Answering psych test questions

Hello and thank you in advance for any assistance and direction you may be able to offer me.

I have recently been referred for psychiatric testing. I have two issues with this.

#1 I could make a convincing argument that I know the tests better than the test administrator does. I expect that the battery will consist of the MMPI-2, the MCMI-3, the Rorschach ink blot test, and the Kohs block design test - it's the normal battery given to patients referred to psych testing in this part of the world. Perhaps five years ago, I knew as much about the MMPI-2 as anyone alive. It's a brash statement so let me explain. When I applied for, and was subsequently granted, membership to Mensa, my IQ was measured at 172. I'm sufficiently intelligent for the aforementioned claim to be true assuming I had the motivation to make it so. I educated myself on and due to my fluency in the MMPI-2, I believe its ability to evaluate me has been compromised.

Regarding the Rorschach test: The truth of the matter is that I am pathologically literal. The ink blots look like ink that has been blotted to me. That said, I can't un-know that the first ink blot is a bat, badger, butterfly or even a coat of arms if I am referred to Europe for testing. If I didn't know the 'correct' responses, the presence of red is a dead giveaway for elements of hostility or sexuality and the shading on the mother card nearly begs the subject to identify the card with something feminine. I don't see it but I intellectualize the elements - so a random selection of cards does no good either.

Conclusions will be drawn from my results. Conclusions drawn by a person who knows nothing about me except the test results. A true (and consistent) response to questions like, “I have many ideas that are ahead of the times” (MCMI-3) may result in findings of narcissism when in fact, they are realistic. I live in a world in which the average IQ is closer to that of a chimpanzee than it is to mine – of course I have ideas that are ahead of the times.

The Kohs Block Design Test has nine cards that can be completed multiple ways. The fault in the test is that there are more complicated ways to achieve the result they are looking for but these results aren't even in the literature. Timing me, even if my results are exceptional, leads to inaccurate results as I have to continuously reject correct answers that I know won't be on the answer key. That information would be useful for someone to know, but no one is going to ask.

Incidentally, I have given a copy of the above to my psychiatrist. His response is included in my second concern.

#2 - I analyze everything. There is no simple answer for me. For example, the true or false question, "I believe people often lie to me." How are we defining 'lie'? Are we talking about the 350 pound sixteen year old girl with a ready smile who always wears long sleeves to hide the cuts on her arms who tells me that she is happy? Because if this is the case then it is an easy yes. People have lies they tell themselves and since they do not know the truth themselves, of course they lie to me. Or must it be a conscious lie as in, "I love the way you got your haircut." Or perhaps it must be malicious, "I'm from the Internal Revenue Service and I'm here to help."

My psychiatrist suggests that I answer the questions without thinking - 'like you're a twelve year old'; which simply tells me that he has no idea how precocious I was as a twelve year old. Here's an example of the problem - don't think about it, just answer: "Who discovered America?" Your first response, if you are like most people, is Christopher Columbus. But you know that isn't right. The Vikings were here before him - and the American Indians before that. So what do I put? It feels as if he is suggesting changing the way I think for this test so they can get an accurate picture of how I think. It seems ludicrous.

I didn't think anyone used the ink blot test anymore. I took the Y-BOCS test for OCD, every other assessment has been a chat. You have no need to worry about your assessment. It is not a pass/fail. You will not get in trouble for doing poorly. There is no award for doing well.

I have a question. I ask out of curiosity so I won't be offended if you tell me to mind my own business. I do hope that you won't be offended by the question. It might even lead to a helpful response. Why were you referred for this testing? Are you basically concerned that the test results will be skewed or misinterpreted by your unique situation?
Okay that was two questions The answer to the second question may be obvious but I just want to be clear about what it is you really want.

I am grateful that you took the time to ask the question(s) and not offended at all.

I have been pretty content throughout my life. Even when life threw some pretty rough, by anyone's standards, stuff my way - I found a way to maintain my happiness and push through any roadblocks. Then I was diagnosed with an auto-immune disease. My strength left me and pushing myself equaled death. I couldn't work any longer, and couldn't support my family. In the meantime, the auto-immune disease started playing havoc with my body and the pain became unbearable, then I couldn't sleep.

I applied for disability three and a half years ago. I still haven't received a hearing date. I live in a state in which it is against the law for a doctor to prescribe narcotics for chronic pain conditions; I have seven of them. So cascading weakness, abject poverty, unrelenting pain, and a healthy dose of hopelessness brought me to depression. My primary care physician, seeing the marked change in me, referred me to a psychiatrist.

Partly. It's complicated as there are many facets to this.

First, I know that any findings will only help my case for disability. There is no way I should be denied based on my physical condition but I've been denied twice and now the hearing. I know that I can manipulate the test results to insure that I do get disability but don't want to. But I have the 'zero confidence in the government' thing going on. I resent being put in this position.

Second, I have recently been diagnosed with schizotypal personality disorder. The diagnosis is ludicrous - seriously. I'm certainly not the first patient to resist a diagnosis but the reasons for him making the diagnosis are simply wrong. For instance, he suggests that I am engaging in 'magical thinking' because I claim to know xyz about person x. But here's the thing:

I've written a book about body language and tells that has been sufficiently well received that it has gotten me an invite to speak to groups from both the FBI and ironically, the American Psychiatric Association. My skills are world class. I've spent twenty-four years as a professional poker player - reading people is what I do.

When the psychiatrist asks his twenty-three year old female client who is employed as a stripper, has eighty-two tattoo's and thirty-six piercings as is estranged from her parents because her dad is an 'asshole' and her mother is stupid...when he asks her if her father ever touched her inappropriately as a child, she may think he's got a sixth sense - but he doesn't, it's just the obvious place to start with what he knows. It looks like magic to her because it's above her skill set. My skill set on reading people is beyond my psychiatrists - that's all.

He simply doesn't listen. He hears and then makes assumptions that are actually extremely reasonable nine times out of ten...but not this time. He won't take extenuating circumstances into account - like my skill above. There are others. Real quick - a lack of sex life is typical with this diagnosis and I am in a sexless marriage. My wife of thirty years who I love dearly, has been raped more times than one would think possible, including once since we've been married. It's an issue for her and when and if she is ready to deal with it, we will deal with it. She is so much more than a sexual being, and I am privileged to have had the opportunity to love her and be loved by her. The fact that we don't have sex is not a symptom of a personality disorder in me.

Stop checking boxes and listen!

Third, I am an American Indian and have been a practicing Buddhist for thirty-seven years. These questions are near impossible for me to answer for cultural and religious reasons. There are no answers that are true OR false; they are both true and false AND neither true and false. The latter makes sense to me.

In fact, my spirit animal, intricately connected to both my religious and cultural beliefs, is being considered some of that magical thinking he is convinced of. Being Native American and holding Native American traditions and beliefs is not a mental illness.

I don't mind them knowing who I am. I don't mind sharing who I am with them, but these tests cannot measure that because the questions are geared toward a different mindset. If I must answer these questions, then I must pretend to be someone I am not in order to do so, because I can't - and that doesn't help anyone.

I do hope that made sense...it can be difficult to convey with the challenges of language across cultural chasms.

I just wrote my second book - a spiritual fantasy for young adults. It's young hero is teased throughout the book by his guide and mentor for asking two questions for the price of one. I smiled when I read this.

I know this was long. I hope that it was clear enough with little superfluous stuffing and thank you for taking the time to read it.

It wasn't that long and it was interesting and informative. I think I understand for the most part. I identify with your take on the nature of complex (or simple) questions based on a sort of "we all believe this" mindset. I myself am not a genius nor gifted intellectually but I am still amazed at what seemingly intelligent people either don't see or can't see.
I wish you well in your disability case. Keep in mind that the people who will make the decision aren't necessarily fair or wise and have the authority to deny your claim even if the person they hire to evaluate you declares you disabled by medical standards. Good luck, I wish you well.

just a bit about the ink blot test....you saying they just look like ink that has been blotted ....well thats exactly what they are supposed to look like. short version one day someone spilled some ink. he was amazed that he could see shapes in it. so he blotted it and showed it to his friends and was again amazed that some saw shapes some saw nothing but blots of ink. this person the inventor of the ink blots figured out that those who saw animals were animal lovers, those that saw spilled ink frequently spilled their own ink bottles, hence the Rorschach test was invented as a way to get incite to what kind of person is the one taking the test, are they a person that loves animals, has thoughts of suicide, has thoughts of self harm...what ever is seen with in the ink blots is individualized and theres no real right or wrong to it. it just tells the treatment provider your thinking process at the moment of you looking at them, just like if you have 5 people lay down in the grass on a sunny day and ask what kinds of clouds do you see, some will see animals, some will see just clouds, some will be able to invent some really elaborate stories around what the clouds are and what they are doing. clouds are just clouds ink blots are just ink blots but what you see in them tells you something about yourself.

as for the other tests you have mentioned well if you were tested before 2013 then you are in for quite a new experience. with the news diagnostics being used that also means new tests, new testing procedures. most of the new tests you can not find online yet unless you are treatment provider and most if not all locations, agencies and tests.....even treatment providers have to pay a handsome sum for them.

my suggestion dont worry so much about how you can know too much about them and get away with stuff. instead breath relax and take each question /each test as it comes and you will do fine.

I did not answer any of the religious questions and yet the built consistency was rated high...it stated I was truthful. You do not need to answer any of the religious questions. The only diagnoses that was given me was that I was severely depressed, MDD.

You can always refuse to take the tests.

Yep ink blot is still used.

I recommend just being yourself. Thinking of you *hugs*

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I took psychological testing and your missing a test theres the test were they give you a picture and make you tell a story about it there's the inkblot test theres the questionaire and there's an array of test you can't possibly know all the answers and you don't need to

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Psych testing can be used to assist/give more data to assist a psychologist in making a decision.

With all of your reasons given, why even make the appointment? You're kind of making the case that testing won't be valid for you. So why put yourself through it?

If you decide to take the tests just try to take it as objectively as possible. I think we all go in with preconceived ideas all we need to do is answer one question at a time. If you feel like manipulating the test then that is your choice but may lead to skewed results causing a waste of time and money.

I would take the test and try to answer as best that I could and see what it shows. Who knows you might be surprised.

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Because I am in the middle of a disability case and my attorney suggested I cooperate to help my chances. Since I can no longer work, receiving disability is crucial to my continued survival.

gayleggg - just for fun, pick a number 1 through 567 and I'll give you the test question on the MMPI. This example would be a bit more powerful if you were in front of me and watched me not look it up.

It's not that I have preconceived ideas about what the test will be like - I know exactly what the test is like - every question and how every answer is interpreted on every one of the 130 subscales. I don't know how to answer the questions now, at home, with no one watching. I don't understand a majority of the questions that seem so simple and straight-forward to others that they can't believe that I don't understand them even when I try to explain it to them.

The confusion these questions leave me with is multi-faceted. For instance, question twelve is, "My sex life is satisfactory." I don't have sex. But satisfactory means 'meeting needs' and I don't 'need' sex, so it is satisfactory. So what do I put? My best guess at an honest response would be 'true'. On the other hand, this question is paired with question fifty-six. The way that I answer that question truthfully (along with the answer to question twelve) indicates to the administrator of the test that I am 'demonstrating an unsophisticated attempt to deceive'. Since the truth is that I am not trying to deceive anyone - is it more truthful to answer in a manner that indicates I am not trying to deceive - or the way the answer first struck me?

Another good example, from another test, is, "People tend to lie to me often." What do they mean by 'lie'? Do they mean that the person is trying to deceive me - then my answer is, 'no, I don't believe that people try to deceive me.' Or, do they mean that people tend to say things to me that aren't true? Because my answer to that question is, 'yes, people do that all the time.'

That might seem like the same question to you but to me they are opposites. That's the way I think, and if they are trying to measure the way I think differently than most people, they can't give me questions that are meaningless to me.

So frustrated at the prospect...and so grateful you've chosen to respond.

I can see that this is very complicated for you. Under the circumstances I don't know the solution. Wish I could help.

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This isn't meant as criticism and I hope you don't take it as such but you may be overthinking this. I don't think you have to tailor your answers to appear disabled but if you think it would help I would see nothing wrong in that unless you just have rigid standards and you feel your actions would imperil your self respect. I don't think you need to deceive or manipulate to ensure a good result from this test. If I was in your position I wouldn't hesitate to do so. I'm sorry but my mind is very foggy today and I am not sure if you consider this as a moral dilemma or a practical one.

Yagr, you may be right that you know tests better than admins and that the test results may not reflect the entirety of your person, your issues and your social environment, to name a few things. From my point of view, it looks like you are over thinking it, which does not have to be a bad thing - it is your health after all. But in this case I think it's best to try answering the questions truthfully and without pondering excessively on a certain answer's impact on the overall result.
Mental health care is far from perfect. One of the things some of us have to come to terms with is putting ourselves in the care of people who don't know us and in some cases don't care to get to know us, or even help us.
However, you can't get help if you don't try the methods and treatments available and in the end, you have to consider the available options and alternatives and make an informed choice.
When you ask yourself what test designers had in mind when they drafted these standardized tests you might come to the conclusion that their main goal was to categorize you into one or more fields, so that you can receive adequate treatment. The tests were drafted for the general masses: women, men, high IQ individuals, low IQ individuals and so on. So sure, the tests lack personalization to some extent and as you said, might fail some people, but they provide a way to assess you and are part of the protocol for doctors in compiling your profile. They are obviously not all doctors rely on. Doctors and techs know the tests aren't fail proof. In hospitals patients often repeat them every few weeks to get a form of status quo.
If I was you, I would make sure there is always communication between you and your doctor(s). Express your discontent with any test results, questionable wording of tests and so on. That way, docs can make notes in your file, start a discussion on possible alternative treatments and so on. You are the one in charge for your health.

George, not at all (taking this as criticism) - and frankly, I get the sense from your responses that I have a fair chance of communicating effectively with you - which is far greater than I usually feel.

I'm assuming that the "People tend to lie to me often." diatribe I offered is a good example of what you referred to as 'overthinking'. Perhaps so, but it is how I think. It's how I think twenty-four/seven whether I am taking a test or speaking to my wife of thirty years (and with whom I'm the most comfortable). My point then is that this may be 'overthinking' by normal standards, it is just 'thinking' to me.

If so, then my thinking isn't normal. That seems to be the reason they want me to take the tests - to determine the anomalies in my thinking. But by telling me to think like them in order to answer the questions not only defeats the purpose, it is impossible! I don't know what a normal level of thinking looks like. My T has remarked on a number of occasions, "Don't you get exhausted thinking like this?" And every time he does, I ask him the same question, "Compared to what? I think like this all the time. What would I compare it too?" To which he nods his head, jots something down and doesn't answer my question.

It is both - but the moral dilemma is secondary, almost to a point of being academic. No, it's the practical matter of deciphering questions like the above, "People tend to lie to me often." I don't understand the question and THAT seems imminently more important and vital to diagnosing me than my answer - whatever my answer is. To me, the answer to that question is equal parts true and false; I might as well flip a coin. When I am in a position like that, I just analyze indefinitely and can't proceed.

From what I see it isn't that you are so literal but that you have blocked the ability for suggestion, even to yourself. There, imo, are fears behind your not being able to suppose or project imaginations upon anything and especially tests which evaluate!

Fear.
Perhaps you are afraid the doctors will discover whatever it is that keeps you bound. There's reasons behind all those tests for you... and the doctors are trying to find out why you are dissatisfied with life. They, as well as I, tend to think it is more than "just" your being literal.... for truly if you followed that train of thought for life, you would be the happiest person on earth!

Someone who takes things hour by hour as being what they truly are ("just inkblots") and not worrying about what they might be or what they might turn out to be later in the day... living only in the present where all things are not so bad...eh?

You, my friend, imnshpapo, are hiding yourself, fearful that what you might find might not be likable or appropriate. Believe me, you are who you are...and finding out why you are that way can help you live more enjoyably. The tests do not change who you are.... but can give you direction as to which way to go to change into who you really, literally, want to be.

If you think an answer is mostly true for you, mark true.

If you think an answer is mostly false for you, mark false.

I understand the analysis upon analysis. It sounds like you're sort of in the "paralysis of analysis mode" where you've analyzed things so much that you've reasoned that both T or F could apply. Full circle.

Thats why they make these tests this way. Its how you choose that matters, because you choose based on your experience of the question. And (as you know), different choices mean different things.

I also think you kind of shot yourself in the foot (to use a colloquialism), memorizing all of the MCMI-3 and MMPI-2 questions. Part of the value of these tests is maintaining the secrecy of the questions themselves. Because they're supposed to surprise us, and have us make a judgement call right there on the spot.

Since this seems to be part of a disability evaluation, you probably don't want to produce an invalid protocol.

Based on what you've stated, I think the psychologist is going to really appreciate having the opportunity to talk to you during the interview.

FWIW I tend to analyze and overthink also although I'm not in your league
To me, the really important thing here is to get a fair hearing and a favorable judgment. The rest truly is academic aside from how it relates to your therapy.
If you ever want to talk about the hearing process or anything else to do with SSDI or whatever type of disability you applied for there is the insurance and finances forum. There is some good info there but you've probably already researched that side of it.

Won't they administer some type of IQ test as part of the battery? I thot exceptionally high and low IQ was taken into consideration by the tester in the evaluation. I think you should just discuss the thinking dilemmas that you have described here with the tester.

Possibly but not a guarantee on IQ testing. Depends on the nature of the claim. If it's for intellectual disability, it's more likely.

You're correct. IQ testing was not originally intended to be part of the battery but the pdoc changed his mind recently.

I imagine the largest issue is this test was written by people that had a lower IQ than you. Not to mention it was geared towards people with a substantially lower IQ (perhaps that was already mentioned). The same issue is going to come up with doctors and therapists. And frankly, with everyone you meet in life.

I think those of us who have high IQ's (and especially with the higher they get), the harder it is to relate to anybody and to understand how other people think and why they do things. This in turn leads to an almost desperate loneliness on top of an already agonizingly acute awareness of the world.

You've heard the saying that ignorance is bliss? Take the converse: awareness is agony. I believe there's correlation between a person's intelligence and susceptibility to depression etc.

I don't think you're over-thinking; in fact, the rest of us are UNDER-thinking and I found your interpretation of the lying question to be fascinating.

Also to comment on your assertion that your thinking isn't normal, wouldn't it depend on how you defined normal? If you're comparing the way you're able to think with the abilities of the average person, and you consider average to be "normal", I suppose it would be abnormal. However, if you're considering normality in terms of gauging functionality (as in is your mind functioning correctly compared to itself and not to others), then you're normal. You're about to fall into the trap where one assumes that if one is different than others that there must be something wrong with them.

I'm probably not saying anything you don't already know or particularly novel, but hopefully it's helpful in some way. Good luck with getting the disability no matter what happens with the test. That's the important thing here of course.

I would just think that since there are so many protocols intended to stabilize the results, that there would need to be some kind of an IQ screen in order to identify someone whose results might be skewed by exceptional IQ. I understand the difficulty with answering those kinds of questions. I don't see it so much as 'over thinking,' but rather as seeing everything through a prism. I've never had my IQ tested, but I see everything from multiple angles simultaneously, and it drives me nuts trying to fit that prism into yes/no - true/false or even multiple choice. I can always see why each of them could be right.