Does grammar matter to you?

I agree with that 100%. It drives me crazy. I'm used to it, because my 2nd language is German, and Germanvolk seem to like correcting people, but it doesn't aggravate me any less, I just try to get on with it.

Thing is, my English is pretty damn good, thanks to years of obsessing. I am somewhat obsessed with grammar, and I do enjoy a good fancy word, and some fancy English nerd-speak, especially as it comes up a lot due to learning German, but I don't go around being an arse about it! ...like so many are. For starters, sometimes people don't care and just wanna relax a tad. Like right now, I'm not so fussed about my grammar, whereas other times I might go all-out and try to make it perfect. The very nature of this thread does trigger my OCD, so I am kind-of battling the desire to satisfy the "perfectionism" part of it. Some people are dyslexic. Some people are bad typers and make typos all the time. Some people get confused between different languages. Some people might be too tired and accidentally slip into bad grammar habits.

Anywho, I think a lot of people should just just bother themselves with their own English or whatever first language; why not? Especially if you're going to be using it a lot, ... or rather, the written language; it just makes it more readable, for those--well--reading it. But, I don't think people should get all in their faces about it, giving it "Oh, you missed the comma there, ... NOOB." because, seriously, ... it seems really rude and disrespectful, to me. We all make mistakes, sometimes we don't care, and sometimes we do, but we certainly don't need everyone to be a teacher, breathing down our necks all the time.

I would certainly not start a conversation with, say, a French native, then start correcting their English, ... if I can understand them, then that's fair enough - it's not up to me to be their teacher; I'm not obliged in any way to correct them. If someone asks me, then sure! Gladly! Just as I'm happy to have someone help me, should I ask for advice, which I certainly do, because German really confuses me, sometimes.

OK, so maybe I am a little annoyed with "grammar Nazis" going around re-wording people's sentences, when said people are trying to have a conversation with them.

The worst thing, personally, was one of my exes, ... she was a PEACH in a half; I showed her a short story I was working on, and when she finally gave me it back? She left bloody red ink all over it, as if she were a damn teacher, and you should know that her English was atrocious. She actually had the audacity to "correct" my little story. To this day, I still cannot forget that she insisted I spelled "ferocious" incorrectly. Argh. xD She sure "learned" me.

For me, clarity is the most important. Poor grammar is okay if I understand what you're saying. Learning disabilities, ESL, etc. are forgiven.

Things that I'm less patient about:
* Not using paragraphs. If you're writing more than 4-5 sentences in electronic communication, you should probably start a new paragraph. My brain refuses to process large blocks of text
* Unstructured, cluttered writing
* Verbosity without purpose
* Chat-speak

Clear communication is a sign of courtesy. You can try, to the best of your ability, to show your reader that you have made an effort to present yourself clearly.

And yet, contrary to some of what I said above, I do agree with you. I totally understand the block of text thing. When I see a HUGE block of paragraphless text, especially with no punctuations, then I just don't bother reading it; it's an eye-sore. Chat-speak is horrendous, ... assuming you mean "guf lyk dis"; I think that's only ever worthwhile on a phone, since it can save cash.

I'm not sure I agree with the verbosity thing - if someone wants to express themselves in a particularly elaborate manner, then I'm OK with that. :P I dunno, ... I guess it could get annoying, using a series of paragraphs to express that they are simply "cold", for example.

Now I am going to have to go back to that "annoying people" thread and see if your relative made your list :P I love that story BTW I used to watch Keeping Up Appearances and loved Hyacinth despite her faults. A real life Hyacinth would be annoying
I think I should say that I'm pretty much basing my contributions to this thread in the context of communicating with PC members but basing my views on general internet experiences. That's probably confusing because most PC members are very tolerant of bad spelling and grammar. I've posted in forums and groups where there are grammar nazis. To me they are annoying and disruptive because they shift the focus from the original subject to grammar and spelling. To me that is a digression and a complete waste of time... my time. I hate it when I have to wade through all that to get back to the real subject
Laziness in typing is annoying but only a bit. When someone types u for you etc there is a little mental "that is annoying" sign that flashes briefly in my mind and is quickly discarded.
It's tempting to relate the evolution of the views my cousin, myself and others of our generation hold towards where we came from, but that would be a digression and therefor annoying I will say that our egos have been stroked enough that it's become meaningless and we've matured and grown spiritually enough to have no shame or embarrassment from our cultural background and/or backwards and uneducated relatives... except to feel a bit ashamed at ever having felt such feelings at all.

I totally agree! Large blocks of text just makes my head hurt, although I will make an attempt to read it. If I get about half way down, however, and I find myself reading the same line twice, that's it. I give up.

Pet peeve #394.... smiley faces (or frowns or any goofy icon) sprinkled liberally in a professional email. And while we're on the subject, unnecessary usage of CAPS, colors, especially yeallo,. which is not only impossible to see, but an instant migraine producer for me; creative fonts that are just ducky in a personal email but have no particular necessityin a business forum. Oh, and teeeny tiny type makes me want to go all windmill on a person!!!

On that note...may I add don't be a hater hehe

This is weird, but I noticed that in people in my age group (50's) it seems the men are the ones who most often substitute 'u' for 'you', as well as utilize more of the dreaded acronyms...they also prefer 'lmao' to 'lol' in chat rooms. Among the younger generation, however, this 'gender qualification' doesn't seem to be present.

Curious.

I don't think using language properly is about pretentiousness. It's about having enough respect for the communication between me and someone else so we can understand each other clearly.

Made me laugh....

My pet peeve is when someone says they work in healthcare and they give advice about 'HIPPA'. I want to correct them and ask exactly what they do in healthcare that they don't know it is 'HIPAA'.

Personally, I don't correct other people's mistakes. To me it's rude and embarassing for the other person. To me, forums like this are kind of organic in the way people post. Errors and mistakes are likely to happen when people are typing in this kind of setting. However, it bugs the snot out of me to see typos, grammar mistakes and mispellings in business documents. I have to type things that are sent to the court. You can be sure I run spelling/grammar check AND have someone proofread it for me before it goes to the court.

I'd like to add a different perspective about caps/no caps and the like. It could be that is the way that person communicates. You'll note that I used a different font and colored font in my post. I do that as a way of individualiziung my posts. Also, back before I integrated one of my alters posted in all lower case. If she was feeling especially frightened she posted in itty-bitty sized letters.

I'm with George on this one. If communication takes place, that's what's important. Yes, some folks have ways of expressing themselves here that grate on my nerves, but that's on me.

I've not posted here because this subject is extremely sensitive for me. You see all my life I have been found wanting in this area. To me English is schizophrenic. How it is pronounced doesn't follow the spelling, spelling has so many exceptions I can not remember them all. Grammar, that too is full of bizarre rules. Being profoundly hearing impaired since age 3 and taught in a regular school with no accommodations except one on one speech and a number of teachers who believed I should be institutionalized has done a number on my self esteem.

I don't mind those who correct my speech in a helpful way but those who act like valley girls, judgmental, hurt to the quick. Those that assume I'm deficit in intelligentsia because of my grammar or spelling also cuts me down.

In grade school where you learn the basics of grammar I was regulated to the side of the classroom and given books to read. I have tried so many times to learn those things that to others are more important than the content of a message. I've come to the conclusion I have an emotional block that filters my ability to learn based on how I was treated as a child in school where I wanted to learn as was told I was too stupid. Not by my peers, not at first, but by the teachers. The did not always say this in words but it was quite clear in how they treated me. I was a waste of there time. It was not expected that I would graduate from high school much less go on to college. Nevertheless I have internalized the message that I am not worth anyone's time.

Getting constantly judged when I have something to say has left me with the feeling that I have no worth or purpose in existing. The message that is received is that if you are not perfect in your elocution or writing abilities you have nothing worth while to say, no reason for living.

Yes, many say they have exceptions for those who have disabilities or typing flaws, but do they really? How are you to know of those disabilities when the majority of them are hidden? People do not know of my hearing problem apron meeting me. Most often I'm met with disbelief, but you talk so well. You understand me so well. Well the first is less than perfect and the result of 10 years of one-on-one speech therapy, the second is the result of constant vigilance. Reading lips is an imperfect skill since so many words look the same, it is also the ability to read body language and make cognitive jumps to connect the parts that were understood. I do not "hear" so much as I deduce what is being said.

Policing another persons attempt at communication is filled with judgment, intolerance, and arrogance. Perhaps those that do so are perfect in this area but I'm quite sure they have weaknesses in others and should perhaps be Leary of throwing rocks in glass houses. But mostly I think the grammar police are insecure, why else must they 'correct' others except to boost their own self esteem but putting others down? It is not in the interest of communication, most of them are not offering to show the correct way to say what was meant, just insulting the person who wrote it. Like many here have said, it distracts from the conversation.

I'm not trying to be judgmental of those who really have a hard time with the language of others, just trying to put my perspective of this subject. If someone's grammar offends, just ignore it. Please.

Something that bugs me is when people who only stay in chat, want people to speak lite typing here. Chat is by nature not pure text based. Chat is the best representation of normal speech. It means you don't have to be correct, actually saying you are typing in chat is wrong, you are talking. Once in a while, chatters would sign out by signing chat as they would a letter. They need a good slapping around.

I'm sorry, but I thought I specified those things bothered me in a professional email. For chat, forums, and email to friends, all but the yellow font and tiny font is fine by me, and I might add, I don't feel it necessary to tell people if they mispell words in the three venues I stated above (I am fluent in 'typo') nor do I correct grammar.

As far as all caps, again, in a professional venue it is generally considered inappropriate and unnecessary as italics and bold are offered for the purpose of emphasis.

Just sayin'.

In chat once someone took me aside and told me "nicely" I had some stupid verb wrong. Because I wanted to learn the correct way? Right?

Eh... no. How is it "less embarrassing" to be corrected in a private message? It wasn't embarrassing at all, actually. I make mistakes. I don't sweat it. If I did I would never have learned all the languages I know.

Very well said. I agree totally, and also know a great deal of how you feel regarding your hearing impairment. I have been deaf in one ear and have minimal hearing in the other after an accident I suffered in a pool when I was a child. I've been reading lips ever since, and for the most part, no one realises that I'm not really hearing what they're saying--and I agree, it does involve total body language, not just lip movements to 'deduce' whats being said.

I admire you for your strength...and I hope you know, in spite of what your emotions sometimes may tell you, you are very respected and appreciated here...as well as, (I have no doubt), anyone with whom you've come in contact.

Laura, is that you?

While I do struggle with certain words I often seek out articles on how to pronounce certain words, not that I can always remember when I need to! This leads to articles like this one below, I love wit and satire and have no problem laughing at myself as long as others are laughing with me not at me.

The idiot's guide to pronouncing "nuclear" and other difficult words (satire)

You are an excellent communicator

From The Guardian: 8 pronunciation errors that made the English language what it is today

"Wasp used to be waps; bird used to be brid and horse used to be hros. Remember this when the next time you hear someone complaining about aks for ask or nucular for nuclear, or even perscription. It's called metathesis, and it's a very common, perfectly natural process."

On this community I don't correct anyone because as you say, it could be embarrassing.

Do you remember a couple of years ago when the "a" key on my computer fell off? I had to substitute "@" until I got a new computer. Nobody here s@id @nything @t @ll @bout me using "@" @ll the time. In f@ct when I did disclose why I w@s posting in such @n odd m@nner some people here s@id they noticed the ch@nge but thought perh@ps I h@d developed @n OCD or something. Too funny!

I loved this article. Thanks.

i admit to a great fondness for Spell Checker. i used to be a whiz, but alas, brain farts are all too common these days~ i'm still the spelling police, if i think the person would LIKE to know the right spelling, but just wanted to get the idea across more. sometimes i overstep.

as you can see, i gave up on the 'correct' use of Capitol Letters, some time ago. blame MS Word, if you will. i would go totally phonetic, if i thought i could get away with it ~ and that cunyau ~ that little wave of my fingers or tilt of my head,,, i think punctuation is for conveying information~!

what a lovely thread, even if it did start as a Rant ... thanks to all who post~
Gus

if i am eating with one hand and typing with the other caps and punctuation go out the window

Both my grammars are dead.

no i does not matters to me.