[finding_my_way]

from about 16 on, i had been labeled as borderline. for years, i knew that never really fit me because from all the research i have done (and it has been a lot) about my symptoms, i never felt it was a fit for me but that nothing really has been diagnosis wise as there are so many overlapping symptoms, but nothing 100%.

i was scared to ask my psychiatrist until today if she thought i had borderline personality disorder (BPD). she said that she thought i had BPD, also with anxiety/OCD, but that i am on the dissociative spectrum (of BPD, i think she meant) but also that i have variations (which i took as i am not borderline technically because of the variations that don't fit into the DSM criteria). i have always had parts and always a lot of varying symptoms, so nothing really was all that consistent with me even years ago if someone was trying to actually diagnose me.

my question is for anyone with dissociative disorders (DDNOS or whichever it is now in Canada/the US), do you also carry the label of borderline personality disorder?

I am wondering how common it is to have both because i also read somewhere that dissociation in borderline personality disorder isn't really the same as one where you have parts....do those who have BPD experience parts, hear voices, etc.?

[amandalouise]

Originally Posted by finding_my_way

from about 16 on, i had been labeled as borderline. for years, i knew that never really fit me because from all the research i have done (and it has been a lot) about my symptoms, i never felt it was a fit for me but that nothing really has been diagnosis wise as there are so many overlapping symptoms, but nothing 100%.

i was scared to ask my psychiatrist until today if she thought i had borderline personality disorder (BPD). she said that she thought i had BPD, also with anxiety/OCD, but that i am on the dissociative spectrum (of BPD, i think she meant) but also that i have variations (which i took as i am not borderline technically because of the variations that don't fit into the DSM criteria). i have always had parts and always a lot of varying symptoms, so nothing really was all that consistent with me even years ago if someone was trying to actually diagnose me.

my question is for anyone with dissociative disorders (DDNOS or whichever it is now in Canada/the US), do you also carry the label of borderline personality disorder?

I am wondering how common it is to have both because i also read somewhere that dissociation in borderline personality disorder isn't really the same as one where you have parts....do those who have BPD experience parts, hear voices, etc.?

here is what america goes by for borderline personality disorder. as you can see criterion 9 is severe dissociative symptoms.

http://www.treatingbpd.ca/BPD-Diagno...esentation.php

in the dissociative category each of the dissociative disorders carries the criterion that the symptoms can not be better explained by another disorder. which basically means a person with any of the other disorders (for example borderline personality disorder) can carry the same symptoms as those in the dissociative disorders categories. the difference is their dissociative symptoms are because of /related to their having the other disorder that is sharing the same symptoms.

what does all this mean...yes borderline personality disorder can now also have the symptom of having the severe dissociative symptoms (ie feeling of numbness, spaciness, disconnection, parts\alters\ dissociative amnesia/depersonalization,derealization....)

the key here is how it presents itself and whether its better explained by a dissociative disorder diagnostics or whether its better explained with in another mental disorders diagnostics.

note the bottom half of this link is not the present diagnostic criteria. it is added information of what is being considered\thought about\discussed among the American Psychiatric Association panels for when its time to do the next revision, in other words a proposal not set in stone.

to read more about this you can go to your library and read your libraries copy of the DSM 5 (for the american standards) some parts of canada are using the DSM 5 and other parts are using other standards. your treatment provider can show you which standard they are going by and how and why your symptoms fall into the borderline personality disorder standards.

[Secretum]

Mild-moderate dissociation is present in a lot of different psychiatric disorders, including borderline, mood disorders, schizophrenia, etc...

I did a lot of reading on dissociation in BPD a few months ago because I was concerned that I may have been borderline and I do experience a lot of (mild) dissociation. I found that there are differences in brain physiology seen in BPD that make sufferers more likely to experience dissociation. I also found an article thad said that a very high percentage (I want to say 75%?) of people with DID (most severe dissociative disorder) also met the criteria for BPD.

So dissociation and BPD are definitely closely linked.

I did some reading and studies in BPD, and what I got out of it (fact or fiction), that BPD alters are facets of a singularity where DID is a true multiplicity. I was just in DBT and I couldn't relate because our behavior patterns changes with whose up front. Since I went the second tme, it just was so not me, so we quit.

Where there is any trauma, I don't doubt any degree of dissociation.

[finding_my_way]

i am still just unsure where i fit. it just leaves me with way more questions. it's also the fact the way she talks at times leads me to feel she is talking more about the dissociation than anything else, esp. talking about how i have an inner regulator (that has thrown images at me or sometimes talked in her voice but for whom i have not really 'met' before like i did others in the past who are not really that active anymore.)

i think it bothers me so much just because what i have experienced to me doesn't fit the borderline criteria and it feels like i am not believed or something with my experiences of having parts 'just' because they maybe didn't present themselves like the criteria says they 'should' in the DSM....which i guess is why they say there is a spectrum for various things including dissociation, borderline, and other disorders.

i am more myself and not so fragmented now, at least not near as much...except it still can affect me when i am very stressed or things in my life are too much to handle. i guess it doesn't matter so much what a professional thinks because i am the one living it.

i think i have so many overlapping symptoms that it is hard to actually 100% diagnose me...which is fine by me too.

I've so looked at borderline symptoms, and it's like not me. I tried to relate....Nope.

My mood swings are automatic like. I looked at borderline though, but the others are so triggered. They are so like opinionated! Lol

[SydneyD30]

this is just mho but..........i have heard that about 80% of people diagnosed with BPD have had trauma histories, and only 20% do not. Well then 80% are misdiagnosed. Trauma is TRAUMA. Complex PTSD has several overlapping symptoms with BPD, but it is not the same. again...just my 2 cents. I am glad I have not been one of the misdiagnosed and that my T gets complex ptsd.

[valdeneu]

Originally Posted by AlwaysChanging2

I did some reading and studies in BPD, and what I got out of it (fact or fiction), that BPD alters are facets of a singularity where DID is a true multiplicity. I was just in DBT and I couldn't relate because our behavior patterns changes with whose up front. Since I went the second tme, it just was so not me, so we quit.

Where there is any trauma, I don't doubt any degree of dissociation.

I have a sort of BPD-lite with dissociative episodes, and your explanation of BPD alters being facets of a singularity makes so much sense to me. I always thought it was a bit weird that my 'alter' (definitely not the best word in my case) is very much an unformed person. My 'alter' is actually just everything that I am not - which was explained to me recently (by the joint effort of 2 counsellors) as being a part of myself that I have split off and disallowed myself to be.

Originally Posted by SydneyD30

this is just mho but..........i have heard that about 80% of people diagnosed with BPD have had trauma histories, and only 20% do not. Well then 80% are misdiagnosed. Trauma is TRAUMA. Complex PTSD has several overlapping symptoms with BPD, but it is not the same. again...just my 2 cents. I am glad I have not been one of the misdiagnosed and that my T gets complex ptsd.

I have basically no trauma history, but I know a fair bit about trauma-related illness. There are a lot of illnesses where a high proportion of people have a trauma history - PTSD is, arguably, poorly named, as it refers to one specific constellation of symptoms which can occur after experiencing trauma. C-PTSD is kind of an extension of PTSD which reaches towards the personality disorders, characterised by trauma-related cognitive distortions. It is definitely related to BPD, but people with BPD who have experienced trauma do not necessarily have C-PTSD, as they may not experience symptoms such as intrusive thoughts about traumatic experiences. PTSD is actually a minority reaction to trauma - many people experience trauma but are not traumatised, although they may develop other mental health problems, such as BPD or schizophrenia.

Like DID, structural dissociation can happen. Here's some lit on it because I'm not a professional.

[Izo39]

So yes I also have been diagnosed with BPD and have Dissociative symptoms.
I also never really have "fit" into the BPD diagnosis 100% I also have been diagnosed with having Schizoaffective Dissorder so my Dissociative problems could be from that.

I'm sorry, that link didn't happen....

Borderline Personality Disorder - Dissociative Identity Disorder, Dissociation and Trauma Disorders

Dissociation can happen from physical and other mental disorders.

Everyone dissociates to one degree or another. We special ones take it a step further! Lol

The DSM-5 includes "severe dissociative symptoms" in their criteria for BPD. You need to talk to your T to verify.

Hope this helps.

[finding_my_way]

Originally Posted by AlwaysChanging2

I'm sorry, that link didn't happen....

Borderline Personality Disorder - Dissociative Identity Disorder, Dissociation and Trauma Disorders

Dissociation can happen from physical and other mental disorders.

Everyone dissociates to one degree or another. We special ones take it a step further! Lol

The DSM-5 includes "severe dissociative symptoms" in their criteria for BPD. You need to talk to your T to verify.

Hope this helps.

thanks, yeah. i know BPD also includes dissociation. i just read that it was 'different' from having parts, fragments, alters, etc. whatever the 'technical' term even is lol

all i really care about is that i don't really fit the BPD criteria much anymore because it has really just not even helped me. i would think if you are diagnosed with something, the prescribed 'therapy,' etc. would be beneficial, but it did nothing for me (DBT) when i did try it....and my symptoms have also been managed for years now that used to be quite distressing to me (a lot less feeling 'too' much, self harm, etc.).

i feel like a lot of the time, in my head, it's an alternate world..or a lot of alternate lives...sometimes it comes to the external world and feels like the twilight zone, but it's never lived 'outside, 'just inside......and i do not really 'know' what those other worlds/lives are....it's almost like dreams/day dreams but not.

Originally Posted by finding_my_way

thanks, yeah. i know BPD also includes dissociation. i just read that it was 'different' from having parts, fragments, alters, etc. whatever the 'technical' term even is lol

all i really care about is that i don't really fit the BPD criteria much anymore because it has really just not even helped me. i would think if you are diagnosed with something, the prescribed 'therapy,' etc. would be beneficial, but it did nothing for me (DBT) when i did try it....and my symptoms have also been managed for years now that used to be quite distressing to me (a lot less feeling 'too' much, self harm, etc.).

i feel like a lot of the time, in my head, it's an alternate world..or a lot of alternate lives...sometimes it comes to the external world and feels like the twilight zone, but it's never lived 'outside, 'just inside......and i do not really 'know' what those other worlds/lives are....it's almost like dreams/day dreams but not.

Ya...I did DBT too, and was done after 2 meets because we were paying to sit there in a trance like state because everything they talked about I didn't have a problem with, as far as I can tell. Wasting my time, if done right, can be free....

[finding_my_way]

Originally Posted by AlwaysChanging2

Ya...I did DBT too, and was done after 2 meets because we were paying to sit there in a trance like state because everything they talked about I didn't have a problem with, as far as I can tell. Wasting my time, if done right, can be free....

the dbt i did was free, but i was so dissociative then that it was useless...and it triggered me because of the people. i couldn't follow through with the homework they gave which was probably seen as 'not trying'. just wasn't the right place for me, and i'd refuse to ever do it again. cbt though was useful for me, maybe more the person who was running the group helped that though.

Originally Posted by finding_my_way

the dbt i did was free, but i was so dissociative then that it was useless...and it triggered me because of the people. i couldn't follow through with the homework they gave which was probably seen as 'not trying'. just wasn't the right place for me, and i'd refuse to ever do it again. cbt though was useful for me, maybe more the person who was running the group helped that though.

That's exactly what I thought! If a different alter showed up each time, it doesn't make much sense....which is what happened. Besides, everything they was teaching was so 101.

[Systeminthesky]

Yes. I was originally diagnosed with BPD when I was 17. I carried that diagnosis, along with Bipolar II (rapid cycling) until about 5 years ago, when my therapist at the time diagnosed me with Complex PTSD. That shifted some of the focus onto the trauma aspects and eventually, I was diagnosed with DID. I still hold the BPD diagnosis because I technically still fit the criteria (or at least some Parts do). I sorta hate the BPD label, but I'm trying to understand how it all incorporates into the bigger picture.