First of all, would you believe it was a therapist who said this to me? One would think that therapists are the first to realize that life is not either/or, all/nothing. I was a teenager at the time. I think she was trying to tell me I was still a child, with no legal rights, stuck under my parents' authority whether I liked it or not, and that was that.

My husband and I were just talking about this subject. In the US and in the vast majority of the developed world, there is no transitional period between childhood and adulthood. Presumably that's what adolescence is supposed to be, but in practice, a person is subject to his/her parents until his/her 18th or 21st birthday, depending on the individual nation, and then boom, that person instantly becomes a fully fledged adult.

Unless, according to some parents, that person "still lives under my roof." My father certainly would have agreed with that. He was one who took the complete attitude of, "As long as you're under my roof, I don't care if you're 93, you're going to do what I tell you." Even my mother, although she doesn't state it so bluntly, expects it to be that way. The last time I returned to the nest, in my late 30's, I found myself unable to go to church. She doesn't go, I can't drive, and she lives in a rural setting with no public transit. She wouldn't allow someone else from the church to come and pick me up, because she was concerned that having someone else provide my transportation would make the neighbors think she was "needy." In effect, I couldn't go anywhere she didn't take me, and when it bothered me, she didn't care because "it's my house."

Nowadays she brags to the rest of the family how I was so dependent on her that she had to take me everywhere I went. It was only that way because she made it so, but that doesn't matter. She'll say anything that makes herself look good, and others look bad. Believe me, I'll never make the mistake of moving back in with her, ever again.

(As a quick aside, I for one don't like to hear it called "leaving home" when you move out of your parents' house, or "going back home" when you move back in. Anywhere you live is your "home." I live "at home," but I don't live with my parents.)

On the flip side of the coin, I know there are also plenty of young adults who still live with their parents and expect to have it both ways. "I'm not going to pay rent or help with the bills, but if they try to tell me I can't have my girlfriend spend the night in my bed, I'll be quick to remind them that I'm over 18 and will do as I please."

I really am not sure where I was going with this. Could other people take it from here, and whatever direction it goes, it goes?

[LittleForgetMeNot]

I dislike it when people say that. A lot of the therapists/staff at the hospital program I'm at (I go daily like school) say this to me a lot when I talk of the responsibilities I have. I'll explain to them that I don't feel like I do enough at home to be considered a major role in my brother's or Dad's life. They act like putting my brother on the bus and making sure he gets to school is the most a teenager can do for their parents. I would understand if I did the laundry, the dishes, made dinner and cleaned the house, but I don't. I just make his lunch and put him on the bus. If he misses it we take the city buses instead. Sure he's special needs and it can be difficult and frustrating.. but it's just not that big of a deal. But they keep reminding me "That's a lot to do for someone your age". I don't think so at all. It's one job..

One therapist told me that I am a child, I shouldn't worry about my Dad because those are not appropriate worries for someone my age and that I should accept my mother back into my life because she's my mom, I'm her daughter, and have no right to protect myself from her as I'm only 15 (she didn't say that but she seemed to imply it). Child's Services told me at 15 I have every right to say yes or no to visiting or talking to my mother, but EVERYONE else is saying I'm much too young to make such a decision..

I know this is not quite what you were talking about here, but I just wanted to add in my experiences. I'm always too young for everything.. it's frustrating.

[Travelinglady]

Legally, I suppose there's truth to that statement. For example, we have two sons. One is 18 and the other is 19. I consider them "adults." One is a sophomore at a university, and the other one is a high school senior. They get their own mail, and their social-security checks are sent to them by the government. They both have their own bank accounts and can do whatever they want to do, legally.

Maybe because my parents were so restrictive, I lean the other way, probably too much. If they were to move back into my house, then I think I would expect them to help out and to pay some on the room and board, but I don't think I should boss them around otherwise. However, I would tell them I wouldn't feel comfortable if they had someone sleeping with them in their room (sexual relationship.) That's my values, and they have those ones, too, as far as I know. Frankly, they do know that I expect them to not have to move back in.......(But we never know with the economy being the way it it.) But I do allow them to come and go pretty much as they please. I only ask that they keep in touch with us.

I was laughing the other day about something I saw about people getting old and going into their "second childhood." It said "the bad thing about getting into your second childhood is you can't blame your parents for how you are!" And people can get so demented in their old age that they can no longer be responsible, so their children might get a power-of-attorney and control all aspects of their parents' lives, even though their parents are officially adults.

Interesting viewpoints.

I think adolescence NEEDS to be that transitional period between childhood and adulthood. I grew up in an environment of, "You are 100% a child until the very day you turn 18. Even after that, if you haven't moved out, I'm still going to tell you what to do." IMO this is not conducive to creating responsible, mature adults capable of running society. I believe narcissistic parenting comes into play here. In our family it was less about teaching us right from wrong, making productive citizens out of us, than it was about showing us who was boss.

As an example, when my brother was 12 years old, he noticed some matting in our dog's fur, and trimmed it out. He did no aesthetic harm to the dog at all. In fact he did a very good job. IMO any healthy, normal parent would have praised him for doing what needed to be done, without waiting to be told. Instead, my father reamed him out for making a decision by himself, and not asking first. It took me YEARS to overcome the tendency to just sit around and wait to be told what to do, before doing anything at all.

I see nothing wrong with what LFMN describes, the older or more able sibling helping to care for younger or less able ones. (*Helping* to. As long as the entire burden isn't on their shoulders. It ultimately rests with the parents.) That's how responsibility is learned--by doling it out, little by little. In my case, as the oldest of four, I couldn't win. I was expected to watch out for the younger ones, but they didn't have to listen to me. I was punished for "allowing" my sister to climb on top of the bathroom sink to brush her teeth. (She could have fallen and gotten hurt!) But I was also punished for trying to make that same sister sit down on a moving school bus. (She doesn't have to do what you say.) Also, by the time I was 14, my mother had begun working outside the home, and it was my task to have supper on the table. On the nights when I cooked, my brothers weren't obligated to eat, but if my mother had the night off and she cooked, they had to eat what was on their plates. This told me indisputably that although I had the same responsibility, I was not entitled to the same respect. Why? Because I was not an adult.

It also is true that an underage person (I refuse to call someone as mature and responsible as LFMN a "child") shouldn't have to worry about certain things. In an ideal situation, the parents take care of the child, not the other way around. But this is the real world, which is not an ideal place.

[MandiePoo]

if thats true, how does that account for DID'ers?

I have several insiders who are kids. And I am 28. Therefore I am both a child, and an adult.

*giggle* Cute, MandiePoo.

My husband and I further chatted about this topic, and we have concluded:

1. People who tell teenagers, "These are the best years of your life," are full of it. We both agree that our 40's, not our teens, have been our best years so far.

2. Similar thinking on that Facebook "Like" phrase I see occasionally. "Remember when we were kids and we couldn't wait to grow up? What the hell were we thinking?" My husband and I both know exactly what we were thinking. I, for one, wouldn't be a kid again if somebody gave me a million dollars. My parents would only take it away from me anyway. :P

[(JD)]

One would think that therapists are the first to realize that life is not either/or, all/nothing

I think good therapists realize this, poor therapists do not?

[(JD)]

I, for one, wouldn't be a kid again if somebody gave me a million dollars. My parents would only take it away from me anyway. :P

Maybe the idea is that "normal" sense of carefree and safe living? Errr....of course, for most here, that is not their truth at all.

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by (JD)

Maybe the idea is that "normal" sense of carefree and safe living? Errr....of course, for most here, that is not their truth at all.

Yes, I believe that is it EXACTLY! some had a mostly good childhood-- the ones that say how it is/was the best time of ones life...... and yea, for most of us here that was sooooo not the case.

[Perna]

I don't have any trouble with the actual statement; a society has to decide when someone is legally responsible for themselves and take it from there based on majorities so they are worrying about a minority of people who might have a problem rather than the other way around, starting with the majority (unable or unwilling to be responsible for themselves) and having to do a case-by-case with so many.

I also agree that a parent's house is their house and even if one pays room and board, that does not give one any "rights" other than room and board. The "owners" don't have to like your friends or allow them in their house; it's still a private house, even if you pay the entire mortgage; if your name isn't on the mortgage and your parents aren't particularly caring/loving, I don't know what you are doing living in that particular place, paying them room and board.

Parents were married and had/have lives of their own before we were born and, eventually, want us out and on our own. If we come back, it's as a child, unable to care for ourselves better (or we would). Why would they want to make that easy so we'll stay, all comfy? Why would they want to, again, interrupt their own comfort for us? They're individuals too, with their own lives that don't center around us and our lives.

[Travelinglady]

Despite all that about it being our house as parents, I do have to say that, AS A LOVING AND CARING PARENT, I couldn't live with myself if I knew my child had done the best he or she could, and just couldn't survive in the "outside world." I couldn't see my child starving, for instance, and not help!

But I'm sure, Payne, that you wouldn't later hold it over your child's head that you helped, and now your child owes you. Which I brought up in another thread.

[lonegael]

LBF, I recognize a little bit about what you mention in my parents as well. There is a generational attitude in "If you don't earn, you have nothing to say" attitude that is also present in the house attitude. My mother has the attitude that she has "authority" that must always be respected. I am ALWAYS the child, irregardless of whether I am in her house or my own (see, in her mind, it is my HUSBAND's house).
When she called be to task for reading out my husband for making a unilateral decision which affected the whole family, on the basis that it was him who earned, my response was: "If he had allowed us to remain in the States, I would have out-earned him. It was not my decision to move, and my staying at home here has made it possible for him to earn what he does. I do not see it as my job to sit back and "Yes Dear" him for the rest of my life because his decision put my earning ability back a few years for his ego keeps me at home with a handikaped child. Nor does he expect me to. I am an adult in this family and I have a say."

She was shocked speechless. She had a few small sarcastic things to say after that, but she kept her mouth shut even about her own entitlement to run the show. Since then she has been passive aggressive, but I am starting to believe that she was raised that one kissed butt to one's husband and parents and then took out the bossing rights on one's children. when I changed the rules, that really threw her. I was basically declaring myself to be an adult to her, and she has a rough time with that.

[Rhiannonsmoon]

I just call it "That akward stage between life and death" ...can't remember where I heard that but I heard it so many years ago it could have been Bill Crosby...?