host in which all the alters resided.

other locations cultures treatment providers may believe differently.

((((LydiaB)))) WE don't have a core host either we have many hosts. My core personality ; the original self ...before we split is only one years old.I have lots of hosts....they make sure that the real world doesn't think we are nuts. My tx. said it will take time...but she is convinced that eventually we will all be integrated into the core personality. hugs PS...are we supposed to have a core host?

I think it's pretty standard to? But it doesn't mean were "supposed" to. I guess is your host was too young when the trauma occurred then obviously they can't be handling all the tough stuff?

But I was actually older when I split.

Maybe that's just what my therapist is used to working with. And that's what I saw a lot in the hospital. Like Jane would be Jane and then Jane would have six parts that she could switch into.

But for me, we cores all just go by Lydia and have learned to adapt to it, because that's the set of regulations society has put on us. Since we all share quite equal time and the cores know each others same memories. But we're still very different. One loves gardening, but another will kill every single plant while she's out. But we have lesser parts too that aren't cores, that we switch into on lesser occasions, we still have yet to find out who belongs to what core yet.

I was trying to look stuff up last night and they said that trauma can cause even parts to have dissociative identity disorder. So if I originally split into three. And those three split into 5 each. I now have 15.

Current theory (structural dissociation) suggests there *isn't* a host at all - or what used to be thought of as a 'host' is now called an ANP (an 'apparently normal personality'). An ANP is any personality state who deals with everyday aspects of life. Current theory also suggests there can be more than one 'ANP', each who takes on a different job or aspect of a job. For instance one who takes care of the children and house, one who relates to a partner, another one who relates to a partner sexually, and one who deals with work or business. In this theory of dissociation it is quite normal to have more than one 'host'.
In structural dissociation it is believed that every single baby begins life with an unintegrated personality... meaning they have different emotional states that are simply reactive rather than regulated (ie: they cannot control their own emotional states). In normal development the child learns to regulate and control these emotional states with the aid of the parent. The parents model and teach them about healthy emotional boundaries, self soothing, and give them a sense of physical and emotional safety. When this doesn't happen the different emotional states remain unintegrated and separate, and if the child experiences trauma that cannot be emotionally resolved ongoing dissociation can develop.

Very interesting... Don't know how much I agree or disagree... but interesting.

yea here in the United States of America "structural dissociation" is an *** Abstract theory**** that gets bounced around by college psych majors doing their papers.. it isnt nationally nor state recognized as an ethically approved or widely accepted therapy technique/approach /concept...just something thats been bounced around from time to time here in america since the early 1990's to about 2010.

here in NY the host is not considered to be another or any personality state.. mainly because the diagnostics state the person with the disorder must have at least two alternate personalities. the diagnostics (neither the out going nor the new proposed diagnostics) states the host as one of the personalities. So here in NY USA we cant legally consider /recognize the host (person born to the body) as a personality... maybe some day but unfortunately as of yet "structural dissociation" remains just **an abstract theory**..Too bad too because I know a few dissociative s that consider their aware self (host/core) to be an alter..I did at one time until it became clear who was born to the body and who were residing within the body separate from me holding those issues I could not handle....

AmandaLouise, criterion 'a' in the DSM-IV is "The presence of two or more distinct identities or personality states (each with its own relatively enduring pattern of perceiving, relating to, and thinking about the environment and self." It says nothing about a 'host' or 'original' personality at all. It doesn't talk about a host person +1 or more alters, nor an original personality invaded by other personalities, but a person with *more than one* enduring identity or personality state. Why practitioners in New York have chosen to interpret the DSM-IV to mean a 'host' personality with coexisting alters that I could not say. From the information given in the DSM-IV I don't see how they could make that assumption. Do you have any insight?
You are right that the structural theory of dissociation is just that - a theory. You are also probably correct about it being 'bounced around by college majors doing papers'. There are several high level researchers (Ellert Nijinhuis, Kathy Steele and Onno van der Hart to name a few) who devote their research to learning about and understanding dissociative processes, and I think it is a very good thing for any college major to examine the work of these respected researchers in any papers they need to write for their own studies. Increasing knowledge and awareness in the professional community can only be beneficial for all people with dissociative disorders.
There are several other theories about dissociation that are currently being studied and examined too. What is common to all of these emerging theories is that they are contributing to our growing understanding of dissociation and they are reforming previous ideas about it.
The treatment guidelines given on the ISST-D website (for those who don't know this is the International Society for the Study of Trauma and Dissociation, where all the latest research and knowledge from experts all over the world is pooled) state that
"The DID patient is a single person who experiences himself or herself as having separate alternate identities that have relative psychological autonomy from one another. At various times these subjective identities may take executive control of the person's body and behavior and/or influence his or her experience and bevavior from within. Taken together, all of the alternate identities make up the identity of the human being with DID."
Again, they don't suggest there is a 'host' with other personalities living within him or her (although I know only too well that to to the identity states at the front that is what it really feels like) but that all identity states are parts of the same original whole. I personally have never seen any scholarly literature that suggests there IS a 'host', although I know that for many years this was thought to be the case. All the outcomes of current research and study point to the 'presenting identity state' being a part of the whole like any other, and that is why it is presented as such both in the DSM-IV and in international guidelines for treatment of people with DID. It can sound scary to the DID person, but it really isn't - and when considered in terms of overall theory it actually makes a ton of sense.

exactly the DSM IV TR does not state the host is a personality. it states there must be the presences of two or more..that is why NY does not call the one born to the body an alter, or a personality..

NY, USA interprets it that way because that is what the American Psychiatric Association says thats how we must interpret it. The mental health community here in the city in which I live and work interprets it that way because it is how our ethics board that governs such things states we must.

NY USA does not consider the person born to the body to be a "personality" I know this will upset some people but its how things are here where I live and work. we consider the one born to the body to be a person and those in which inhabit the body due to trauma caused dissociation to be a "personality"

we do so because when you look in any dictionary, reference books medical or psychological it states a person is flesh, blood, bones,....where as a personality is how that person projects and perceives its self mentally. ..whereas a host is the body and the one born to the body..and the term core here follows suit meaning the center, the initial one from which the initial personality splits.

this is the distinction between the terms host, person and personality we use here where I live and work. other treatment providers may have been trained and understand these terms in other ways depending upon their locations and professional training, cultural backgrounds...

your own treatment providers can help you contact your governing bodies in mental health and explain the meaning of the terms according to your location and the treatment providers requirement standards where you are.

Just to throw in my likely worthless bit of insight, we usually don't say host we say core. Core seems less like possession and more like.... like the way we know things within our system to be. Cas is the original but we are so separate right now that cas will frequently feel like we are possessing her.

Shanna

AmandaLouise, you will believe what you believe and that is okay - I understand that if you have gone through your healing under the belief that you are the 'core' person and the others are alters it would be all but impossible for you to concpetualize it differently. That is what has worked and still does work for you, and that is okay. But neuroscience is now leading the understanding about the neurobiological basis of the development of dissociative identity disorder in another direction and it is okay for me to share this information here.

The proposed change for the DSM-V (as of 30th April, 2012) is as follows: Disruption of identity characterized by two or more distinct personality states or an experience of possession. This involves marked discontinuity in sense of self and sense of agency, accompanied by related alterations in affect, behavior, consciousness, memory, perception, cognition, and/or sensory-motor functioning. These signs and symptoms may be observed by others or reported by the individual.
The updated diagnositc criteria do NOT state there is a 'host' or 'core person' that experiences this disruption in identity. In fact, if we pick this apart according to dictionaries and reference books there is no reference to a person or physical body at all. It focuses on the psychological experience of identity and the division of this sense of identity into at least two personality states (ways of being). In basic mathematical terms it is not one whole person plus two separate alters, but one whole sense of identity divided into at least two separate identity states. If the proposed change goes through that is how the APA will then be directing you and your colleagues to interpret it.

While I am sure many of your colleagues in your immediate circle may well currently believe as you do, it is extremely improbable that all mental health practitioners in New York, USA, believe the same. There are currently many New York mental health practitioners who belong to the ISST-D group, so obviously they are already embracing the new theories, developments, understandings and treatment guidelines for DID. Some studies have shown that as few as 21% of certified psychiatrists believe there is strong evidence for the validity of the diagnosis of DID, despite the fact that it is right there in there diagnostic manual and regardless of how the APA directs them to interpret the diagnostic criteria. It would be a statistical anomaly if it so happened that all psychiatrists in the New York area happened to buck this overwhelming trend. I do believe that it is true of your immediate circles that your colleagues believe and interpret the DSM-IV as you do, but to say that everyone in New York believes the same is a gross overgeneralization that just doesn't hold up.

thanks for the info could you please let me know where I can find those studies you talk about,

I also have a question.. how did we get from lydia telling us how her own internal system is set up to this debate over what I must follow in my job...I do remember posting to a poster about what the mental health community believes here where I live and work in regards to what a core is..I do remember posting letting people know what the terms mean where I live and work and I remember stating in my post that others may believe differently than what we believe here where I live and work... so why is this turning into a debate over what you believe vs what I and the mental health community where I live and work believe?

I thought I was being nice by answering Bm2 question..I did not mean for this to become a debate over who is right and who is wrong..

the bottom line is you are right for your location, treatment providers and what ever and Im right for my location treatment providers, what APA has told our agency about following this mental disorder and what the ethics board here in my location has told us we must follow ...

so how about we get back to what lydia meant this thread to be like before we have her believing shes all alone in this..

lydia asked if anyone else didnt have any core/host like herself...

Lydia you are not alone...I didnt have this happen to me but I know many people that do have alters that have taken on the job of being the ones in charge similar to your internal system.

As it stands the information about the changing understandings of DID and the critique of the DSM-IV and V diagnostic criteria for DID are very relevant to this thread and Lydia's original question. Lydia, in the past it was believed pretty much everywhere that a person with DID had a 'core' or 'original' first-born personality, but these ideas are now changing. As more is learned and understood about the nature of dissociation and the neurobiological development of DID the perception is shifting from one of a host personality 'afflicted' with alters to that of one unintegrated personality made up of discrete states - all of which 'belong' to the 'original' person and none of which has claim to singular ownership of the body.
To sum up: Your experience of not having a single 'host' self fits in perfectly with current theory and the impending proposed changes to the diagnostic criteria.

thank you for clarifying those points.. it wasnt my intent to discredit you and what you, your location and such believe as current info.. I was stating what I found online about it, what was talked about during a recent seminar on mental disorders I attended, and my experience in college psych classes. it wasnt meant as a discredit against you and what you believe or what ISSD puts out. I thought my statement about other locations and such may believe differently was clear enough to show I wasnt trying to discredit anything just adding the other side of the coin so those reading had both sides of that theory.

Im the type of person that likes to know both the pros and cons about therapy approaches and I know others do as well, when I find something that interests me I look at both sides of it. Not just one or the other.. that way I have the whole picture of that therapy approach.

again Im sorry that you took my post as being my trying to discredit you and what you believe, it was not my intent.

I would also like to say sorry lydia if this has detracted from what you were looking for.

The Exhausting Part of MPD/DID.

It seems like everyone wants to go there and that is okay. Of course it's exhausting but it WiLL work out.

If you have a core then the core will show herself or his self when that core feel comfortable enough to come out and show themselves.

compared to all the things you will work on, I think you will look back and see that having a core or Not have a core is not a big a deal as it seems for you now.

I have been here many times and I'm not meaning to blow "the core" off subject it s just there is so much else that I feel you need to deal with. No I am not your T but I am a peer that has been where you are.

You will see someday as you look back that its the foundation you build your healing off is the BIG DEAL. I do care and get it just trying to put my ducks in a row and it has worked out for me, I hope it will work out for you.

Peace and hey sleep while you can, healing causes a whole mess of conflicts

guys,
Crew