 |
| FAQ/Help |
| Calendar |
| Search |
|
#1
Nov 09, 2016, 09:57 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
im wanting to know the big differences and the little if possible
what would it be like for someone to live with severe dissociation and not develop such? i have heard that some with DID don't have PTSD... i have heard that some that have PTSD and have faced atrocities don't develop DID ... im trying to draw the lines, trying to find my place If someone can develop DID without PTSD ... then how is it that someone with severe ptsd and dissociative symptoms can not develop DID..? wouldn't it be easy enough for a person to say they indeed don't have DID..? for me i didn't even realize i had severe ptsd, is it feasible that one may not even realize DID/OSDD..? also looking for more understanding over OSDD and DID differences and what differentiates it from PTSD with severe dissociattive symptoms... just to add im not looking for a diagnosis of course.... im just looking for understanding... expanding my awareness... or trying to.... im trying to do treatment, trying to talk with people, but my resources are extremely limited so those whom i talk with are only able to help me so much...
__________________
|
 Fuzzybear, Wild Coyote
|
 Wild Coyote
|
|
#2
Nov 10, 2016, 12:02 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
The research papers I have read indicate that BPD and DID are caused at the same stage in life (childhood & adolesense) and the determining factor of which one is the severity, frequency and duration of trauma experienced by the individual. This is based on the individuals perception as to whether the level reaches a point that splits off a portion of their identity. Also from the papers I have studied, BPD and DID must be early onset to be considered, as in must begin in childhood or early adolesence. Where as PTSD could be caused and experienced at any age.
I would think PTSD would co-occur with either of BPD, DD or DID as they are both rooted in terrible experiences and if some is bad enough to cause a dossociative split, then I would think there would be PTSD envolved. Something to keep in mind with DID is that many psychologists/psychiatrists do not acknowledge the existence of it, and think it is an act. Though it is in the DSM, and I personally believe whole heartedly that it is real. I do think it is possible to have it an d not know. Though there would be signs like missing chunks of time, things moved around or bought that you dont remember, etc. It would be necessary for your professional diagnosing you to believe DID is a real disorder to really get an honest opinion on if you have it or not. I would think that a person with both PTSD and DD or DID may even dissociate or switch to another alter when something triggered a PTSD flashback. This is an actual research study done on the exact questions you pose. It is a technical read, but I found it to be awesome in covering the relationship of the disorders and ptsd. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4579511/ |
| Wild Coyote
|
| elevatedsoul, t0rtureds0ul, Wild Coyote
|
|
#3
Nov 10, 2016, 12:29 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
This page is really good at explaining dissociation, ES. Synthesis of Models
DID can only develop in the first 6 or so years of life, before the personality integrates. Once the developmental stage of personality integration has already occurred a person cannot develop DID. A person can develop OSDD when trauma occurs after this period of time however. That is... the ANP states and the EP states still dissociate, but the sense of identity ... of 'me-ness' is mostly retained. DID occurs before the identity has fused at all, so one sense of 'me-ness' for all self states is never achieved in the first place. PTSD can develop at any age, and can be concurrent with a diagnosis of either OSDD or DID. |
| Wild Coyote
|
| elevatedsoul, mindwrench, Wild Coyote, yagr
|
|
#4
Nov 10, 2016, 01:29 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
as short and simple as I can make it for you...
PTSD is things like having nightmares, having panic attacks, having flashbacks (some locations call flashbacks hallucinations), trouble concentrating, intrusive thoughts. the dissociative specifiers in PTSD are depersonalization and derealization symptoms. no dissociative alternate personalities included in the american diagnostics. OSDD is a mental disorder that has 4 different categories. this means a person does.....not....have to have alters to fit this diagnosis. out of the 4 categories there is only one category in this diagnosis where a person can have alternate personalities... the ones where you .....dont.... have alters are dissociative symptoms due to coersion\prolonged abuse (category \specifier number 2) this one is used for people who have been kidnappend, undergone abuse in cults, and political terrorism hostage\captive situations. dissociative symptoms that last less than a month\ short term dissociative problems (category specifier number 3) and the last one is dissociative trance.. this one is another dissociative category/ specifier where a person does not have alters. its where a person has times where they become catatonic ... unresponsive to whats going on around them because they are in a trance state of mind like being hypnotized but different and also a different kind of catatonic state than someone who is catatonic because of psychosis symptoms\ problems. the one OSDD category\specifier that does include having alters its different than having DID because there is .....less than marked discontinuity... in other words more co consciousness and less functioning problems, less memory problems, less of everything that is DID. in other words its like being integrated where the system gets along and works together like a team with very little memory problems. a lot of sharing information. this is different than having DID because DID has more discontinuity, more memory problems because theres less sharing, less team work more like each one doing their own thing rather than working together. my suggestion is contact your treatment providers who evaluated you in january. they will be able to tell you what your tests showed and whether you have OSDD or not. and if you dont agree with them you can ask them for a new evaluation. |
| elevatedsoul, Wild Coyote
|
| elevatedsoul, Wild Coyote
|
|
#5
Nov 10, 2016, 02:37 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
thank you for the responses, at the clinic i go to its not so focused on figuring things out... its kind of like when your car makes a strange noise and you take it to your neighbors friend...
he goes over a few things and tightens a few bolts and the noise stops but cant tell you exactly what was wrong, just that it seems to be doing a little better they are just interested in integrating me into society and having me recover well enough to become self sufficient... i dont really have a time line... my past is really messed up... so its difficult for me to say when things got really bad... i know it was before age 6 though, (as things were happening before i started school) and i believe that since i was born things have been messed up for me.... my therapist says that i get caught up in the details, which i know i do sometimes... but i am just looking for understanding on my personal experience, i want to understand myself and whats happening ( has happened my whole life ) i cant remember the articles i read about developing DID without PTSD but its just something i read a while back which confused me because i was also under the impression that only severe abuse enough to fragment the psyche would be able to cause DID but maybe resilience would cause a person not to develop PTSD...? i feel like i never had the chance to develop my personality, like i have something, but its not a personality as much as it is a survival tactic that is fluid... sense of identity confuses me because im who i am, there is no question about it... but for me to be able to chisel into stone what i am i cant do... besides using things like "Nice, Kind, Creative, Witty, Interesting" ect ect...? how does one define self? i think im having a great deal of time loss these past few ... months... and i cant even say that for sure... edit: we took the ACE test and i experienced it all, but maybe it wasnt so bad... i just woke up and its like 2:40am so im gonna turn off the computer and try to go back to sleep.. ill read that article in the morning <3 (glad i posted this thread, its something i have been wondering about for a while..)
__________________
|
| Wild Coyote
|
| Wild Coyote
|
|
#6
Nov 10, 2016, 12:13 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
@ Luce
thank you for the link i've read over that a few times i believe and it just confuses me more... i know amanda always says "sense of agency" maybe im just extremely fragmented... @mindwrench thanks i enjoy these articles there was a lot of bad stuff that happened... i guess im just interested in reading, not writing about because i dunno what to say right now... not sure what i wanted to say when i wrote.. iunno.. my therapist said that i live in a high stress state... that my ANS is maxed out and its causing me to just be dissociative.... i know im doing it constantly... but i feel so left out in the dark, i just wanna know whats really happening so i can try not to be afraid... try to believe in hope, that things can get better.. but everything feels so vague and out of touch that im so confused and nothing is really making sense... and feels like its getting worse because i cant figure things out and fix it...  i just wanna be normal and happy...
__________________
|
| Wild Coyote
|
| amandalouise, Wild Coyote
|
|
#7
Nov 10, 2016, 12:45 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Those of us who develop a dissociative disorder are genetically wired that way.
My sister asks me why I developed a dissociative disorder, when people, abused much worse than I, do not develop it. I told her it is genetic. It is biology. It is brain wiring. I was kept in non-stop emotional pain and under non-stop psychological stress from the day I was born until five. Most of the abuse came from my two-year older brother but my Mom had no parenting skills and she traumatized me also. There was continual physical abuse from my brother and mother but it generally was not violent or scarring. Some people say that the development of a dissociative disorder is a defense mechanism but a toddler's brain is not developed enough to consciously plan anything. The toddler's brain simply gets broken before it has a chance to develop. |
| elevatedsoul, Wild Coyote
|
|
#8
Nov 10, 2016, 01:09 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
put simply sense of agency is things like how much control the alters and those reside with in have, what each alters job, purpose and reason for being created is, how much awareness there is for each individual alter and those they reside with in, that kinds of stuff. here in my location Dissociation is the normal reaction (feeling spaced out, foggy minded, numb, disconnected (like an observer rather than a participant)....to a trigger (anything positive or negative that causes a person to feel their dissociative ...symptoms.... dissociation becomes DID when the severity of dissociative .....symptoms...... meet the diagnostic criteria for DID. to read more about sense of agency and DID you can click on the links at the bottom of my post. |
| Wild Coyote
|
| Wild Coyote
|
|
#9
Nov 10, 2016, 02:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
| Wild Coyote
|
| TrailRunner14, Wild Coyote
|
|
#10
Nov 10, 2016, 04:42 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
im going to try to remember to talk to my case manager about getting a more detailed explanation of the examination i had in january, if nothing else i am quite interested in hearing the IQ results...
thanks, i feel awful because i dont know what im experiencing - alone, yet strangely resentful of myself because of different ideas... im trying so hard
__________________
|
| Wild Coyote
|
| Wild Coyote
|
|
#11
Nov 11, 2016, 10:42 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
whats a switch feel like to one experiencing it?
difference between borderline switch and dissociative switch?
__________________
|
| Wild Coyote
|
|
#12
Nov 11, 2016, 12:36 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
that said short and simple... differences between borderline and a dissociative disorder is in the diagnostics for each disorder, and information that you can not find online because you have to go through treatment providers.... for example if you have borderline personality disorder (a mood and behavior disorder) you know what it feels like when your moods and behaviors switch and you fit the diagnostic criteria for that disorder. for some people they feel one way for others they feel something different...(purposely keeping it vague so as to not add to your confusion of what your own problems are vs what you are researching) a dissociative disorder is in the dissociative disorders category because its key symptom is dissociation. a person who has a dissociative disorder knows whether they are feeling their dissociative symptoms or not. each person has their own dissociative symptoms and triggers (again purposely keeping it vague so as not to cause you more confusion as to what and how you feel vs what you are researching and possibly self diagnosing/ self trying to fit into what may not already be there for you) for some people that means they feel one way and for others they feel another way....example when I am feeling my dissociation symptom I feel numb where as when my wife feels her dissociative symptom she doesnt feel numb. my suggestion since you are already getting too much information (evidenced by your statement of not knowing what to believe and confusion) instead of looking to us for how you should or should not feel, what problems you should or should not be having and all that stuff, go on what your treatment providers have already diagnosed you with and contact them. let them know you want to know how you feel when you switch and they will help you to discover what dissociation feels like to you. |
| elevatedsoul, Wild Coyote
|
| elevatedsoul, Luce, Wild Coyote
|
|
#13
Nov 11, 2016, 09:45 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I to agree with ALs advice to take a break with the research, although I know it is an obsessive thing for you and stopping will not be easy.
Is it possible for you to change therapists at all, or are you very limited in your selection? I ask because I have just started seeing a forensic trauma therapist and although I have only seen her twice so far I can tell she has a great deal of expertise in dealing with trauma and dissociation, and it makes a difference. I have gotten much more out of my two sessions with her than I ever have with all my previous therapists (in this location) combined. What makes it different is she knows what she is seeing (in me) and knows how to respond to it in a way that supports me to stay grounded and focused. |
| elevatedsoul, Wild Coyote
|
| amandalouise, elevatedsoul, Wild Coyote
|
|
#14
Nov 12, 2016, 08:27 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
thanks, i have actually been taking a little break .. but it makes me feel lazy, like im not trying to understand or trying to get better?
but i feel a bit burnt out, like running myself in circles... like 'you already know you fool, why are you trying to find a different explanation?' i just hate being wrong i guess get caught up in the details and stuff i guess... im still working on disability so hopefully it will come through within the next couple months so that i can have the insurance i need to get good treatment and diagnosis... at this point, i just keep telling myself this is not normal.. this is not normal... people around me are not like this, people dont do these things... people are people, and i feel like a monster, if that makes sense... i want to have a past, a present, and a future... i want so bad, but i just cant stay present... i guess... im so disgusted with my life that i just blocked it all out or something, i dont know... but i guess at this point its not so important, whats important is to keep focus on my treatment providers and learning proper healthy grounding techniques... and to work on the things that i can work on, such as meeting new people and working on my substance use.. im just tired of spinning wheels in place, will be 27 years old in less than a month and look at me  i feel so pathetic... thanks for the advice and putting up with the wacky stuff i do.. im trying really hard not to think about the details lately, honestly im not sure why i posted this because its a question ive been running around my head for ever now but have been just trying to take it easy for a while till i get insurance... i just feel dead... i haven't been alive for a very long time... i appreciate it, thanks for not getting mad at me.. my therapist said that there are hot and cold symptoms to trauma/stress, and that i live in a dissociative state because i dont want to go backwards through the experience to feel the things that i went through... the video and information she gave to me said that often severe ptsd and trauma type symtpoms get dx as bipolar (which explains why they kept telling me that i was bipolar) due to the similarity in symptoms appearance... but they wont give me a good dx because im complicated or something or want too many details... they changed it from bipolar to emotional disturbance, ptsd, adhd, and something i dunno even... but i feel like im burnt out and if i let go then im gonna stop caring... im fighting so hard though, but its so hard my therapist is cool but she is just kind of like a starter therapist for me i guess... someone that can show me that i can trust them because she doesnt specialize in these things... she says she has alot of other clients like me though so i dunno... most of them are women though, go figure right, with my history and abuse the last thing i need is more things making me question whether or not im gay or a woman... sigh anyway, thanks again - i appreciate it.. <3 love
__________________
|
| amandalouise, Fuzzybear, Wild Coyote
|
| amandalouise, Wild Coyote
|
| Reply |
This is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.|
|
My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.
Linear Mode
