[TrailRunner14]

This was mentioned in a thread, on another subforum, and it has peaked my curiosity again.

I've read a bit about it, but I don't really know what it is really about. For some reason it really scares me. That makes no sense I know.

My counselor has mentioned it, and told me it was totally up to me.

Can anyone, who has experienced it, share what they have experienced?

Here is my concern and my understanding of it, from what I have read:

- It's a left brain/right brain connection to process a memory.

- It can be done by several different approaches - physical eye movement left to right, hand squeezes - left to right, also saw an iphone app with lights that go left to right in circles? There was a warning with that app to be careful about using this on your own. ?

- If it helps to process a memory, that I don't have the ending to, does it send it flooding into my conscious recall? What will that do to me?

- There has been warnings from some of the things that I have read, that say not to do this with someone who is not trained in this. That's a bit disturbing!

These all may be concerns that are not valid, but I was looking for information about what this really was, and if anyone had experienced healing from it.

Thank you!

[Out There]

Yes , I had EMDR and did well with it. My T was a clinical psychologist with 10 years experience. We used the machine with the bilateral headphone tones and vibrating paddles , there are several methods. It works on " groups '' of feelings , so you might focus on one incident and the distraction / stimulation lets your mind free associate and bring up other memories and feelings. I was working on one thing and it went back to my first job. I never regretted it and would do it again.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Out There

Yes , I had EMDR and did well with it. My T was a clinical psychologist with 10 years experience. We used the machine with the bilateral headphone tones and vibrating paddles , there are several methods. It works on " groups '' of feelings , so you might focus on one incident and the distraction / stimulation lets your mind free associate and bring up other memories and feelings. I was working on one thing and it went back to my first job. I never regretted it and would do it again.

Thank you! That gives me a reassurance.

I'm not sure why I'm so afraid of seeing what I can't remember. There is a part of me that wants ONLY THAT. Truth. It could not be as bad as a part of me thinks it is. I'm only going on the feelings that I've always know. Fear.

I think I will entertain it in my mind. It could be the door I've been looking for.

[TrailRunner14]

Just wondering. Was it a place that you were "frozen" in? A place that you didn't know the outcome of?

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[Out There]

It was kind of like that I think. There was a lot of fear. EMDR has phases and there's work before the reprocessing starts. I felt very " stuck ' - the trauma had become so repetitive and overwhelming that I couldn't process it. And I guess a part of me did want only that. It's like a can of worms that you want to keep the lid on , and the can is under pressure. Is the feeling the not knowing what the outcome will be when you take the lid off the can , or that you will remember something ? I see people on here close to breakthroughs , but they fear feeling the feelings will destroy them. I feel like saying " No , you'll be OK ! ". But its that fear. EMDR is difficult as any trauma work is. It's like opening doors , yes , I thought of it like being like lock gates , you don't open them all at once because you get a flood , you open them slowly and carefully. It's also a bit like having a washing machine that doesn't really work properly. You'll put stuff in and get a bit of processing but the dirty washing will back up. It's like getting the machine working properly , you'll put the washing through , and then you'll go back and put through the earlier dirty washing.

[TrailRunner14]

That gives me a strength. Thank you!! Tears came. I believe it is in a response to this maybe. Or.. A complete disconnectedness from my h who told me I'd be ok.

They still came. I'm thankful they did. I'm not really concerned if he understands right now. I need it for me.

That ok. Right?

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[Out There]

That's OK.

[TrailRunner14]

Thank you! I went back and read your reply in a better moment.

I'm going to trust that it will get me to where I've been pushing to get to.

I don't really understand the feeling of wanting to know the truth and being afraid of knowing it. That really makes no sense to my logical mind.

To feel safe is what my heart strains for.

I feel so out there right now. Please forgive me.

Thank you!

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[Luce]

Originally Posted by TrailRunner14

I don't really understand the feeling of wanting to know the truth and being afraid of knowing it. That really makes no sense to my logical mind.

To feel safe is what my heart strains for.

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I think it makes sense. I read the other day that dissociation is the child's way of separating the emotional and cognitive experience of an event so that she can do (the active behavioral aspect) what is required of her in the moment.
Reconnecting with the dissociated emotion and knowing requires facing head on what was too overwhelming to feel and to know in the past. All the dissociative defenses since then have been working to keep that overwhelm at bay, because there was no other known strategy for surviving it.

It is one thing to know that the 'way through' is to face that which was dissociated, and quite another to overcome the lifelong defense of fleeing it.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Luce

It is one thing to know that the 'way through' is to face that which was dissociated, and quite another to overcome the lifelong defense of fleeing it.

Thank you for saying this. I've shared with my counselor that if something happened that was so bad I couldn't handle it then, I sure don't want to go back and see it now! What would it do to me now? There is a fear that it would shatter who I am.

That may be irrational, but it is the truth of my heart.


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[Out There]

Meeting your true self is scary. My life unravelled ( still happening ). The shattering of who we believe or think we are , the things that are written so deep in the psyches script that we need help and support to rewrite. But to live authenticity and say " Hey , I'm still here - it didn't destroy me ! ". That's an ongoing work. It takes courage.

[TrailRunner14]

You are very brave OT. It is hard work. My heart needs to full agree too, so it can fully take it in.

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[kecanoe]

Originally Posted by TrailRunner14

Thank you for saying this. I've shared with my counselor that if something happened that was so bad I couldn't handle it then, I sure don't want to go back and see it now! What would it do to me now? There is a fear that it would shatter who I am.

That may be irrational, but it is the truth of my heart.


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I SO agree with this! One of my ts says that I am afraid of my feelings and she is right.
But EMDR has helped me. In fact, one of the things that I like about it is that lots of memories get sorted out at one time and then they don't bug me anymore.
My T also uses headphones and buzzy things that you hold. I understand that the light moving can be bad for someone with migraine or seizures.
One example of something that I sorted out thru EMDR is a job change that is coming up that I was dissociating over. In an EMDR session, I realized that those feelings are rooted in my experiences when my baby brother was born-like 50 years ago. I still have some work to do with those experiences, but my job change is now okay and I am not switching or even stressing over it.
With EMDR you start by identifying a feeling off of a list (negative cognition) and then identifying what would be the opposite feeling off of another list. At the end of the session, you repeat the good feeling several times and contain the emotions that are stirred up. I have found myself to be a lot less worked up between EMDR sessions than I get between other sessions.

[TrailRunner14]

It may just be where I am right now. I'm frozen in an event that I don't know the end of. I went away. Dissociated from it. Split.

I can see the events that happen up to a certain point and then it goes away.

The thing is. I'm stuck here. I'm seeing the video of it until it shuts off. Now. In this moment, it's cycling itself and I have no ending to the moment/event.

It could be me thinking the worst case, don't want to go there. I would love to imagine that I really
know what happened and it was not as bad as my heart imagines.

There is something inside that is very afraid. I really don't know how to rationalize that out.

So, the idea that EMDR could make this REAL to me in a moment of time HERE. It's a bit disturbing.

I truly want knowledge and understanding. Just not sure what it would look like in that moment.

I had a flashback with my counselor and I didn't realize it until a few days later. The pieces came together and it took me weeks to get myself back together.

I feel like I'm babbling but that is what is going through my head.

I want to. For freedom. I'm afraid. For the consequences.

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[pattijane]

As a recently retired psychologist, I used EMDR therapy as my primary psychotherapy treatment and I've also personally had EMDR therapy for anxiety, panic, grief, and “small t” trauma. As a client, EMDR worked extremely well and also really fast. As an EMDR therapist, and in my (now retired) role as a facilitator who trained other therapists in EMDR therapy (certified by the EMDR International Association and trained by the EMDR Institute, both of which I strongly recommend in an EMDR therapist) I have used EMDR therapy successfully with panic disorders, PTSD (acute and chronic), anxiety, social anxiety, depression, grief, body image, phobias, distressing memories, bad dreams, and many other problems. It's a very gentle method with no significant "down-side" so that in the hands of a professional EMDR therapist, there should be no freak-outs or worsening of day-to-day functioning.

One of the initial phases (Phase 2) in EMDR psychotherapy involves preparing for memory processing or desensitization (memory processing or desensitization - phases 3-6 - is often what is referred to as "EMDR" which is actually an 8-phase method of psychotherapy). In this phase resources are "front-loaded" so that you have a "floor" or "container" to help with processing the really hard stuff, as well as creating strategies if you're triggered in everyday life. In Phase 2 you learn a lot of great coping strategies and self-soothing techniques which you can use during EMDR processing or anytime you feel the need. There is a special EMDR protocol for dissociative disorders and complex PTSD. The treatment of trauma and dissociation with EMDR (or any therapy) requires special/extra training. Be absolutely certain the therapist has specialized training in complex PTSD, as well as advanced training in EMDR therapy. Always talk with your therapist at the beginning of your work about what you already know is grounding for you.

In phase 2 you learn how to access a “Safe or Calm Place” which you can use at ANY TIME during EMDR processing (or on your own) if it feels scary, or too emotional, too intense. One of the key assets of EMDR is that YOU, the client, are in control NOW, even though you weren’t in the past, during traumatic events. You NEVER need re-live an experience or go into great detail, ever! You NEVER need to go through the entire memory. YOU can decide to keep the lights (or the alternating sounds and/or tactile pulsars, or the waving hand, or any method of bilateral stimulation that feels okay to you and your parts) going, or stop them, whichever helps titrate – measure and adjust the balance or “dose“ of the processing. During EMDR processing there are regular “breaks” and you can control when and how many but the therapist should be stopping the bilateral stimulation every 25-50 passes of the lights to ask you to take a deep breath and say just a bit of what you’re noticing, anything different, any changes. (The stimulation should not be kept on continuously, because there are specific procedures that need to be followed to process the memory). The breaks help keep a “foot in the present” while you’re processing the past. Again, and I can’t say this enough, YOU ARE IN CHARGE so YOU can make the process tolerable. And your therapist should be experienced in the EMDR techniques that help make it the gentlest and safest way to detoxify bad life experiences and build resources. Your therapist should also be using a variety of techniques to make painful processing less painful, like suggesting you turn the scene in your mind to black and white, lower the volume, or, erect a bullet-proof glass wall between you and the painful scene, or, imagine the abuser speaking in a Donald Duck voice... and so forth. There are a lot of these kinds of "interventions" that ease the processing. They are called "cognitive interweaves" that your therapist can use, and that also can help bring your adult self's perspective into the work (or even an imaginary Adult Perspective). Such interweaves are based around issues of Safety, Responsibility, and Choice. So therapist questions like "are you safe now?" or "who was responsible? and "do you have more choices now?" are all very helpful in moving the processing along.

Grounding exercises are essential. You can use some of the techniques in Dr. Shapiro's new book "Getting Past Your Past: Take Control of Your Life with Self-Help Techniques from EMDR." Dr. Shapiro is the founder/creator of EMDR but all the proceeds from the book go to two charities: the EMDR Humanitarian Assistance Program and the EMDR Research Foundation). The book is an easy read, helps you understand what's "pushing" your feelings and behavior, helps you connect the dots from past experiences to current life. Also gives lots of really helpful ways that are used during EMDR therapy to calm disturbing thoughts and feelings.

[pattijane]

As a recently retired psychologist, I used EMDR therapy as my primary psychotherapy treatment and I've also personally had EMDR therapy for anxiety, panic, grief, and “small t” trauma. As a client, EMDR worked extremely well and also really fast. As an EMDR therapist, and in my (now retired) role as a facilitator who trained other therapists in EMDR therapy (certified by the EMDR International Association and trained by the EMDR Institute, both of which I strongly recommend in an EMDR therapist) I have used EMDR therapy successfully with panic disorders, PTSD (acute and chronic), anxiety, social anxiety, depression, grief, body image, phobias, distressing memories, bad dreams, and many other problems. It's a very gentle method with no significant "down-side" so that in the hands of a professional EMDR therapist, there should be no freak-outs or worsening of day-to-day functioning.

EMDR therapy is considered a first-line treatment for trauma by organizations such as ISTSS (International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies), the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the Department of Veteran Affairs, the Department of Defense, the Departments of Health in Northern Ireland, UK, Israel, the Netherlands, France, and other countries and organizations.

The World Health Organization published Guidelines for the management of conditions that are specifically related to stress: Trauma-focused CBT and EMDR are the only therapies recommended for children, adolescents and adults with PTSD. "Like CBT with a trauma focus, EMDR therapy aims to reduce subjective distress and strengthen adaptive cognitions related to the traumatic event. Unlike CBT with a trauma focus, EMDR does not involve (a) detailed descriptions of the event, (b) direct challenging of beliefs, (c) extended exposure, or (d) homework." (Geneva, WHO, 2013)

One of the initial phases (Phase 2) in EMDR psychotherapy involves preparing for memory processing or desensitization (memory processing or desensitization - phases 3-6 - is often what is referred to as "EMDR" which is actually an 8-phase method of psychotherapy). In this phase resources are "front-loaded" so that you have a "floor" or "container" to help with processing the really hard stuff, as well as creating strategies if you're triggered in everyday life. In Phase 2 you learn a lot of great coping strategies and self-soothing techniques which you can use during EMDR processing or anytime you feel the need. There is a special EMDR protocol for dissociative disorders and complex PTSD. The treatment of trauma and dissociation with EMDR (or any therapy) requires special/extra training. Be absolutely certain the therapist has specialized training in complex PTSD, as well as advanced training in EMDR therapy. Always talk with your therapist at the beginning of your work about what you already know is grounding for you.

In phase 2 you learn how to access a “Safe or Calm Place” which you can use at ANY TIME during EMDR processing (or on your own) if it feels scary, or too emotional, too intense. One of the key assets of EMDR is that YOU, the client, are in control NOW, even though you weren’t in the past, during traumatic events. You NEVER need re-live an experience or go into great detail, ever! You NEVER need to go through the entire memory. YOU can decide to keep the lights (or the alternating sounds and/or tactile pulsars, or the waving hand, or any method of bilateral stimulation that feels okay to you and your parts) going, or stop them, whichever helps titrate – measure and adjust the balance or “dose“ of the processing. During EMDR processing there are regular “breaks” and you can control when and how many but the therapist should be stopping the bilateral stimulation every 25-50 passes of the lights to ask you to take a deep breath and say just a bit of what you’re noticing, anything different, any changes. (The stimulation should not be kept on continuously, because there are specific procedures that need to be followed to process the memory). The breaks help keep a “foot in the present” while you’re processing the past. Again, and I can’t say this enough, YOU ARE IN CHARGE so YOU can make the process tolerable. And your therapist should be experienced in the EMDR techniques that help make it the gentlest and safest way to detoxify bad life experiences and build resources. Your therapist should also be using a variety of techniques to make painful processing less painful, like suggesting you turn the scene in your mind to black and white, lower the volume, or, erect a bullet-proof glass wall between you and the painful scene, or, imagine the abuser speaking in a Donald Duck voice... and so forth. There are a lot of these kinds of "interventions" that ease the processing. They are called "cognitive interweaves" that your therapist can use, and that also can help bring your adult self's perspective into the work (or even an imaginary Adult Perspective). Such interweaves are based around issues of Safety, Responsibility, and Choice. So therapist questions like "are you safe now?" or "who was responsible? and "do you have more choices now?" are all very helpful in moving the processing along.

Grounding exercises are essential. You can use some of the techniques in Dr. Shapiro's new book "Getting Past Your Past: Take Control of Your Life with Self-Help Techniques from EMDR." Dr. Shapiro is the founder/creator of EMDR but all the proceeds from the book go to two charities: the EMDR Humanitarian Assistance Program and the EMDR Research Foundation). The book is an easy read, helps you understand what's "pushing" your feelings and behavior, helps you connect the dots from past experiences to current life. Also gives lots of really helpful ways that are used during EMDR therapy to calm disturbing thoughts and feelings.

[TrailRunner14]

Thank you for all the information! I'm feeling a bit more open to the idea and it doesn't feel so intimidating. I'm going to talk more with my counselor about it.

I think if I had more grounding ability it may not seem so scary. Lot's to think about.

((( thankful hug )))