I attended a conference on Friday for all the psychiatrists in the city. I was asked to make a presentation about wait times for services from a patient's perspective. I was terrified - another story. But I can't say enough how much I felt I thrived amongst a room full of intellectuals. It was positively delightful to have intelligent conversations for a change.

Sure I get some of that here but it isn't the same without the face to face component of dialogue.

I realized it has been about 4years since I was able to talk intelligently about things other than how I feel, my illness, or how I am coping. I realise now too, how much people tend to talk down to me.

I had a wonderful conversation with my psychiatrist as an equal instead of as a patient. And numerous one on one conversations - including with government reps - about my experiences.

While I think the conference won't change anything, it was such a positive opportunity for me.

How do the rest of you get on with talking to other people? Has your illness affected how others treat you? Do you sometimes feel isolated from having intelligent conversation? For those of you who are isolated, do you feel limited in what conversations you do get to have?

[Shaly78]

Five minute rule, if a therapist or pdoc hasn't called my name or gotten me then I'm up to the window asking about my appointment slot. It doesn't matter if they have no other patients and can go over time. It is about being prompt!

I read about how there is this push for people to enter therapy. Yes, there are wait time just like with anything else. It can be that way for dental or appointments with medical doctors.

You get what you get, it doesn't have to be intelligent. Take the positive with the negative. It can be reinvigorating to have those ones to boost self esteem

[*Laurie*]

My ability to have intelligent conversation has been impaired by many years on psych meds. I often cannot think of a word I need or the best way to articulate my thoughts. I am also frequently sleepy (another med side effect, or an insomnia issue) - which also affects my language skills. I don't socialize very much because doing so takes an immense amount of energy. I'm a really good listener, though - listening is a lot easier for me than making conversation is.

I don`t like to hold any type of conversation now, as I stutter over and over and often repeat the same words once I get them out. I am guessing a lot of it is anxiety but my p-doc thinks I may have had a stroke. So. I more or less keep my mouth shut and my wife does the talking for me when I get all worked up.

[eskielover]

I didn't grow up with parents who knew how to have intelligent conversations. I remember even in grade school envying those kids who knew what was going on & could have intelligent conversations about current events with the teacher.

I went from living with parents to married when I was 21 & junior in college. Thought intelligent husband would help but in reality he was narrowly focused. Even in my engineering career, Conversations were mostly about work tho at least they were intelligent.

By the end of living 33 years in the bad marriage the only conversations were fighting. I was still craving being able to be around intelligent people who could just have a normal let alone intelligent conversation.

I finally left & moved 2100 miles away & started a new life. First thing I did was get involved in the library book club. Read the book & once a month discussed what we read. I was so shocked that I retained what I read & was able to discuss it in the group setting. Sort of proving to myself that I wasn't as incompetent as I thought I was. I am now surrounded by intelligent people who know how to have normal conversations. For so long I thought I had the inability to have the discussions but realize now that it was my surroundings not just me that was the problem.

[MiddayNap]

Speaking with others can be quite a chore sometimes, regardless of the topic.
I don't feel qualified to label which are and which aren't "intelligent" as, really, I am quite dense myself. I shall therefore take the liberty of replacing the word "intelligent" with "stimulating" for reasons explained in my self-deprecating remark.
I do enjoy stimulating conversation, as I'm sure most do, but it can be quite hard to come by when no one seems to share your interests. I tend to become infatuated with things that aren't necessarily useful in any way, so the lack of interesting confabulation is really my own fault. These hobbies can, however, come in quite handy when someone asks a question about them , rare though these instances may be. At least,they would if anyone took me seriously. Being a young woman, I do not have to rely upon a mental illness to receive condescension from others. Between all of my shopping and boy-talk, how could I possibly have time for things like thinking? Why ask a person you so clearly think to be intellectually inferior anyway? This vexes me so.

I've had to read this comment about sixty times to ensure its coherency, a task much less easily performed during spoken dialogue. Yes, the give-and-take pattern is simple, but I've so many thoughts that wish to burst out all at once. Getting those rambunctious things to line up single-file can be quite difficult. At least in messages such as these, I am able to just type whatever pushes its way out first, then cut and paste and rearrange in whatever way is the least scatter-brained.
I've no idea if I've even answered your question. I've rambled on so much 'twould be a shame if I didn't.

[Pikku Myy]

Glad you got thru it

[MiddayNap]

Originally Posted by eskielover

I didn't grow up with parents who knew how to have intelligent conversations. I remember even in grade school envying those kids who knew what was going on & could have intelligent conversations about current events with the teacher.

Do you mean that your parents spoke only of things inconsequential, or that they were poor conversationalists in general?
I would like to say I can relate, if only a little bit.
My parents and brothers oft would tell me I thought I was smarter than everyone else, despite having never said this. That would be a delusional statement, to say the least. It was as though intelligence was not welcome. It was a nuisance. I was a nuisance.
Suffice it to say "intelligent conversation" was not something I had the luxury of.
And really, I know I can be a bit off-putting. I'm as opinionated as I am blunt with a dark sense of humor, a tongue for sarcasm, and a mind that never stops analyzing even the slightest detail. I can imagine such a child would be a bit tiring.

By intelligent conversation I meant something more than talking to me about my illness and feelings. It seems like everyone dumbs it down in my presence. I miss talking about books and politics. News and current events. The intricacies of life. I miss being treated as though I were someone's equal. I miss being asked for my input and opinion. And this was what I valued by the experience at the conference.

there's only a few people on earth i've been able to have a real conversation with. i'm quiet and take a while to form sentences so even in "trivial" conversations i'm looked down upon. all i have in my life right now that's not internet-based is work, and there's a 20 year minimum age gap between me and everyone else. i'm a child to them. a stupid, distracted child at that, and my coworkers make sure i know it. it's completely destroyed my ability to hold a conversation or even form relationships at all. i don't have a single friend irl.

i usually just stick to things i'm comfortable with and know a lot about in a conversation. so basically just video games. tv shows. if i talk about programming. metaphysics, artificial intelligence, art, anything i'm even remotely interested in but couldn't ace a trivia contest over on the spot, i'll freeze up and look like an even bigger moron.

maybe it's just because my parents never talked to each other except to throw things or cry. maybe it's a lifetime of emotional abuse and being made to feel inferior. maybe i'm just a damn introvert. whoknowsman. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Originally Posted by rcat

By intelligent conversation I meant something more than talking to me about my illness and feelings. It seems like everyone dumbs it down in my presence. I miss talking about books and politics. News and current events. The intricacies of life. I miss being treated as though I were someone's equal. I miss being asked for my input and opinion. And this was what I valued by the experience at the conference.

Ah, now I get what you meant by "intelligent conversation". I guess that's the opposite of the banter-filled small talk that people normally do around here where I live.

Although normally people just pass by me and say "Hi how are ya..." and faster than I could say "Not too bad..." they are already gone. I used to get offended ("How dare them ask about me and not stay to hear the answer?!"), now I'm ok with that and I even find it funny sometimes.

But ah, conversations... I cannot remember when was the last time I had a proper conversation with anyone.

I don't know if it's because I'm not very PC, or because my opinions are a bit on the "radical" side of the scale and that scares people away (oh, you don't want to hear what I think of certain current events...), or because I'm too passionate and eloquent when I speak, or because I have such a wicked sense of humour and make quite inappropriate jokes sometimes... maybe it's all my fault? Maybe it's not.

I tend to think that, if people are dumbing it down for me, it's because they just can't keep up with me and then they try to find an elegant way out for themselves, and not because they think I'm dumb. But maybe I'm that delusional? Boy, I hope I'm not!

I think I might have developed a kind of a "defense mechanism" that I use to shield myself from the negatives of life. If I'm not treated the way I think I deserve to be treated, or if no one asks my opinion, or if no one seems to care, I just smile and softly, gently say to myself: "To hell with them!".

My wife says I make a kind of a "stern face" when I talk about certain things and people think I'm angry. Wow, I should work on that. Make it even angrier, perhaps?

Either way, I'm at that point when I don't care much for that anymore. Or maybe I do?

Anyway, I'm glad that that conference talk worked for you!

A few people have suggested it's what you grow up with. I myself grew up in a family of academics - a philospher and a political scientist. I suppose then you can imagine what dinner conversation looked like. My father was also an Anglican (Episcopal) priest. Expectations placed upon my brother and I were really high. We were expected to know international current events and answer mom's barrage of nightly questions. She was quite the bully and I forever lived in fear of having the wrong answer.

[JaGo]

Have you tried engaging others in these kind of intellectual topics? Or do you find that even when you do that, they respond by talking down to you?

One problem is the people I now associate with. I have no friends.

When I encounter family, they have such conversations in front of me. Whenever I try to participate they either change the subject to something mundane or dumb it down.

At my (outpatient at the hospital) activity, walking and yoga groups, the coversation is dumbed down to - I'm sorry I sound so rude - the lowest common denominator. We talk about basically tv, Walmart, and celebrities. Any attempt I make to change the subject to a little more heady stuff (such as upcoming Remembrance Day) is met with confusion.

It is similar at my Support Group. Obviously conversation is about our feelings and experiences but before and afterwards we engage in chit chat. I don't want to hear about children being constipated, Dungeons and Dragons, and finger nail polish.

I want to hear about what book just got read, the issues in our recent election, what's in the News, what art have you been working on, how is work going, etc.

[The_little_didgee]

Originally Posted by rcat

At my (outpatient at the hospital) activity, walking and yoga groups, the coversation is dumbed down to - I'm sorry I sound so rude - the lowest common denominator. We talk about basically tv, Walmart, and celebrities. Any attempt I make to change the subject to a little more heady stuff (such as upcoming Remembrance Day) is met with confusion.

It is similar at my Support Group. Obviously conversation is about our feelings and experiences but before and afterwards we engage in chit chat. I don't want to hear about children being constipated, Dungeons and Dragons, and finger nail polish.

Yikes, that is brutal. I feel for you. Walmart??? What is there to discuss?

Have you looked into social groups that have nothing to do with psychiatry/mental illness? What about taking a university class for mature students? What about joining a book club?

Little Didgee - you're right. I can't sit here and languish hoping that fruitful conversation is going to happen. I am considering a book club. I just now need to find one topical to my interests. I think that is a very useful idea about a class. The next term doesn't start till after Christmas but maybe I might be able to find a history class I can audit for free.