[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Please move this if there is a forum where it's best seen.

I don't know how it kicked in, but I'm both fighting and trying to force body horror onto myself.

For a while I've been ashamed of how much I like physical things, knowing that intelligent, non-neurotypical people hate them and want to be a machine or a formless consciousness, so I should too. So I made myself read testaments from people who do feel this way, and they make good points:

The human body is 90% microbes, is constantly excreting and dirty, and all our physical beauty is a cover for a nasty mess of meat and organs. We really are like a bag of junk that leaks if punctured. Someone points out that the only difference between you and a gorgeous celebrity is an extremely superficial outside, and they're just as hideous and disgusting in reality. That our minds aren't meant to grasp the reality of things, so we focus on the superficial, pleasing aspects.

Part of me wants to just not care; in fact, the most natural thing for me to do is not care. From a stand-back point of view, I tend to find physiology pretty interesting, miraculous at best, no big deal at worst. But I know that's wrong and the right way to be is disgusted. I see a number of people expressing what I fear experiencing: looking at a person, however attractive, and being repulsed and disgusted by the recollection of their body functions. Or looking at normal people doing normal things and seeing grotesque, animated meat. I don't want to do that, but I'm trying to force it. I just can't though, it just doesn't matter to me, even though it should.

Someone else posted this quote, which just furthers the point that the body is inherently disgusting:

This is the bodys nature: it is a collection of over three hundred bones, jointed by one hundred and eighty joints, bound together by nine hundred sinews, plastered over with nine hundred pieces of flesh, enveloped in the moist inner skin, enclosed in the outer cuticle, with orifices here and there, constantly dribbling and trickling like a grease pot, inhabited by a community of worms, the home of disease, the basis of painful states, perpetually oozing from the nine orifices like a chronic open carbuncle, from both of whose eyes eye-filth trickles, from whose ears comes ear-filth, from whose nostrils snot, from whose mouth food and bile and phlegm and blood, from whose lower outlets excrement and urine, and from whose ninety-nine thousand pores the broth of stale sweat seeps, with bluebottles and their like buzzing round it, which when untended with tooth sticks and mouth-washing and head-anointing and bathing and underclothing and dressing would, judged by the universal repulsiveness of the body, make even a king, if he wandered from village to village with his hair in its natural wild disorder, no different from a flower-scavenger or an outcaste or what you will. So there is no distinction between a kings body and an outcastes in so far as its impure stinking nauseating repulsiveness is concerned. But by rubbing out the stains on its teeth with tooth sticks and mouthwashing and all that, by concealing its private parts under several cloths, by daubing it with various scents and salves, by pranking it with nosegays and such things, it is worked up into a state that permits of its being taken as I and mine. So men delight in women and women in men without perceiving the true nature of its characteristic foulness, now masked by this adventitious adornment. But in the ultimate sense there is no place here even the size of an atom fit to lust after. And then, when any such bits of it as head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, spittle, snot, excrement or urine have dropped off the body, beings will not touch them; they are ashamed, humiliated and disgusted. But as long as anyone of these things remains in it, though it is just as repulsive, they take it as agreeable, desirable, permanent, pleasant, self, because they are wrapped in the murk of ignorance and dyed with affection and greed for self. Taking it as they do, they resemble the old jackal who saw a flower not yet fallen from a kiísuka tree in a forest and yearned after it, thinking, This is a piece of meat, it is a piece of meat. There was a jackal chanced to see A flowering kiísuka in a wood; In haste he went to where it stood: I have found a meat-bearing tree! He chewed the blooms that fell, but could, Of course, find nothing fit to eat; He took it thus: Unlike the meat There on the tree, this is no good. A wise man will not think to treat As foul only the part that fell, But treats as foul the part as well That in the body has its seat. Fools cannot in their folly tell; They take the body to be fair, And soon get caught in Evils snare Nor can escape its painful spell. But since the wise have thus laid bare This filthy bodys nature, so, Be it alive or dead, they know There is no beauty lurking there. For this is said: This filthy body stinks outright Like ordure, like a privys site; This body men that have insight Condemn, as object of a fools delight. A tumour where nine holes abide Wrapped in a coat of clammy hide And trickling filth on every side, Polluting the air with stenches far and wide. If it perchance should come about That what is inside it came out, Surely a man would need a knout With which to put the crows and dogs to rout.

I don't want to feel this way, but I know I should. Like I said, smarter, better, more evolved people feel this way and long to be robots, "pure beings of light" or simply disembodied minds. The thought of any of those things is terrifying to me, again because I don't mind my body. I admit I could do without gross excretions, but I would also dearly miss eating, sleeping, textures, weather, and other perceptions.

However, as I think, even the process of eating, for example, becomes horrific - pulverizing substances and forcing them down a tube to a mini vat of acid to be broken down further. Doesn't it sound crude and undignified? How could I have not have realized how disgusting life is before? Even cute and beautiful things follow these same patterns, they're so universal and normal we think nothing of it. How can I find pleasure in anything physical, I'm pathetic and as disgusting as the life I inhabit. I can see where the body haters come from now. I'm just realizing the sum of the squick I experience regarding my own body, which I normally like so much and want to care for, when I should hate it, because even the pleasureable things are disgusting...

God, what do I do?

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Dear god, the more I think and research the more I realize others are right, and I should, I do want to trade this organic machine for something mechanical, or ethereal. Even my favorite pleasure of food is repulsive to me right now; I could learn to adapt, fill in the time somehow as a disembodied mind or having a needless body. But it hurts so much learning the reality of my form... a form I found fascinating just minutes ago...

And now I'm grasped with this desire to throw myself into the physical, to reject disgust (some Buddhist things I just read talk about the inherent loathesomeness of the body and of food...I'd be a hypocrite if I said I didn't believe in inherence, but I'm not sure about labelling things as inherently disgusting... just disgusting to the more refined mind). I want to exercise, beautify and cleanse myself, stuff myself with food... I can't explain why.

I know I need to stop writing, I always go crazy like this. I've never had a problem with being encased in a flesh machine until now, and the thought of not having one is terrifying though preferable. Maybe I need to die, get away from everything. I don't even know what I'm saying anymore.

[Out There]

We live in an illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality , but we do not know this. When you understand this , you will see that you are nothing. And being nothing , you are everything. That is all.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by Out There

We live in an illusion and the appearance of things. There is a reality , but we do not know this. When you understand this , you will see that you are nothing. And being nothing , you are everything. That is all.

That makes no bloody sense.

And all I find is that the more I think of myself as nothing, the more I crave to be something.

What I want is how to live with the "reality". I...I can't bear it.

I try, as I'm out today, to look at people and see the disgusting reality, but I either can't envision it clearly enough, or don't care. Speech is beginning to look repulsive though - I remember some short story where aliens described human speech as "flapping their meat at each other", which sounds gross and suddenly is.

I can't even think about my own characters anymore, since they're of human form. It's only been a few damn hours and I can hardly deal with it. I'm a ******* mess.

I found a cool paper suggesting that this whole body disgust thing in humans in general is an outgrowth of a simply mortality fear - we're disgusted mainly by the things that remind us of our animal nature and our mortal limitations. It makes sense - why else would someone long to be an ethereal being or a robot rather than a flesh-and-blood animal, provided they maintained their human thoughts and personality, but terror of death and pain? It's a little out there - another major scientific reason animals have a repulsion to things like excreta is because they usually are contaminated in some way, that's why they need to be removed (again though, think about it. Our bodies are constantly contaminated and producing hazardous waste. Every living thing is a mobile sac of pure toxicity. Shouldn't we want something cleaner?)

Is this my life now? Revulsion at what I should find attractive, disgust at the things I wish would love me, and want to like in return? What I want more than anything is a way to cope: reframing, denial that's not denial, some path to acceptance, something that doesn't require me to stay locked away in my mind from the abominations around me.

[Trippin2.0]

Do you have a T?


I think you could use one.


Most of your posts (if not all) have the general theme that you should be different to what you are. Filled with seemingly unfounded self loathing and loads of adjectives used to berate yourself.


To a layman, that could come across as attention seeking, wanting to create problems for yourself or even trolling.


I say this because I am concerned as to whether or not you are actually getting any kind of helpful feedback from your threads or from people offline...


I for one don't know what to suggest besides therapy, because my instinct is to advise you to be authentic to yourself, to embrace yourself, flaws and all, and only strive to improve that which can be improved... but your posts are full of wanting to be someone or even something else....


Best of luck with your mission, I hope that if you do somehow achieve it, that it actually makes you happy.

[Out There]

1 ) That makes no bloody sense. 2 ) You found a " cool " paper suggesting this whole body disgust thing is generally an outgrowth of a simple mortality fear. 3 ) It's a little " Out There ". That's my user name . Well , I'm not offended - I'm chipping away on my own little Magnum Opus. You're probably where you need to be right now.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by Trippin2.0

Do you have a T?

I think you could use one.

Most of your posts (if not all) have the general theme that you should be different to what you are. Filled with seemingly unfounded self loathing and loads of adjectives used to berate yourself.

...

I say this because I am concerned as to whether or not you are actually getting any kind of helpful feedback from your threads or from people offline...

.

I can promise you, I'm not consciously trolling. Most of the time, never when I actually make a thread. I wouldn't write paragraphs of running commentary on my panicky thoughts just to screw with people.

I should be different than what I am. No, I don't like myself; never have really. I've always wanted to be someone different (someTHING is a weird new development, partially born of trying to face fears).

Nothing ever seems to satisfy me for long, either because I find routes around it to keep self-loathing because anything else feels wrong, or because I can't... integrate these new modes of thought, I guess. I don't know what's wrong with me. I also don't know of any other way to be.

Oh, and no, I don't have a T. Combination of money problems, poor communication, and distrust. Though I think more and more that I could use one, if they really can cure me. Or give me something to shut up my brain (which is now running with a pejorative-filled explanation of the "reality" pills would force me to adapt to...).

Originally Posted by Out There

1 ) That makes no bloody sense. 2 ) You found a " cool " paper suggesting this whole body disgust thing is generally an outgrowth of a simple mortality fear. 3 ) It's a little " Out There ". That's my user name . Well , I'm not offended - I'm chipping away on my own little Magnum Opus. You're probably where you need to be right now.

I didn't mean to offend, I guess I was kind of frustrated.

I sure hope this isn't where I "need to be", because being disgusted with yourself ain't fun, let me tell ya.

[Thunder Bow]

I say "Welcome to The Universe", your are part of it, just like the Animals that do the same exact thing you and your body does. Just think of all this exact thing going on all over the planet, and most likely all over the Universe. Now look inside yourself and you will see the Universe and all its Power! It is YOU!

The Story Of Jumping Mouse

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

I say "Welcome to The Universe", your are part of it, just like the Animals that do the same exact thing you and your body does. Just think of all this exact thing going on all over the planet, and most likely all over the Universe. Now look inside yourself and you will see the Universe and all its Power! It is YOU!

The Story Of Jumping Mouse

You always say interesting stuff.

I find the more I think about this, the more I both...don't care, and wonder if those who are disgusted, who long for bodies made of something cleaner than flesh are, well, more refined mentally, more "human" the way logical, unemotional people are sometimes thought to be more human.

The problem is I don't see what good an indestructible, invulnerable body would be besides satisfying someone's personal squick, and avoiding disease. And aging. Sounds like it could be fun but I don't see the appeal for myself. I guess I'm trying to convince myself that's okay.

As I try to see the inherent disgustingness of living things all I end up seeing is either 1) unremarkable, normal stuff that's not a big deal, or 2) really cool biological machines. Same with external beauty - surely the uniqueness of each human form and mind outweighs the "repulsiveness" of what it covers?

Gah, I just want to go back to normal, not worry about this junk. I need a life is what I need.

[Thunder Bow]

Think of all that "Repulsiveness" as the power of the universe. It all there for you to see and have. There is much power in all that repulsiveness.

I prefer to think of the human body as a miracle instead of disgusting (like I used to.) I am much happier thinking of it in a positive way.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

Originally Posted by Thunder Bow

Think of all that "Repulsiveness" as the power of the universe. It all there for you to see and have. There is much power in all that repulsiveness.

Hm, that's weird. Not sure I can get my head around it.

I've been mostly normal today, no weird thoughts. I think making myself eat then falling asleep yesterday helped.

[Thunder Bow]

Good to take care of yourself. If you keep doing that, you will keep healing.

I heard someone describing humans as factories of waste!! I thought wow, that man was very depressed and very negative about humans, as he sees nothing other than the digestion process, as if we live to eat.

Evolution via natural selection sculpted our bodies. This is mind blowing to me. Why? Because, even though the body is full of flaws, evolution is a blind bottom-up process, which has produced the most complex known organ in the universe, namely, the brain, which makes you think all these thoughts, and reflect on them. The harmony of the different organs and the healing of injuries and how the immune system works ... etc are something to reflect on.

Other than that, I see the body as a vehicle. It's not a purpose, but a means as we humans have transcended our physical realities by our big and complex brains (in contrast to animals which try just to survive the moment and pass their genes). It helps us to do things larger than us. We are larger than our bodies and its collective parts. The collection of parts is more than the sum of the individual parts. That's why outer beauty loses its value in the absence of inner beauty, because we are no longer after outer beauty as the sole determinant of fitness and power.

[Out There]

Indeed , C.S Lewis puts it very well - " You do not HAVE a soul , you ARE a soul , you HAVE a body "

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

Hm, that's weird. Not sure I can get my head around it.

I've been mostly normal today, no weird thoughts. I think making myself eat then falling asleep yesterday helped.

Think of childbirth as an example - it's messy, maybe gross in some people's eyes, but if you are ever present at a birth it is the most amazing, powerful thing ever.

I gained a new respect for my body after childbirth.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

I wanted to dredge this up for a moment, mainly after watching some clips from some documentary on the living body. Yes, our insides are gross. Like, really effing disgusting, everything it does. I found it easy to watch with a certain detachment and even curiosity ("so that's what it looks like..."), trying to see the beauty there. It's...difficult, to say the least. Slimy, pulsing organ flesh just isn't attractive; it's probably for the better we have a much more simplistic and elegant outer shell. I think I finally understand why transhumanists want to replace the body with metal and plastic or forgo it altogether. I kinda agree; just keep my mind intact.

I just can't manage to be too bothered by knowing everyone has all that gross stuff inside, mostly because it's hard to hold that in mind when looking at someone. Hasn't stopped me from looking at pretty people and trying to imagine their muscles, organs, etc, and not really succeeding, but still...

[Thunder Bow]

Yep, look at the pretty people, presidential candidates, famous athletes, and beauty queens, it is all the same. At least you are seeing them as human. I still like all that gross stuff in nature though.