[AAAAA]

I was sitting in my car today on my break and I saw two German Shepards running around. One stayed a good distance away, about half a football field, while the other ventured into the area where we take our breaks. It ran right up to where the picnic table was and took a dump.

First I was annoyed that someone was letting two huge dogs run around, then I was annoyed because the thing took a crap and no owner in sight to clean up after it. I was actually thinking about calling the police when low and behold the "owner" of the dogs walks out from the car wash in our parking lot and it was one of the K9 officers in our town.

When I went back in, I mentioned to my manager what had happened. She politely called the police station and requested that the officer return and clean up after his dog.

About 15 minutes later she approached me and said "well apparently you lied to me, because the cop cannot find the mess his dog made and I look like the a$$hole for complaining." This just made me angry, I'm a lot of things, but a liar is not one of them, and what a stupid thing to lie about anyway!

So off I go outside to show my manager and the police officer where the dog had made his mess. And it was right where I said it would be. I pointed at the pile and walked away to return to work. The police officer then turned to my manager and just started SCREAMING at her. He insisted that the owner of the property (it's a small plaza) gave the police officer permission to let his dogs do their business there (our store is the one responsible for outside clean up as our customers are the ones that use the outside facilities) and as long as he has the property owner's permission he can let the dogs do whatever he wants. And that he wasn't the problem here.

I was half way back to the building, but this guy wasn't stopping. He was screaming at her in the middle of a public parking lot in full view of customers. I couldn't just leave her there. I mean I was irritated by her earlier comment, but she's only 28 years old and five feet tall. This man had diarrhea of the mouth. He was right in her face screaming at her. So I turned started walking back toward her and said "I'm not here to argue, I have no knowledge of your agreement with the property owner, but unless I'm mistaken the villiage has ordinaces governing 1) an animal deficating on property used by the public and 2) animals not on a leash. At least one of these dogs was out of your sight for no fewer than five minutes. You had no idea that your dog actually went to the bathroom, let alone where or that there was actually a person sitting right here to see the whole thing. The fact that I had to come out and show YOU where a dog in YOUR control went to the bathroom because you couldn't find it yourself tells ME that at the very least you are violating K9 handler proceedures." I took my manager's arm and we went back into work.

When our General Manager became aware of the issue, she insisted my manager call the Sheriff's Department to complain. They refused to do anything about it.

But I'm sitting here now with a pit in my stomach the size of Texas. If anyone else had addressed me in this manner I would have called the police. The dog annoyance is gone, his attitude has me greatly disturbed. I was raised by a police officer. I saw the way my father interacted with the public and those people that worked for him. There is no way he would have tolerated that behavior.

I wanted to stop at the police station on the way home from work to complain directly to his supervisor. At the very least he owes us both an apology. I know that I could contact the committee that governs the villiage to complain. But do I want to start a war with the police force? I know the first thing they would do is ticket us for too many vehicles. You are only permitted three registered vehicles on your property at a time, we have five, we have six drivers in this house.

When did it become acceptable for a police officer to verbally assault anyone? In all honesty I have no idea what the conversation was before I came outside, but she had not even uttered a word when he turned on her and started screaming.

So what would you do? Would you file the complaints knowing that nothing will be done and bring grief on yourself in the process?

I would write a letter to the sheriff cc it to his/her boss.

Explain everything that went on and then sit back and wait for the dogs mess to hit the so called fan.

[AAAAA]

My husband suggested an unsigned letter to the commission and editor of our local paper. However, if I'm going to complain, I'm going to sign the stupid thing. And it would be stupid not to because there were two people involved in this situation. This is a small town, I can see the police department from my window so they wouldn't even have to go out of their way to harrass us.

When my manager and I went back in, I let her know that when she called me a liar it offended me. She admitted that she did it because she wanted me to do exactly what I did, storm out and prove the guy wrong. She was afraid that I would not confront this man directly if I wasn't angry.

[Perna]

Since the problem is over, I would "forget" it. All that can come of complaining further (you already have and got the problem taken care of) would be further dumping :-) If you really want to complain, I would have your business owner complain to the plaza owner and ask them to recind any such agreement with the police department as they are irresponsible in cleaning up the messes their dogs make and it is hurting your business. Then I'd leave it for this time. I think the guy probably got chewed out and couldn't find the **** (kind of like your boss calling you a liar) and was angry and then, when you showed him where the **** was and your sophisticated argument, he snapped. I assume it's a bad day at the office when you get yelled at because your dog takes a dump and you don't know about it and your boss tells you to go clean it up only you can't find it.

My cleaner is next to my vets and there's an island/row of bushes between the parking and the strip mall. The vet clients dogs take dumps there before they go into the vets and the rest of us, going to the other stores, have to pay attention to where we step. The cleaners complained :-) and the vets put a special bag dispenser and trash can, etc. and encourage their clients to clean up after their pets, etc. It doesn't always happen but I can sort of understand the larger picture and, though it is unpleasant, for me as a cat owner and cleaner user to have to pay attention to where I step, it's not that big in my overall scheme of things.

I live in a townhouse and on both side of me are multiple dogs owners and they wander into my yard and take a dump occasionally but it doesn't happen that often and I prefer to battle about (and get help for) other, bigger things so I clean up the dumps.

[bebop]

I am sorry this happened to you both....first of all is it a police dept or sherriff's dept? if I were a chief or the sherriff and I had an officer behave that way I would at least write him up or put him on suspension. I say take it to his boss. You may never know what actions if any they take on this but public officers are not suppose to behave that way. if you see nothing is being done take it to the mayor. neither dept would want bad publicity about it

[lynn P.]

I'm sorry this happened to you and your boss. I agree with Bebop - although this started over his dog pooping, it's has escalated with this officer being very unprofessional and verbally abusing/intimidating a civilian. His boss should know about this and his dog shouldn't be running free.

[AAAAA]

The police officer actually involved works for our Village police department. The GM and manager called the Sheriff's Department to report a verbal assault. I could be wrong, but I believe the proper proceedure would have been to complain to the Chief of Police (I have since learned is on medical leave) or the committee that governs the Village.

We do not have a single person like a Mayor or Township Supervisor in charge, we have a committee of six equal individuals in charge of the Board.

My issue has moved beyond the animal control issue. His behavior was unexcuseable.

My husband has decided to throw some of my own "logic" at me. He said you can either be right or you can be happy. You're definately right, but is the cost in making him appear to apologize worth it?

[AkAngel]

First, I am sorry that you had such a negative experience. Second, I strongly agree with your husband.

[notz]

What a nasty incident. You did an incredible job!

My suggestions which may or may not have been suggested:

• File a citizen complaint with the police department. Almost all police departments have Internal Affairs or Office of Professional Standards. Some are better than others.
• Request a copy of the SOP's (Standard Operating Procedures) on Officer Courtesy and K-9 Units. The Freedom of Information Act requires them to give this to you at nominal charge
• Ask them how long it will take to adjudicate your complaint. (hmmmm....she's serious)
• Don't threaten anyone and don't expect an apology. Government is very afraid to admit culpability these days. But if you get one, that would be awesome!
• Write a calm, reasoned letter about the importance of courteous behavior by law enforcement in the community. Explain how your encounter rings the bell of importance regarding relationships between the citizenry, the community and the police department.
• Send this letter to the Editor of the local paper. CC the police chief or the acting chief (I just read above), mayor, city council or other local representatives.
• Call the council member who represents you and ask for their help to resolve this matter (you are all about what's right for the community and know that he/she is too, right?)
• Also, ask if officers receive ongoing training in public contact and officer courtesy.

At the very least, if K-9 Standard Operating Procedures doesn't specifically cover feces removal on private or public property, with or without permission...it darn well ought to.

If they ticket you about the cars, see an attorney about "harassment". Remember you are a tax paying citizen and have every right not to be verbally assaulted. It's doing the community a service. I hope they do the right thing and get this into the officer's personnel file. Their may be a reason he handles dogs...less exposure to people...food for thought.

Good luck. Interested to know how this plays out.

[perpetuallysad]

I have a problem with my neighbor's children and he's a cop. No one cares a bit about what he does. Hell, they whole family went out of town for a week and literally left a pit bull and a german shepard alone in the back yard with a cattle feed type thing to feed them and a cop comes by the house every day and fills a bucket of water through the fence. I mean seriously, if I did that when I got home my dogs would be gone and I would be in trouble. Cops (in my experience) have an advantage and live by a completely arbitrary double standard.

[AAAAA]

My comment about not following K9 handler proceedures actually has nothing to do with the feces. My father was also a K9 officer. I do not recall the specific wording (and it was another state) but simply put a K9 officer cannot allow his animal to roam about on public property. This officer violated proceedure by letting the animal run loose and compounded the error by not even having the animal within his eyesight.

When the dog did his business, the cop was actually in the service section of the car wash, not even outside with them although the door was open. There is a storage building and huge garbage corral (large enough to hold 6 industrial sized garbage hoppers that is enclosed with 10 foot fencing) between where the one dog was and the police officer himself.

In the Plaza there is a grocery store, gas station, fresh meat/veggie store, and fast food joint. So this area is frequented by children (school, teen center and children's museum is adjacent). My issue with the animals running loose was/is that no matter how well an animal is trained, it is still an animal and therefore unpredictable.

The more I think about the situation, the more I am disturbed. My only one on one contact with a professional police dog was my father's. His animal did not frolic about in public. In fact, now that I think about it, the only time she "played" was in the house. Outside the house at any given time she was at his heel. Her every action (including going to the bathroom) was done on command. Neither animal nor human gained her attention without his approval.

I'm no expert, but I think the dog that stayed away was either older or better trained than the other. It was able to view its master the entire time. It remained inline with the open door the entire time it was out (could not see whether it was male or female from where I was). It did frolic and play with the male dog within that zone. It responded immediately to commands when the cop came out whereas the male needed to be told several times to come.

[AAAAA]

Thank you for saying I did a good job handling the situation. I disagree. I wish I would have immediately said "excuse me, but you cannot scream at us". I'm so angry at myself. I would not have tolerated that behavior from anyone, and I wish I would have told him that. I'm usually articulate, I wish I would have been able to articulate a response that would have let him know that he was out of line without escalating the situation.

[notz]

But you did articulate well, just maybe not on the exact time schedule you may have wished for.

Does the Village have a leash law? If so, are K9 officers exempt? Has anyone confirmed what the officer said about an agreement?

What I hear from some is the fear of repercussions for standing up to public servants. How troublesome. What I would expect is that the officer's supervisor would be very embarrassed about the officer's conduct. Where I grew up officers were part of the solution and not the problem. Now it seems we have to look over our shoulder to make sure those who work for us do not have some revenge in mind.

Does the Village Board have public meetings? If so, I would check to see if you have to state your intention to appear so you are on the agenda. Then explain what happened and express your disappointment for the purpose of ensuring this unprofessional conduct does not happen to others.

[lynn P.]

Some police officers expect special treatment. I think this officer was pissed because he was asked to pick up his dogs poop. He tried to pretend he didn't see it but you both proved him wrong, so he let his temper fly. I agree most police officers are supposed to calm situations down and keep peace and not behave like he did. What would he do, if he was really in a tense situation - be trigger happy I suspect. Is this the kind of officer, people want to work for their city?

[AAAAA]

The Village does have a leash law, I have not seen any execptions of the leash law. As for the agreement between the owner of the property, I am sure that matter was discussed between the GM of our store and the property owner today after I left. Although as far as I am concerned, the dog crapping next to our picnic table seems insignificant now.

My plan at this stage is to contact the Chief of Police and make him aware of the situation and hopefully he'll take care of it in house. I have a great deal of respect for law enforcement, and perhaps that is why this offended me to my very core. As a tax paying citizen of this Village, I am shocked at the blatant disregard for the liability of allowing an animal like that run free.

My husband and I discussed this at great length today. Perhaps I'm naive, but I have no fear of the police department. I am a law abiding citizen. This particular police officer is somewhat famous/infamous for his traffic stops and searches. I have nothing to hide, search away.

My husband points out that he carries some of his Rx medication in his lunch box in a small box. This includes a syringe for his insulin. Should he be stopped and searched, he could be arrested for paraphernalia. The charges would eventually be dismissed of course, he has a valid Rx for everything, but what would it cost in stress and inconvience? What would happen if it was one of the kids? Our youngest plans on entering the military next spring and becoming a MP, how would this affect his future in terms of the arrest or even his idealogy?

My husband told me that he agrees with me entirely and will support whatever decision I make, but he requested that I think seriously about how to proceed. What should happen and what actually happens are often two completely different things.

We also discussed the difference in our experiences with law enforcement in general. I'm not an idiot, I KNOW that there are bad apples out there in law enforcement. But until today they were always "out there". Suddenly in my mid 40s I'm faced with a decision I don't like. Do I say it's over and done with and quietly accept something that I think is fundamentally wrong so that I avoid annoyance? I still believe in the system, that Justice would eventually prevail. Or do I stand up for what I believe is right by making complaints the the Chief and the Board and subject not only myself but my family to all the back lash that will most likely happen? What do I say to my children in either case?

In my heart of hearts, I truly hope that my manager pursues this (I was not treated with the same animosity as she) and the choice will no longer be mine. If questioned I will absolutely tell the truth.

[AkAngel]

Good luck with whatever you decide. My experience with police has been beyond horrible; yours is clearly different. I have no wish for you to ever have my experiences and while there is no guarantee that following up on this and doing the 'right thing' will result in you becoming a victim of the cop but it could; please be careful.

For me, it's a gamble. That might be cause I play poker for a living but everything comes down to odds. If I have one chance in twenty of winning this pot if I call a $5 bet, then there needs to be $95 in the pot to make this a break even proposition. If there is any more in the pot then I should absolutely call the bet; if there is less than $95 in the pot then I should absolutely not call the bet. Likewise, if there is only one chance in twenty of the cop acting inappropriate then you have to decide if he can cause you over "$95" worth of trouble if he decides to go that route. What is it worth to you to if he pulls your youngest over, invents a probable cause and "finds" a little baggie of marijuana in his car? Your husband is held and his insulin is withheld until they dot every 'i' and cross every 't' as far as checking with the pharmacy, then the doctor, then sending it to the lab to verify that it really is insulin before they return it, etc.

Just be careful okay.

P.S. Please check out the thread in current events re: the 57-year old teacher who called the police for help.

[Rhiannonsmoon]

PS is right, cops are a law unto themselves I was married to one for nearly 30 years.

But if people don't complain they continue to get away with things. In todays climate officials are becoming more and more accountable. They don't want bad publicity because it augurs bad for them at election time.

Whether they like it or not police are just human beings with a uniform on.

They are upholders of the law they are not the law so the sooner they learn that the sooner they will behave appropriately to the public...

Can you imagine that guys poor wife or gf? what a terribly abusive relationship they must be in...

Rhiannon

[radio_flyer]

Years ago, I'd say back in the 70's and 80's police officers were friendly and helpful. These days there are way too many robo cops. You look at them wrong and they will get ya. I read somewhere where a cop "tazered" a 80 or 90 year old woman in bed on oxygen because if I recall right the lady wanted to die. A 72 year old great grandma was tazered over a speeding ticket. Lot more stories where innocent folks were beaten up by policemen which was caught on tape.... Cops are scary these days....

He did eventually clean up the dog's droppings.. I think I'd just let things go.. Not that one should fear the cops... But like I said there are way too many "robo cops" these days... Yes he was wrong... sometimes you just have to "walk away"...imho

But then he did yell at you.. Maybe a complaint should be filed. Maybe he has "issues" and needs a break from the job....I dunno... tough call...

[AkAngel]

Originally Posted by Rhiannonsmoon

Can you imagine that guys poor wife or gf? what a terribly abusive relationship they must be in...

Rhiannon

Not necessarily Rhiannon. You're familiar I'm sure with the Stanford Prison Experiment. Remember the young woman's (who ended up marrying Zimbardo) first encounter with the subject known as John Wayne? She met him before his shift began and was 'having the most pleasant conversation with a very nice, intelligent man'. After he left she asked the other researchers if they would point out 'John Wayne', the subject already infamous for his meanness and cruelty. The two men were, of course, the same.

I cringe every time I hear someone say that they know a cop and "he's not like that". I just want to tell them that you have no idea what he is like away from you. Anyway, just suggesting that he might be a saint at home.

[AAAAA]

He never did clean up the dog droppings! Immediately after I showed him the pile he started screaming at my manager. As we were walking away he pulled out his cell and called the property owner, which is why I am sure the GM and the owner had a conversation about it. I am off today, but I'm sure there will be more information tomorrow.

AK hit on the head with the baggie of weed. My youngest son looks like the stereotypical stoner. He has hair almost down to his butt and has a trademark leather jacket. He has been approached many times by strangers and asked for drugs. He is very anti drug, this includes alcohol and cigarettes. He grew his hair because he has an identical twin and was tired of being confused. They have very curly hair, my older twin keeps his hair extremely short. He cannot stand to have it touch his ears or collar. The leather jacket was my father's.

[KathyM]

Doncha just LOVE the in-your-face arrogance? How DARE you yell at a police officer. It sounds like he expected you to grovel at his feet, take out your finest hankie and clean up his dog's poop for him. He expected wrong, lol. I'd be tempted to clean up the poop, place it in a bag, then hang it on his rearview mirror on a hot day.

I'm sorry your confrontation with the cop became so ugly, but I'm thankful he didn't take it a step further and taser you. He could have easily justified his actions, and it would be your word against his. This cop sounds like a loose cannon, so I'd be careful in going after him. He could target you or your family, and it would be easy for him to plant something in your son's car.

I know old cops, middle-aged cops, and young cops. To me, they are all the same. I don't know any who went into the business to truly "serve and protect." They chose the career to be in a position of power and control over people and take out whatever frustrations they have on "bad guys."

One old cop I know used to judge his good day vs. bad day by how many "n*****s" heads he bashed in that day. His wife didn't mind because he took out his anger and frustration on the street instead of taking it out on her.

One young cop I know recently joined the police force. He wrote in his Facebook page: "I have a GREAT job - I get to push people around, beat them up whenever I want, and even shoot them...how cool is that!?!

AAAAA - Do what you need to do, but please be careful.

[lonegael]

AAAA, here is a good example of where you are RIGHT, very much so, but the system is wrong. You have to weigh the chances that he will get no more than a verbal slap on the wrist, and will be free who hassle you, or risk that and hope that he straightens up. Could he have been hung over? That might explain the explosiveness, but is no excuse for the way that he treated you, and your manager.

Try to keep a signed letter from your husband's doctor about his medications, complete with adress and phonenumber. If they give trouble, you can make a call to the doctor and possibly have the cops or the lawyer bring more insulin IMMEDIATELY to the jail. If you are worried bout retaliation, get in tough with some legal advice NOW

You got to live with your own choices, dear. I have great admiration for your integrity. But, if you decide to take on the jerk, make sure you are prepared. Whatever you decide, I'm routing for you, and I think you handled it fine! He, on the other hand, did not.

Great he wasn't mounted police, huh? HUGGGGGSSS.

[lynn P.]

If the police officers boss in nice - this might turn out in your favor but if his boss is arrogant too, this could backfire like the others mentioned. This is a tough decision. I think it's better to a least make this incident known and on record, in case he decides to blow up on anyone else.

[AAAAA]

My husband just got home from work, his boss is the head of the Rescue Squad. Boss said "that's just Craig (police officer)". He suspects that there may be a prior history with my manager or her husband and Craig. His opinion is that until the Chief returns from medical leave nothing will be done. Even then "Craig's personality defects are well known".

I have a while to think about it, the Chief will be off for a while having surgery on his shoulder. I keep going back and forth. My manager did not say a word to him before he got in her face and started screaming. If she had said something that set him off I would have understood his reaction. I would not have approved because I still contend that by definition a peace officer's job is to maintain the peace, not disturb it. But I would have put it in the catagory of he's human with human emotions.